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Old 10-18-2007, 04:55 PM   #1
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I am confused about one thing I guess. I see that many ladies/gents conditioner-wash with CG conditioners (no cones, no proteins, etc.), but then use products with cones and polyquats and proteins in them. They very rarely mention using shampoo (unless it is a sulfate-free shampoo). For example, most of the Garnier Fructis leave-ins and L'Oreal products have cones in them, I think, yet many people use them and then either only water or conditioner wash.

My question is:

(1) How are you getting these styling products out of your hair if you are only washing with conditioner?

I feel like I must be missing something that is so obvious to everyone else. Please don't think I am dumb, as I have read the Curly Girl book, and I have been reading on this site for a few months, as well as interacting with many of you....I do love this website!

Thanks for your input.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:00 PM   #2
 
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I guess I'm the first to answer! Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think it basically has to do with how prone your hair is to build up and what builds up on it or not. Some people can use certain cones such as amodimethicone or polyquats and feel that a co-wash gets it out.
I find that I can use certain polyquats and not get buildup but amodimethicone sticks to my hair like glue!
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:05 PM   #3
 
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Protein is not anti-CG. People following the CG routine are encouraged to use protein (per Lorraine Massey).

But you are right about the other part. Conditioner washes will not remove cones (unless they are the two water-soluable kinds).

I think there is a lot of confusion and denial going on. LOL
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:57 PM   #4
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Protein is not anti-CG. People following the CG routine are encouraged to use protein (per Lorraine Massey).

But you are right about the other part. Conditioner washes will not remove cones (unless they are the two water-soluable kinds).

I think there is a lot of confusion and denial going on. LOL
Unfortunately, I have to agree with this part.

People also use conditioning shampoos that contain polyquats that that very shampoo is unable to remove. I had this issue with Elasta QP Creme Conditioning Shampoo, and Creme of Nature. Nice at first, particularly the Elasta QP, but then I started to notice my hair was feeling more built up after shampooing than when I co-washed. Judging by the ingredients list, Deva Low Poo is exactly the same.

I now use shampoos to clarify ( I use products with polyquats, dimethicone and amodimethicone) that are cocamidopropyl betaine based with *very* short ingredient lists, and no specifically conditioning ingredients.
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:05 PM   #5
 
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I don't know. I'm just helping you set the record.

I'm still a new CG and haven't quite figured it all out so I'm still avoiding cones, polyquats, & proteins.
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:36 PM   #6
 
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Maybe cones and polyquats and what have you really don't build up on everyone's hair. Maybe some alleged CG-friendly products or ingredients actually do build up on some peoples' hair. Maybe there is some buildup from cones but the level of buildup is such that it does wash away eventually with water and/or cowashes. If you use some cones for a period and then discontinue using them for awhile but you still only cowash, I doubt that you'll be taking those cones to your grave. Perhaps each individual's very unique head of hair responds differently to the vast array of curly cocktails each uses.

I often see posts wherein people will say they just haven't been having good hair days or their hair just hasn't been curling the way they it used to or it's been frizzy, and then I look in their signature line and lo and behold they're following the CG routine! Maybe their hair needs a good cone treatment!
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:55 PM   #7
 
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Proteins, polyquats and water-soluble cones are considered CG friendly. If they use non water-soluble cones then that would be modified CG friendly. Wether they use shampoo or not is their problem.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:13 PM   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuicyTube
Proteins, polyquats and water-soluble cones are considered CG friendly. If they use non water-soluble cones then that would be modified CG friendly. Wether they use shampoo or not is their problem.
Not all polyquats are considered CG friendly. In fact, most aren't- they suit modified CG ers using cocobetaine or cocamidopropyl betaine shampoos. Conditioner is not going to get them out of anyone's hair.
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Old 10-18-2007, 07:25 PM   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmkenny
Maybe cones and polyquats and what have you really don't build up on everyone's hair. Maybe some alleged CG-friendly products or ingredients actually do build up on some peoples' hair. Maybe there is some buildup from cones but the level of buildup is such that it does wash away eventually with water and/or cowashes. If you use some cones for a period and then discontinue using them for awhile but you still only cowash, I doubt that you'll be taking those cones to your grave. Perhaps each individual's very unique head of hair responds differently to the vast array of curly cocktails each uses.

I often see posts wherein people will say they just haven't been having good hair days or their hair just hasn't been curling the way they it used to or it's been frizzy, and then I look in their signature line and lo and behold they're following the CG routine! Maybe their hair needs a good cone treatment!
I agree that some supposedly CG stuff can build up- a lot of CG friendly leave ins do that on my hair. In that respect you're correct, a lot depends on your hair's porosity- some people's hair is very porous and clings to ingredients making them much harder to remove from the hair. Also some people's hair has a very low porosity and does not abosrb products well, resulting in some build up on the surface of the hair.

However, it's just a fact that some ingredients will not wash out with any conditioner-their chemical nature just makes this impossible. Try co-washing out vaseline for instance.

I think the people with the hair issues in your last paragraph are probably some of the same folk the OP referred to, who think they are on CG but not. Or maybe they simply haven't found the right products for their curls. And perhaps they could benefit from cones- my hair responds very well to amodimethicone, but I know from experience that I need to keep shampoo in the mix, at least here and there.
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Old 10-18-2007, 08:08 PM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeamaria
I agree that some supposedly CG stuff can build up- a lot of CG friendly leave ins do that on my hair. In that respect you're correct, a lot depends on your hair's porosity- some people's hair is very porous and clings to ingredients making them much harder to remove from the hair. Also some people's hair has a very low porosity and does not abosrb products well, resulting in some build up on the surface of the hair.
And this is exactly why I shampoo. I think because my hair is colored and highlighted, it is so porous that everything clings to it. Even when I have been very strict about avoiding all cones and polyquats, my hair still ends up feeling like it's full of buildup. Once I shampoo, it feels great again. Co-washing never made my hair feel clean no matter how religious I was about avoiding everything. Now, I just try to stay away from most cones, harsh sulfates, use sulfate-free shampoos in between the sulfate pooing and just not shampoo my hair as often -- and lots of DTs!
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Old 10-18-2007, 11:23 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unpoof
I am confused about one thing I guess. I see that many ladies/gents conditioner-wash with CG conditioners (no cones, no proteins, etc.), but then use products with cones and polyquats and proteins in them. They very rarely mention using shampoo (unless it is a sulfate-free shampoo). For example, most of the Garnier Fructis leave-ins and L'Oreal products have cones in them, I think, yet many people use them and then either only water or conditioner wash.

My question is:

(1) How are you getting these styling products out of your hair if you are only washing with conditioner?

I feel like I must be missing something that is so obvious to everyone else. Please don't think I am dumb, as I have read the Curly Girl book, and I have been reading on this site for a few months, as well as interacting with many of you....I do love this website!

Thanks for your input.
well, i am one of these people--i wash w suave naturals and only use shampoo before coloring about once every 5 wks or so. i usually put jojoba oil in wet hair before swimming. then i cowash and use one of the GF CO's as a leavein. i do not seem to get buildup at all.


here is the list for GF length and strength:
Ingredients
Aqua Water , Cetyl Alcohol , PEG-180 , Behentrimonium Chloride , Pyrus Malus Apple Fruit Extract , Amodimethicone , Parfum Fragrance , Cetyl Esters , Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone , Methylparaben , Hydroxyethylcellulose , Lanolin , Niacinamide , Pyridoxine HCL , Trideceth-12 , Citric Acid , Saccharum Officinarum Sugar Cane Extract , Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride , Cetrimonium Chloride , Linalool , Citrus Limonum Lemon Peel Extract , Camellia Sinensis Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract

so it has amodimethicone and that other funky thing but my hair is pretty consistent with this or any GF CO.

here is curl and shine
Aqua Water , Cetearyl Alcohol , Amodimethicone , Potato Starch Modified , Behentrimonium Chloride , Pyrus Malus Apple Fruit Extract , Parfum Fragrance , Cetyl Esters , Methylparaben , Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone , Persea Gratissima Avocado Oil , Trideceth-6 , Niacinamide , Pyridoxine HCL , Citric Acid , Prunus Armeniaca Apricot Kernel Oil , Saccharum Officinarum Sugar Cane Extract , Cetrimonium Chloride , Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride , Poloxamer 407 , Dodecene , Linalool , Butylphenyl Methylpropional , Dimethyl Tin Dineodecyl Ester , Citrus
Limonum Lemon Peel Extract , Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract


and sleek n shine

Ingredients
Water Aqua , Cetyl Alcohol , Behentrimonium Chloride , Amodimethicone , Apple Fruit Extract Pyrus Malus , Fragrance Parfum , Cetyl Esters , Lauryl PEG/PPG-18/18 Methicone , Methylparaben , Avocado Oil Persea Gratissima , Niacinamide , Pyridoxine HCL , Trideceth-12 , Citric Acid , Apricot Kernel Oil Prunus Armeniaca , Sugar Cane Extract Saccharum Officinarum , Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride , Cetrimonium Chloride , Linalool , Butylphenyl Methylpropional , Lemon Peel Extract Citrus Limonum , Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract Camellia Sinensis


dry and damaged
Ingredients
Water Aqua , Cetyl Alcohol , PEG-180 , Behentrimonium Chloride , Amodimethicone , Pyrus Malus Apple Fruit Extract , Fragrance , Cetyl Esters , Lauryl PEG-PPG-18 18 Methicone , Methylparaben , Hydroxyethylcellulose , Lanolin , Niacinamide , Pyridoxine HCI , Trideceth-12 , Citric Acid , Saccharum Officinarum Sugar Cane Extract , Chlorhexidine Dihydrochloride , Cetrimonium Chloride , Citrus Limonum Lemon Peel Extract , Camellia Sinensis Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract

as you can see these ingredient lists are quite similar. My hair reacts pretty much the same to all of them. some get buildup w the amo, but so far so good for me.
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:28 AM   #12
 
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okay i must be a total dork because i have no idea what record you are talking about, someone please tell me
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:56 AM   #13
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I think it comes down to trial and error. 'cause what works for you may not work for someone else!! I use J/A/S/O/N organic shampoo and conditioner that are sufate and 'cone free but occasionally I'll mix the shampoo with Sauve shampoo if my hair is getting gross or something. I shampoo usually once a week or whenever my hair needs it.

The products I use daily are all Biloage (hyrdating mousse, gel, leave-in conditioner and reconstructing cream) and I've stopped trying to read/decifier the labels because they work well for me.

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Old 10-19-2007, 07:40 AM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmkenny
Maybe cones and polyquats and what have you really don't build up on everyone's hair. Maybe some alleged CG-friendly products or ingredients actually do build up on some peoples' hair. Maybe there is some buildup from cones but the level of buildup is such that it does wash away eventually with water and/or cowashes. If you use some cones for a period and then discontinue using them for awhile but you still only cowash, I doubt that you'll be taking those cones to your grave. Perhaps each individual's very unique head of hair responds differently to the vast array of curly cocktails each uses.

I often see posts wherein people will say they just haven't been having good hair days or their hair just hasn't been curling the way they it used to or it's been frizzy, and then I look in their signature line and lo and behold they're following the CG routine! Maybe their hair needs a good cone treatment!
Cones aren't the issue. It's the harsh detergents (sulfates, etc.) in so many shampoos that destroy curly hair. I believe most hair likes cones. But the curlier types do not like the sulfates needed to remove most of the cones and te other nonwater-soluable ingredients in some of these products (beeswax, petrolatum, lanolin, mineral oil, etc.)

One problem is that some wavies have been told they are curly...and would benefit from CG. But CG is more for truly curly, dryish, brittle, fragile curly hair. Some of the women here who are trying the CG routine are just a step or two away from straight hair. And the problems with dryness, dullness, brittlness, don't apply to them and don't need to be "fixed" with the CG routine.

Another problem is that choosing the right techniqies and product combinations is all trial and error. CG may be a good routine for a particular person, but not every CG-friendly product will be, like jeamaria said. These CG products are all very different because there are so many types of curly hair...different textures, porosity levels, thicknesses, curl pattern, etc.
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Old 10-19-2007, 09:38 AM   #15
 
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Hi I am new to this site and from Ireland, what are yee on about and where did ye get this information from, i saw the book on a link from this page but it is not available in Ireland
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:50 PM   #16
 
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I generally only use products that don't have cones & polyquats don't build up on me. If I do use cones, it's a-cone & it takes about a month of daily use before it builds up. I suppose I'm modified CG anyway- I poo whenever I color & if my hair feels like it needs it.

Strict CG doesn't work for everyone just like cones don't work for everyone. Everyone is different so whatever works for your hair is what you should do.
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Old 10-20-2007, 07:38 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliviasul
Hi I am new to this site and from Ireland, what are yee on about and where did ye get this information from, i saw the book on a link from this page but it is not available in Ireland
Hi Welcome to the site! Many people on here are talking about a hair care routine that can be very specific. Such as no harsh cleansers in their shampoo (if they use shampoo at all) and no silicones in their styling products.
I'm sorry that the book isn't available in Ireland, would it be possible for you to order it from Amazon.com or the like?
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:02 PM   #18
 
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I hardly ever shampoo my hair and I pay no attention to what is in my hair products. Currently I'm using VO5 mousse, Fruictis gel, BTZ Noodle Head, Redkin Curl Former, some shine stuff, and some other gel stuff. After reading this thread I thought maybe I might have build up and maybe a shampoo is in order. I used Jessiecurl cream cleanser and had a devil of a time getting all the shampoo out - it took forever and was a complete pain in the butt. I guess it really depends on hair type.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:34 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by banjocurl
well, i am one of these people--i wash w suave naturals and only use shampoo before coloring about once every 5 wks or so. i usually put jojoba oil in wet hair before swimming. then i cowash and use one of the GF CO's as a leavein. i do not seem to get buildup at all.
banjocurl, I don't think you are "one of those people" you're clarifying every 5 weeks I got the impression the OP was referring to people on strict CG in the sense that they don't ever shampoo, use non cg products.
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Old 10-20-2007, 05:40 PM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papayahed
I hardly ever shampoo my hair and I pay no attention to what is in my hair products. Currently I'm using VO5 mousse, Fruictis gel, BTZ Noodle Head, Redkin Curl Former, some shine stuff, and some other gel stuff. After reading this thread I thought maybe I might have build up and maybe a shampoo is in order. I used Jessiecurl cream cleanser and had a devil of a time getting all the shampoo out - it took forever and was a complete pain in the butt. I guess it really depends on hair type.
I agree with the bolded. I think it's also a matter of time, for some people buildup occurs within a matter of days, some people several months. How often do you define "hardly ever"?

Also, I was thinking maybe some people actually like the effect of the buildup on their hair. Especially with certain silicones, it might give a smoothing effect which products that rinse more cleanly might not be able to provide. So providing they rinse often enough/don't exceed a certain amount of product, maybe the build up is just enough to promote manageability, without causing gunky/suffocated/weighed down/greasy hair.
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