Cyclomethicone

A few observations:

Yes, non-water soluble silicones can be drying if you use them, as they do build up on the hair and they do prevent moisture from entering the hair shaft.

As far as "shampoos": “sulfate-free” does not necessarily mean "surfactant-free." For example, many non-sulfate based cleansers contain “cocamidopropyl betaine,” which is a surfactant. However, cocamidopropyl betaine is derived from coconut oil and is therefore not considered harsh like the sulfates; however, it will clarify and remove product build-up because it is still a surfactant.

So, can you use non-water soluble silicones and remove them with a surfactant-based cleanser? Yes, you can. If, however, you only wash your hair once a week, but you rinse, condition and style every day or every other day, you are going to accumulate product buildup on your hair shaft from these silicones, which can potentially dry you out.

I personally would not feel comfortable using any product with non-water soluble silicones on my hair unless I planned to wash it with a surfactant-based cleanser each and every day...which I don't plan on doing any time soon because I do not want to put my hair through that. But that's me...others may feel comfortable doing so.
- Tiffany
Hair Stylist and Curly Hair Specialist - St. Petersburg, FL (Tampa Bay)

Blog: Live Curly, Live Free
Facebook fan page: Live Curly Live Free

Sulfate- and non-water soluble silicone-free since 04/22/2002
3B, brunette: medium texture, low porosity, high density

I'm starting to wonder if ONCE AGAIN porosity, texture have a bearing on this....
Originally Posted by DEL2C
I think it must. I am natrually a 3b (think little orphan Annie) who chemically straightens to be a 2b. I relax my hair maybe twice a year. I haven't in the past 5 months b/c There isn't enough of a difference between the new growth and my regular hair anymore. I have always been a wash and go - rarely straightened it.

What I do know is that for me, with both natural hair and chemically treated hair, I have different reactions to products. I think this must have to do with the chemically induced texture and porosity differences - what I also know is that although the buildup is not as bad on the chemically treated hair as I find it to be on the natural hair, my entire head reacts better and more uniformly when I don't use sulfates/mild surfectants and/or silicones/xanes.

I'm sticking with the CG routine if using my silicones means I have to use a harsh or gentle cleanser on a regular basis. I was doing that for the past 30 years and something wasn't right or else I wouldn't have ended up here.

Last edited by sienna01; 04-07-2009 at 08:54 PM. Reason: sp
I ran across this today and thought it was interesting. It even mentions NC.com by name.

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/question...allergies.aspx
I decided to use a silicone rinse-out conditioner today after all of these posts about it. Well, now I remember why I don't like cones and for me, personally, it has nothing to do with being CG or not -- they just really weigh my hair down and pull out the curl - and this happened with just this one time use. I do like GF Sleek & Shine leave-in, which does have the a-cone, so there are some things I like, but other than that, my hair doesn't seem to really like them. I started using low poo once or twice a week because even when I'm diligent about not using anything that can't be co-washed out, I still get buildup. I'm guessing that's due to high porosity.
http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

I decided to use a silicone rinse-out conditioner today after all of these posts about it. Well, now I remember why I don't like cones and for me, personally, it has nothing to do with being CG or not -- they just really weigh my hair down and pull out the curl - and this happened with just this one time use. I do like GF Sleek & Shine leave-in, which does have the a-cone, so there are some things I like, but other than that, my hair doesn't seem to really like them. I started using low poo once or twice a week because even when I'm diligent about not using anything that can't be co-washed out, I still get buildup. I'm guessing that's due to high porosity.
Originally Posted by msgiblet
Porosity may play into it, but I doubt that's the total answer either. I'm much like you in that have to low poo because I get build-up and weighed down even when watching 'cones, yet my hair's not too porous.
2C/3A/3B - modified CG - med./fine, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, YTCarrots or Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite, KCCC, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

www.fotki.com/auntnett
I decided to use a silicone rinse-out conditioner today after all of these posts about it. Well, now I remember why I don't like cones and for me, personally, it has nothing to do with being CG or not -- they just really weigh my hair down and pull out the curl - and this happened with just this one time use. I do like GF Sleek & Shine leave-in, which does have the a-cone, so there are some things I like, but other than that, my hair doesn't seem to really like them. I started using low poo once or twice a week because even when I'm diligent about not using anything that can't be co-washed out, I still get buildup. I'm guessing that's due to high porosity.
Originally Posted by msgiblet
Porosity may play into it, but I doubt that's the total answer either. I'm much like you in that have to low poo because I get build-up and weighed down even when watching 'cones, yet my hair's not too porous.
Originally Posted by auntnett
Sure wish I could figure out the total answer.
http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

Well, now I remember why I don't like cones and for me, personally, it has nothing to do with being CG or not -- they just really weigh my hair down and pull out the curl - and this happened with just this one time use.
Originally Posted by msgiblet
I've had the same experience. I'll read about 'cones being okay, so I decide to give 'em a try, only to end up with limp, poorly-formed curls (if you can call them curls.) On the rare occasions I do a blow-out, I reach for my 'cone-laden products, but otherwise, they're better left in the deep recesses of py product arsenal.
Hair Type: 3A/3B; natural color; mid-back length.
Shampoo: Shea Moisture Coconut Hibiscus (2 - 3 times/week)
Fave Rinse-Out Conditioners: HE Hello Hydration; Yes to Blueberries; GVP Conditioning Balm;
Styling Routine: Squish-scrunch product /conditioner into soaking wet, upside down hair; plop for 10 minutes, air dry. (Diffuser dry front section.)
Fave Styling Products: KCKT; Tigi Curl Amplifier Creme; Batia & Aleeza gel; Giovanni Sunset Styler; LA Looks Sport Gel.
I ran across this today and thought it was interesting. It even mentions NC.com by name.

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/question...allergies.aspx
Originally Posted by tinah
Well according to that link tinah it says there are NO WATER SOLUBLE Silicones

all silicones are non-water-soluble—there are no exceptions. Some are “heavier” than others, but their physical properties remain consistent, whether you see them listed as dimethicone, cyclomethicone, phenyl trimethicone, and so on. They don't rinse away (in fact they repel water, but water isn't all hair needs to retain moisture), and they are all removed the same way, with detergent cleansers, whether they contain sulphate or not. Sulphates are not required to remove silicone

I don't see how a co-wash would have enough cleansing ability????

msg during the Winter I used a hair spray a couple of time that I used to love before CG. When I used it my hair was horribly weighed down and felt coated and GROSS. It had the XANE in it, I didn't realize this so of course I FREAKED. I still won't use this type of silicone after that experience!!
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
I ran across this today and thought it was interesting. It even mentions NC.com by name.

http://www.cosmeticscop.com/question...allergies.aspx
Originally Posted by tinah
Well according to that link tinah it says there are NO WATER SOLUBLE Silicones

all silicones are non-water-soluble—there are no exceptions. Some are “heavier” than others, but their physical properties remain consistent, whether you see them listed as dimethicone, cyclomethicone, phenyl trimethicone, and so on. They don't rinse away (in fact they repel water, but water isn't all hair needs to retain moisture), and they are all removed the same way, with detergent cleansers, whether they contain sulphate or not. Sulphates are not required to remove silicone

I don't see how a co-wash would have enough cleansing ability????

msg during the Winter I used a hair spray a couple of time that I used to love before CG. When I used it my hair was horribly weighed down and felt coated and GROSS. It had the XANE in it, I didn't realize this so of course I FREAKED. I still won't use this type of silicone after that experience!!
Originally Posted by DEL2C
Hey there! Yeah, I noticed it said none of them are water soluble too. But, it also says...

sulphates are not required to remove silicones.

I didn't find this until last night. The only thing I can figure from this is that some cones are listed as "water soluble" when in fact they evaporate. So, it gives the illusion that it's being removed by water when it's actually already gone.
All I know is that now I can use the old can of Tresemme Flawless Curls mousse that's been hiding in my linen closest. It has the c-cone in it but evidently that's an okay cone.

After doing so much reading on nc.com, I think I'm going to worry less about being strictly CG and more about how my hair looks and feels. My wallet and my sanity can't take many more product-oops'!

After doing so much reading on nc.com, I think I'm going to worry less about being strictly CG and more about how my hair looks and feels. My wallet and my sanity can't take many more product-oops'!
Originally Posted by Sarahgrace
This is where I'm at too. After going cone free for more than a year and having worse hair than when I started, I decided that I needed to rethink the "rules" of curly hair. My hair is very fine in texture. It just seems very fragile and gets damaged very easily. Even things that normally wouldn't seem damaging, like sleeping on wet hair, really rip my hair up like crazy. I've found that some silicone products help make a protective layer on my hair, and I get less breakage. When I was cone free, I tried heavy moisturizing routines and then tried lots of protein. Nothing really helped much. Yes, I have to wash out the cones sometimes, but the dryness I get from washing is better (IMO) than the breakage I got when I was totally cone-free. Plus I don't have issues combating the dryness because I do regular deep treatments. Anyway that's just my two cents and perspective. I was so sad that my hair didn't look so shiny and healthy like others on the board who are CG/no cone. Now I'm just going to experiment and stick with what works for me.
3Aish hair, thin and fine-to-medium in texture, couple inches past shoulder length
Routine:
Wash/Condition: Jessicurl GLS, Aloeba, Too Shea
Curly: GVP The Cream (love this)
Straight: Ojon Tunu on wet hair, Aveda Smoothing Fluid and Style Prep Smoother before flat ironing or blow drying
HAha, i love or , lurve, not using cones. It is the single most beneficial hair choice i ever made. So, i think the most abundant source of confusion comes from conflicting information from separate sources. Like whisper down the alley.

You might just need to take whichever source seems most reliable, or weigh them all out and average, which is why so many are confused.

Finally, not all sulphated cleansing agents are identified as such
this is from tinahs linked article http://www.cosmeticscop.com/question...allergies.aspx

like this source for example i have no clue where this person comes from or what this person does. So what do they identify them as then?? huh, if it is so tricky.
I want to use cones SO badly. I want to be able to walk in the store and buy whatever fun product I see and just slather my hair with it. I got along just fine for nearly all my years with cones and always wore my hair curly and it was great. I always got so many compliments!

I came to NC because I like playing with my hair, not because I was having problems, but I went CG shortly after. I don't seem to have as much problem with trial and error as many, my hair and I usually get along. While I like CG, I don't like having to be so picky.

So...after reading this thread I got some Everpure and I picked up a serum with cones I used to love...and went straight to the shower.

When I was letting it dry I was certain that my life had changed - I was going to go back to the carefree days of using cones, and I would just low-poo and it would be a nice compromise.

Sigh. Cone Fail. I was a fuzzy poofball all day albeit a shiny one

It felt icky and when I got home I couldn't wait to wash it out and let my hair soak up some good condish. I Everpure-d it out and I was tangled and matted and it took 1/4 of a bottle of condish to unravel myself.

I felt so yucky that all I did tonight was leave in condish and sprayed some Set It Free on while it was damp.

I used to use them just fine and my hair was great. I don't understand.
2b (a fine 'n porous wavy)...and finally growing out :-)

Wash: Deva Low-poo
Condish and leave in: OneC or Suave Coconut

Styler: Angell or the Deva foam, sometimes KKKC

Etc: Set It Free as a refresher

Protien: Looking for one

I love hairspray...don't judge
parzy it's possible that the type of cones you used in the past are not necessarily what's in the everpure. That's why it's trial & error. I've used the XANES and Dimethicone even with the PEG in front and I just hate the way my hair feels. Coated and it gets really flat by the end of the day. A-cone doesn't bother me though.....
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
I want to use cones SO badly. I want to be able to walk in the store and buy whatever fun product I see and just slather my hair with it. I got along just fine for nearly all my years with cones and always wore my hair curly and it was great. I always got so many compliments!

I came to NC because I like playing with my hair, not because I was having problems, but I went CG shortly after. I don't seem to have as much problem with trial and error as many, my hair and I usually get along. While I like CG, I don't like having to be so picky.

So...after reading this thread I got some Everpure and I picked up a serum with cones I used to love...and went straight to the shower.

When I was letting it dry I was certain that my life had changed - I was going to go back to the carefree days of using cones, and I would just low-poo and it would be a nice compromise.

Sigh. Cone Fail. I was a fuzzy poofball all day albeit a shiny one

It felt icky and when I got home I couldn't wait to wash it out and let my hair soak up some good condish. I Everpure-d it out and I was tangled and matted and it took 1/4 of a bottle of condish to unravel myself.

I felt so yucky that all I did tonight was leave in condish and sprayed some Set It Free on while it was damp.

I used to use them just fine and my hair was great. I don't understand.
Originally Posted by parzy
thats wierd....you used them before with no problems? hmmmm....interesting...i myself am trying to decide what to do.....
3B~Fine, porus, and really long
HG's~Plopping and Homemade FSG!! Thank you BB
Proud To Be Egyptian!
"Your head is like a crown on you.
It is as beautiful as Mount Carmel.
Your hair is as smooth as purple silk.
I am captured by your flowing curls."
Song of Solomon 7:5 (NIRV)
I'm still super excited about this whole cone without sulfate thing and I'm not giving up - might have just binged a bit much on serum - but i used to luuuuv my Oscar Blandi Jasmine Oil Serum so much!

I think I'm the exception to the rule also in that my hair was curlier with cones. I think I just need to play around with it and see what works. I'm not giving up though, it worked great for me for my whole curly life and if I can use a few cones and still not use sulfates I think I'll be the happiest curly ever!
2b (a fine 'n porous wavy)...and finally growing out :-)

Wash: Deva Low-poo
Condish and leave in: OneC or Suave Coconut

Styler: Angell or the Deva foam, sometimes KKKC

Etc: Set It Free as a refresher

Protien: Looking for one

I love hairspray...don't judge
I ADORE my 'cones. I was planning to go full-on CG this weekend and was already mourning my favorite products. My adored Tresemme Curl Care, my Pantene, my IC Fantasia Gel. Well!! Apparently I don't have to!!!

I am a little confused about the low-poo thing, though. How often do most of you low poo? And what would you recommend? Everpure? Neutrogena?
Modified CG. You'll pry my 'cones from my cold dead fingers! Mixed waves, coarse, below shoulder length, dark brown. I hate my hair but I'm trying to learn to accept it.

Gels: LA Looks Wet Look Styling Gel, Garnier Fructis Wet Shine Gel. Condish: Alberto V05 Free Me Fresia, Tresemme' Flawless Curls, LVPNG, Neutrogena Triple Moisture. Shampoo: Tresemme' Flawless Curls. Silicone Serum: Whatever is on sale, but I don't leave home without it.
I ADORE my 'cones. I was planning to go full-on CG this weekend and was already mourning my favorite products. My adored Tresemme Curl Care, my Pantene, my IC Fantasia Gel. Well!! Apparently I don't have to!!!

I am a little confused about the low-poo thing, though. How often do most of you low poo? And what would you recommend? Everpure? Neutrogena?
Originally Posted by PrettyPorcupine
I wouldn't use a low poo with any cones, it would defeat the purpose of clarifying the cones out of your hair and they aren't necessary. There are plenty of low poos that don't have cones such as Giovanni, Avalon Organics, Burts Bees, California Baby. You could do a google search for more those are the ones that come to my mind and you don't have to order them on-line.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
What a thread- I am so happy I stumbled across this because previous to mod-cg, I loved Curls Rock amplifier by TIGI. It was a guaranteed good hair day, but gave it up because of the 'cone in it. I have loved the mod-cg route, hair is curlier and shinier, less frizzy etc.., but did miss the Curls Rock. I bought it the other day and used and had a great hair day. I will definitely rotate it with my other products and keep with the low-poo. I feel the biggest difference is probably not using the sulfate shampoos which are so harsh.
I can't believe this thread was actully IN EXISTENCE when I first happened upon these boards in Sept 2009 and have been CG ever since. As soon as I read this thread, I applied a Cyclomethicone-containing product and am currently enjoying the beautiful, supple curls and the THIRD DAY hair (and believe me, I can get third WEEK hair when including silicones in my routine) it has given me.

I can't believe the amount of rubbish that's spouted on this website and in numerous books about silicone 'coating' the hair. I was totally of this belief, having read it consistently on here. In reality, looking at the situation from personal experience, not from hearsay, coconut oil 'coated' (and subsequently dried) my hair whereas cyclomethicone never did.

Fair enough, I can understand the whole 'drying when it evaporates' scenario (although I, personally, have never experienced it), but that's minor compared to all the guff about silicones not being removed with anything that doesn't have the same ingredients as washing-up liquid (dish soap).

I think we all need to start properly questioning so-called 'facts; and research the actual science behind certain haircare ingredients.

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