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Old 04-05-2009, 09:23 PM   #41
 
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Wow, I didn't know it would bring about so much just to say that Everpure removes cones!
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Old 04-06-2009, 04:00 AM   #42
 
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Wow, I didn't know it would bring about so much just to say that Everpure removes cones!
I've had that Curly Chemist article copied into my notes about CG and what needs what to remove it but was so confused because it went against the Deva philosophy so I didn't even bother trying to figure it out...I just avoided cones all together...URGGHH this is complicated.
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Old 04-06-2009, 07:41 AM   #43
 
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Originally Posted by lazy loops View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaa00a View Post
Does this mean that ingredients like...
Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane
Decamethylcyclotetrasiloxane
Hexamethylcyclotrisiloxane

are cowashable??

Because they give me such incredible, unimaginable shine.
What in the world? Where did you find these?
I still haven't seen these cyclomethicones in any products.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:23 AM   #44
 
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Are you kidding me??! Since I low poo twice a week and co-wash in between, I can use any cone I want and it won't build up?!!! This is like Christmas in April!!!
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:53 AM   #45
 
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Are you kidding me??! Since I low poo twice a week and co-wash in between, I can use any cone I want and it won't build up?!!! This is like Christmas in April!!!
You betcha sure seems that way!!! Imagine all the possibilities........Endless.......
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:03 AM   #46
 
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Sarah this thread got dug up again because of the Everpure thread started by Tinah. If you can memorize this you're all set! This taken from Curly Chemist http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...p-on-silicones

Recommended cleansing agents

Dimethicone

SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Dimethiconol


SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Phenyl Trimethicone


SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Amodimethicone

SLS, SLES, cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, ALS, or ALES

Cyclomethicone

cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, other mild surfactants, or conditioner washing

PEG-modified dimethicone-Water Soluble

cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, other mild surfactants, or conditioner washing

Dimethicone copolyol-Water Soluble

cocamidopropyl betaine, cocobetaine, other mild surfactants, or conditioner washing


So what I get from this is: You can use Water Soluble Cones with co-washing. If you Low Poo you can use any Cone to hearts content!!!!
Didn't we already know this? It's just the non-water-soluble ones that need low-poo or regular poo. <scratching head>
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:34 AM   #47
 
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Didn't we already know this? It's just the non-water-soluble ones that need low-poo or regular poo. <scratching head>
For the most part I guess we knew this. For me it was the XANE part of it that was new...
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:39 AM   #48
 
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Didn't we already know this? It's just the non-water-soluble ones that need low-poo or regular poo. <scratching head>
For the most part I guess we knew this. For me it was the XANE part of it that was new...
This is the part I was referring to as well. I have a cream-based serum called Magical Serum (or something like that) that I just love and I hardly ever use it because I assumed I'd need sulfates to remove the XANE cone in it. If I'm understanding all of this correctly, low poo WILL remove this?

ETA: By low poo, I mean NO SLS or SLES, ALS, etc., etc.
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Old 04-06-2009, 02:12 PM   #49
 
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Can someone dumb this down for me in a recap? Jillipoo, I know your real good at teaching.

Are we saying Xanes aren't bad?
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:10 PM   #50
 
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Originally Posted by SephirothsChild15 View Post
Can someone dumb this down for me in a recap? Jillipoo, I know your real good at teaching.

Are we saying Xanes aren't bad?
Sorry -- actually had to *work* today! (The gall of my employer...)

Yes, I believe we are saying that 'xanes aren't bad. Not necessarily *good* though, either, because although they evaporate, they do stay on the hair for a little bit, and for the extra sensitive among us, that period of time might be enough to make a difference. (It's like how amodimethicone affects some people but not others.)

If you are a low-poo person (which means you use shampoo with cocamidopropyl betaine instead of SLS, basically), you can use any silicone or xane that you want. But if you want to use only conditioner to wash your hair, you would do best to avoid everything but cyclomethicone, PEG-modified dimethicone, and dimethicone copolyol.

That's my take, anyway.
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Old 04-06-2009, 10:49 PM   #51
 
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O my! This is head-spinning new info! I am just back to the CG routine for the second time and I was sad to see my lovely Pantene go because it gave me gorgeous curls, but I DO get weighed down easily if I use it every day.

Argh. I am sooo confused - I have a few bottles of conditioners that have 'cones lying around still because I can't bear to throw them out. I am tempted to pick up a bottle of a low-poo so I can use them now and again until they're used up.
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:10 PM   #52
 
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I have stalked this board for years (not months) and recently decided to go CG and spent a crap-ton of cash on new products.

Now I am so utterly confused I want to scream! However, I have come to the conclusion that if I don't want to low poo then I still have to stay away from Cones & Xanes (except of course the water soluble ones) but if I chose to use a product with cones I can wash it out with a low poo - which is good in the rare event I want to straighten my hair. Other than that, I haven't got a clue. Don't most other sources state that you need sulfates to wash out most cones?

http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/pro...ngredients.htm
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:20 PM   #53
 
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http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/pro...ngredients.htm

Silicones
Silicones generally end in -cone, -conol, -col, or -xane and are found in many hair products. If any silicone name has the abbreviation "PEG" in front of it, however, it is water-soluble and will not build up.

Silicones that are not soluble in water, will consistently build up on the hair and will require a sulfate-based shampoo to remove include:

Cetearyl Methicone
Cetyl Dimethicone
Cyclomethicone
Cyclopentasiloxane
Dimethicone
Dimethiconol
Stearyl Dimethicone
Trimethylsilylamodimethicone.

These are the silicones to be avoided at all costs!

Silicones that are slightly soluble in water, but can possibly build up on some types of curly hair over time include:

Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 (and) Cetrimonium Chloride (as a mixture in the bottle)
Amodimethicone
Behenoxy Dimethicone
Stearoxy Dimethicone

Although not the best choice, these silicones can be used cautiously and can usually be removed with a baking soda clarification routine (see Home Remedies).

Silicones that are soluble in water and can generally be considered safe to use (in addition to those listed with "PEG" in front of them) include:

Dimethicone Copolyol
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein
Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
Lauryl Methicone Copolyol

Just thought I'd post this for easier reading....
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:21 PM   #54
 
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I'm starting to wonder if ONCE AGAIN porosity, texture have a bearing on this....
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:45 PM   #55
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEL2C View Post
http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/pro...ngredients.htm

Silicones
Silicones generally end in -cone, -conol, -col, or -xane and are found in many hair products. If any silicone name has the abbreviation "PEG" in front of it, however, it is water-soluble and will not build up.

Silicones that are not soluble in water, will consistently build up on the hair and will require a sulfate-based shampoo to remove include:

Cetearyl Methicone
Cetyl Dimethicone
Cyclomethicone
Cyclopentasiloxane
Dimethicone
Dimethiconol
Stearyl Dimethicone
Trimethylsilylamodimethicone.

These are the silicones to be avoided at all costs!

Silicones that are slightly soluble in water, but can possibly build up on some types of curly hair over time include:

Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 (and) Cetrimonium Chloride (as a mixture in the bottle)
Amodimethicone
Behenoxy Dimethicone
Stearoxy Dimethicone

Although not the best choice, these silicones can be used cautiously and can usually be removed with a baking soda clarification routine (see Home Remedies).

Silicones that are soluble in water and can generally be considered safe to use (in addition to those listed with "PEG" in front of them) include:

Dimethicone Copolyol
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein
Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
Lauryl Methicone Copolyol

Just thought I'd post this for easier reading....
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein is a silicone??? WHAT???
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Old 04-07-2009, 03:52 PM   #56
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEL2C View Post
http://www.livecurlylivefree.com/pro...ngredients.htm

Silicones
Silicones generally end in -cone, -conol, -col, or -xane and are found in many hair products. If any silicone name has the abbreviation "PEG" in front of it, however, it is water-soluble and will not build up.

Silicones that are not soluble in water, will consistently build up on the hair and will require a sulfate-based shampoo to remove include:

Cetearyl Methicone
Cetyl Dimethicone
Cyclomethicone
Cyclopentasiloxane
Dimethicone
Dimethiconol
Stearyl Dimethicone
Trimethylsilylamodimethicone.

These are the silicones to be avoided at all costs!

Silicones that are slightly soluble in water, but can possibly build up on some types of curly hair over time include:

Amodimethicone (and) Trideceth-12 (and) Cetrimonium Chloride (as a mixture in the bottle)
Amodimethicone
Behenoxy Dimethicone
Stearoxy Dimethicone

Although not the best choice, these silicones can be used cautiously and can usually be removed with a baking soda clarification routine (see Home Remedies).

Silicones that are soluble in water and can generally be considered safe to use (in addition to those listed with "PEG" in front of them) include:

Dimethicone Copolyol
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein
Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
Lauryl Methicone Copolyol

Just thought I'd post this for easier reading....
Ok, so what are we supposed to believe? This says the cyclo- cones require a sulfate to remove. Does that mean that a low poo won't remove them or what?
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Old 04-07-2009, 04:01 PM   #57
 
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Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein is a silicone??? WHAT???
I have no earthly idea!!

Quote:
Ok, so what are we supposed to believe? This says the cyclo- cones require a sulfate to remove. Does that mean that a low poo won't remove them or what?
This is what so many of us have believed for so long!? I know from past threads many curlies have had a hard time with XANES and build up so it may be an individual thing. Maybe for some a low poo is enough while others whose hair seems to CLING to everything like me and MSG would need an SLS.

There are plenty of products without these questionable ingredients so I'm not exactly running out to explore silicones.....Too risky!!
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Old 04-07-2009, 05:18 PM   #58
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I agree with a lot of post on this site that

It confusing regarding the post and articles
Do help understand what ingridents can cause build up but however in medical field there is a lot of indepent studys being done which have done for short period
Long term studys have not confirm overal affect there forth more studying over years can say for sure wheather or not a silcone product can cause this so called build up

I like my Treesme Remoisturize Silcone - Condionier it actually felt soft again and not itching after trying so many very types as read on this forum - Not insult but I have tried them out when I gone to my local Walmart and pick up a bottle and than by time it night time it really dry.

---I have loreal"yellow
---Generic Garinier - smell good like Gain laundry deter
---VO5 - I love it for the price
---Silk Elements - Brown Bottle - I recommend this PH balance
--- and Condionier is excellent
---I have natural conditonier its called Naked Naturalls
Lavander it actually work a miracle for my dry scalp stop itching thank god it was driving me mad crazy

Than when I switch to Redken the last try out moisturize with Avcodo did wonders


Quote:
Originally Posted by DEL2C View Post
Quote:
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein is a silicone??? WHAT???
I have no earthly idea!!

Quote:
Ok, so what are we supposed to believe? This says the cyclo- cones require a sulfate to remove. Does that mean that a low poo won't remove them or what?
This is what so many of us have believed for so long!? I know from past threads many curlies have had a hard time with XANES and build up so it may be an individual thing. Maybe for some a low poo is enough while others whose hair seems to CLING to everything like me and MSG would need an SLS.

There are plenty of products without these questionable ingredients so I'm not exactly running out to explore silicones.....Too risky!!
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:05 PM   #59
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DEL2C View Post
Silicones that are soluble in water and can generally be considered safe to use (in addition to those listed with "PEG" in front of them) include:

Dimethicone Copolyol
Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein
Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane
Lauryl Methicone Copolyol
It should read Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein Hydroxypropyl Polysiloxane on the same line, not as two individual lines. The two together are a common combination of protein and silicones that are water soluble.

We updated the web site this week and must have made the error. It has been changed back.
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Old 04-07-2009, 07:13 PM   #60
 
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I avoided cyclopentasiloxane not so much because of build up issues, but because it frizzes my hair. I'm guessing the small molecules get under follicles and roughs them up. I am also confused if it needs a sulfate or not.
I do know that cyclomethicone, which might be related to cyclopentasiloxane, but doesn't seem to have the same reaction in me. I equate cyclomethicone with amodimethicone...in that it is a milder non-water soluble. I can use it, but I don't want to over-do it, unless I want to use a sulfate shampoo occasionally.
This all gets confusing at times. I can only go by what works for me. I'm sure everyone's experience is different.
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