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Old 07-14-2008, 12:55 PM   #1
 
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Question Amodimethicone - water soluble or not?

I am seriously confused about amodimthicone. I keep reading conflicting things about whether or not it is water soluable.

I read in Struttswife's review of the Deva show that it is water soluble, but then in a CurlChemist article, it says it isn't.

Blurb from the article"

"One frequent question that arises is whether these amine-functional silicones amodimethicone in particular are water soluble. This question is most relevant for those on a no-shampoo routine who wash with conditioners. They fear that the only way to prevent buildup of these silicones is to use a traditional surfactant such as sodium lauryl or laureth sulfate, cocamidopropyl betaine, or the ammonium lauryl or laureth sulfates.

The short answer is that these polymers are not water soluble. The silicone is provided to product manufacturers as a mixture of silicone/cationic surfactant/nonionic surfactant, which enables it to be readily dispersed into an aqueous formulation because this mixture is water soluble. However, once the product is used and the amodimethicone is deposited onto the surface of the hair and forms a film, it is not water soluble.
Conclusions: Amodimethicone and other similarly modified silicone polymers are considered to be among the best high-performance conditioning polymers currently available to the hair-care product formulator. They provide many unique benefits, including the following:

Provide deep conditioningProvide targeted conditioning to areas of particularly damaged hairProtect from thermal damageIncrease color retentionResist build upImpart gloss and shineThese modified silicones seem to be of particular benefit for those of us with damaged hair, permanently colored hair or those concerned about the buildup of conditioning agents . It would be necessary to use a shampoo containing one of the lauryl or laureth sulfates or cocamidopropyl betaine to completely remove this silicone from the hair, which may be of concern to those who prefer to use only conditioner-cleansing methods."

So which is it?!??!?

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Old 07-14-2008, 01:15 PM   #2
 
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From what I gather reading the board there are very mixed opinions about this cone. Devacurl One Condition has it in it and some say it builds up, some say it doesn't. Scientifically speaking I have no clue. I use it, but I wash with a SLS free shampoo once a week so maybe that's why I don't build up.

Really, there's no consensus here. For every thread that hashes it out and comes to a conclusion another will pop up and come to a different conclusion.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:20 PM   #3
 
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IMO, I don't think it is, but I don't think it builds up as bad as other cones do. I'd say use a 'poo with coco betaine, at least, to remove it every so often. It really depends on your hair, though. Cones of any kind can build up in my hair pretty quickly; others can go for days/weeks without having to shampoo them out.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #4
 
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There was a thread on here a while back that said that the OneC had another ingredient in it that made the a-cone soluble, but I can't remember the details or find the thread.
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Old 07-14-2008, 01:48 PM   #5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franfaircloth View Post
There was a thread on here a while back that said that the OneC had another ingredient in it that made the a-cone soluble, but I can't remember the details or find the thread.
I can't remember the exact ingredient, but as I recall it made the amodimethicone water-soluble in the bottle. Once amo- is deposited on the hair shaft, it is no longer water-soluble.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please!
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Old 07-14-2008, 02:32 PM   #6
 
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soluble or not, I think some university should give us an honorary degree in chemistry for all the research/reading we do on ingredients!

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Old 07-14-2008, 06:50 PM   #7
 
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All I know is that I have only poo'd my hair once in the past three months, and almost all of my products have both amodimethicone and dimethicone in them and I haven't had build up yet, so maybe this water soluble thing only applyes to certin textures...idk but I had to throw my two cents in.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:02 PM   #8
 
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Edited due to a cyberstalker. Sorry, guys.

Last edited by Koukla72; 02-12-2009 at 02:55 PM.
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:28 PM   #9
 
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I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......
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Old 07-14-2008, 07:36 PM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pammiecurl View Post
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......

ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

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Old 07-14-2008, 08:09 PM   #11
 
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So, if it's water soluble in the bottle, does that mean it's water soluble once it's on your hair?

How could it be one or the other?
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:11 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franfaircloth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pammiecurl View Post
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......

ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

LOL...I'm so glad you feel me cause' I thought I was losing my mind.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:12 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrocked View Post
So, if it's water soluble in the bottle, does that mean it's water soluble once it's on your hair?

How could it be one or the other?
From my understanding, it's water soluble inside the bottle, but not on the hairshaft. I don't get it, but ok...whatever the chemist says.....
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:29 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pammiecurl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by franfaircloth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pammiecurl View Post
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......

ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

LOL...I'm so glad you feel me cause' I thought I was losing my mind.

Maybe it's the amodimethicone seeping into our brains....
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:31 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrocked View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by pammiecurl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by franfaircloth View Post


ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

LOL...I'm so glad you feel me cause' I thought I was losing my mind.

Maybe it's the amodimethicone seeping into our brains....
LOL.....no doubt, lol!!!
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:39 PM   #16
 
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It makes sense, I promise. It's water dispersable in the bottle. Where it is combined with the other ingredient, and water. When you pour it on a surface, such as hair, the water evaporates and the cone dries into a film. Now
it's not water soluble.

The other thing I'm given to understand about these cones (amine-functionalized which includes both amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone) is that they will only form an extremely thin layer and not build up. Once on the hair, they will then repel other amine-functionalized cones from being able to build up.

I don't think they do the same for non-amine-functionalized cones though, so if you are adding other cones then bets are off.
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:42 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shamrocked View Post
soluble or not, I think some university should give us an honorary degree in chemistry for all the research/reading we do on ingredients!

Hear, hear!
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Old 07-14-2008, 08:50 PM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Crrl View Post
It makes sense, I promise. It's water dispersable in the bottle. Where it is combined with the other ingredient, and water. When you pour it on a surface, such as hair, the water evaporates and the cone dries into a film. Now
it's not water soluble.
Now that does make sense. I'd always wondered about the whole soluble in the bottle but not in the hair thing too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Crrl View Post
The other thing I'm given to understand about these cones (amine-functionalized which includes both amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone) is that they will only form an extremely thin layer and not build up. Once on the hair, they will then repel other amine-functionalized cones from being able to build up.

I don't think they do the same for non-amine-functionalized cones though, so if you are adding other cones then bets are off.
That's what I understood about amodimethicone too from reading other info here. I use this cone and dimethicone and that's about the only ones I can use without any trouble. I won't use the C-Cones anymore at all because they do give me trouble.
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Old 07-14-2008, 09:40 PM   #19
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Riot Crrl View Post
It makes sense, I promise. It's water dispersable in the bottle. Where it is combined with the other ingredient, and water. When you pour it on a surface, such as hair, the water evaporates and the cone dries into a film. Now
it's not water soluble.

The other thing I'm given to understand about these cones (amine-functionalized which includes both amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone) is that they will only form an extremely thin layer and not build up. Once on the hair, they will then repel other amine-functionalized cones from being able to build up.

I don't think they do the same for non-amine-functionalized cones though, so if you are adding other cones then bets are off.
Thanks for the clarification, Riot Crrl. That was such a fabulous way that you broke it down for our understanding. I appreciate that. You're an .
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Old 07-15-2008, 05:54 PM   #20
 
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The only cones I won't use now are the xane cones. I won't buy products that have cones up near the top of the list or multiple cones in the product. If there is one cone and it is mid to bottom on the ingredient list, I'll use them occasionally.
I try not to use a cone product two days in a row. With my arsenal of products, that isn't difficult.
When I realized that so many of them can be removed with cocobetaine (something found in almost all conditioners ... even Jessicurl's HCC has it), I lightened up on the cones. I haven't had a problem with build up since I amended my hair rules!
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