Amodimethicone - water soluble or not?

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I am seriously confused about amodimthicone. I keep reading conflicting things about whether or not it is water soluable.

I read in Struttswife's review of the Deva show that it is water soluble, but then in a CurlChemist article, it says it isn't.

Blurb from the article"

"One frequent question that arises is whether these amine-functional silicones amodimethicone in particular are water soluble. This question is most relevant for those on a no-shampoo routine who wash with conditioners. They fear that the only way to prevent buildup of these silicones is to use a traditional surfactant such as sodium lauryl or laureth sulfate, cocamidopropyl betaine, or the ammonium lauryl or laureth sulfates.

The short answer is that these polymers are not water soluble. The silicone is provided to product manufacturers as a mixture of silicone/cationic surfactant/nonionic surfactant, which enables it to be readily dispersed into an aqueous formulation because this mixture is water soluble. However, once the product is used and the amodimethicone is deposited onto the surface of the hair and forms a film, it is not water soluble.
Conclusions: Amodimethicone and other similarly modified silicone polymers are considered to be among the best high-performance conditioning polymers currently available to the hair-care product formulator. They provide many unique benefits, including the following:

Provide deep conditioningProvide targeted conditioning to areas of particularly damaged hairProtect from thermal damageIncrease color retentionResist build upImpart gloss and shineThese modified silicones seem to be of particular benefit for those of us with damaged hair, permanently colored hair or those concerned about the buildup of conditioning agents . It would be necessary to use a shampoo containing one of the lauryl or laureth sulfates or cocamidopropyl betaine to completely remove this silicone from the hair, which may be of concern to those who prefer to use only conditioner-cleansing methods."

So which is it?!??!?

From what I gather reading the board there are very mixed opinions about this cone. Devacurl One Condition has it in it and some say it builds up, some say it doesn't. Scientifically speaking I have no clue. I use it, but I wash with a SLS free shampoo once a week so maybe that's why I don't build up.

Really, there's no consensus here. For every thread that hashes it out and comes to a conclusion another will pop up and come to a different conclusion.
IMO, I don't think it is, but I don't think it builds up as bad as other cones do. I'd say use a 'poo with coco betaine, at least, to remove it every so often. It really depends on your hair, though. Cones of any kind can build up in my hair pretty quickly; others can go for days/weeks without having to shampoo them out.
4A - dense, medium strands - APL/BSL - 3+ years natural!

YAY!: GF Triple Nutrition Conditioner, YTCu Color Care Conditioner, Shea Moisture Deep Treatment Masque, LOTD AV Gel, EVCO, JCN&S, KCCC, buns and updos!
There was a thread on here a while back that said that the OneC had another ingredient in it that made the a-cone soluble, but I can't remember the details or find the thread.
botticelli-ish bob.

Current Routine:
-Suave Aloe & Waterlily cowash/leave-in
-Giovanni Direct Leave-In
-FOTE aloe vera gel
There was a thread on here a while back that said that the OneC had another ingredient in it that made the a-cone soluble, but I can't remember the details or find the thread.
Originally Posted by franfaircloth
I can't remember the exact ingredient, but as I recall it made the amodimethicone water-soluble in the bottle. Once amo- is deposited on the hair shaft, it is no longer water-soluble.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please!
4A - dense, medium strands - APL/BSL - 3+ years natural!

YAY!: GF Triple Nutrition Conditioner, YTCu Color Care Conditioner, Shea Moisture Deep Treatment Masque, LOTD AV Gel, EVCO, JCN&S, KCCC, buns and updos!
soluble or not, I think some university should give us an honorary degree in chemistry for all the research/reading we do on ingredients!

All I know is that I have only poo'd my hair once in the past three months, and almost all of my products have both amodimethicone and dimethicone in them and I haven't had build up yet, so maybe this water soluble thing only applyes to certin textures...idk but I had to throw my two cents in.
...2c...3a...3b...BINGO!!!

Hilighing Junkie. Soon to be pink.

My HG will: volumize, moisturize, define curls, create major shine, contatin protine, eleminate any and all frizz, give me root curl, have slight hold with no crunch, make my hair grow faster, and be in mousse form. Is that so much to ask? Oh, and it would be nice if the container did tricks for me...
Edited due to a cyberstalker. Sorry, guys.

Last edited by Koukla72; 02-12-2009 at 02:55 PM.
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 93
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......
Originally Posted by pammiecurl

ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

botticelli-ish bob.

Current Routine:
-Suave Aloe & Waterlily cowash/leave-in
-Giovanni Direct Leave-In
-FOTE aloe vera gel
So, if it's water soluble in the bottle, does that mean it's water soluble once it's on your hair?

How could it be one or the other?
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 93
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......
Originally Posted by pammiecurl

ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

Originally Posted by franfaircloth
LOL...I'm so glad you feel me cause' I thought I was losing my mind.
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 93
So, if it's water soluble in the bottle, does that mean it's water soluble once it's on your hair?

How could it be one or the other?
Originally Posted by Shamrocked
From my understanding, it's water soluble inside the bottle, but not on the hairshaft. I don't get it, but ok...whatever the chemist says.....
I'm still confused as well because the conditioner that I use as a co-wash and sometimes even as a leave-in with honey and evoo (Herbal Essences Totally Twisted & Hello Hydration) contains Bis-Aminopropyl Dimethicone and I was told that it's water soluble in the bottle, but not on the hair. I'm trying to figure out, what sense does that make??? Why would I want a product to be water soluble in the friggin' bottle and not on my hair??? I mean, who the heck came up with this concoction for beauty products??? It's pretty darned asinine if ya ask me, lol. Just my two cents.......
Originally Posted by pammiecurl

ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

Originally Posted by franfaircloth
LOL...I'm so glad you feel me cause' I thought I was losing my mind.
Originally Posted by pammiecurl

Maybe it's the amodimethicone seeping into our brains....
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 93


ITA!! I am glad you guys cleared that up. I thought the thread had said something about being soluble in the bottle, but I didn't post earlier because when I started typing it in I thought "no, fran, you must be crazy, why would they want to make it soluble only in the bottle???" so I didn't post that because I thought that I was surely remembering incorrectly.

Yes, I said it. I talk to myself as I post on these threads.

Originally Posted by franfaircloth
LOL...I'm so glad you feel me cause' I thought I was losing my mind.
Originally Posted by pammiecurl

Maybe it's the amodimethicone seeping into our brains....
Originally Posted by Shamrocked
LOL.....no doubt, lol!!!
It makes sense, I promise. It's water dispersable in the bottle. Where it is combined with the other ingredient, and water. When you pour it on a surface, such as hair, the water evaporates and the cone dries into a film. Now
it's not water soluble.

The other thing I'm given to understand about these cones (amine-functionalized which includes both amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone) is that they will only form an extremely thin layer and not build up. Once on the hair, they will then repel other amine-functionalized cones from being able to build up.

I don't think they do the same for non-amine-functionalized cones though, so if you are adding other cones then bets are off.
soluble or not, I think some university should give us an honorary degree in chemistry for all the research/reading we do on ingredients!

Originally Posted by Shamrocked
Hear, hear!
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
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It makes sense, I promise. It's water dispersable in the bottle. Where it is combined with the other ingredient, and water. When you pour it on a surface, such as hair, the water evaporates and the cone dries into a film. Now
it's not water soluble.
Originally Posted by Riot Crrl
Now that does make sense. I'd always wondered about the whole soluble in the bottle but not in the hair thing too.

The other thing I'm given to understand about these cones (amine-functionalized which includes both amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone) is that they will only form an extremely thin layer and not build up. Once on the hair, they will then repel other amine-functionalized cones from being able to build up.

I don't think they do the same for non-amine-functionalized cones though, so if you are adding other cones then bets are off.
Originally Posted by Riot Crrl
That's what I understood about amodimethicone too from reading other info here. I use this cone and dimethicone and that's about the only ones I can use without any trouble. I won't use the C-Cones anymore at all because they do give me trouble.
mostly 3a/i/F
Modified CG since Feb 2008
Rotating a lot!
Blog: http://amy51373.blogspot.com/
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 93
It makes sense, I promise. It's water dispersable in the bottle. Where it is combined with the other ingredient, and water. When you pour it on a surface, such as hair, the water evaporates and the cone dries into a film. Now
it's not water soluble.

The other thing I'm given to understand about these cones (amine-functionalized which includes both amodimethicone and bis-aminopropyl dimethicone) is that they will only form an extremely thin layer and not build up. Once on the hair, they will then repel other amine-functionalized cones from being able to build up.

I don't think they do the same for non-amine-functionalized cones though, so if you are adding other cones then bets are off.
Originally Posted by Riot Crrl
Thanks for the clarification, Riot Crrl. That was such a fabulous way that you broke it down for our understanding. I appreciate that. You're an .
The only cones I won't use now are the xane cones. I won't buy products that have cones up near the top of the list or multiple cones in the product. If there is one cone and it is mid to bottom on the ingredient list, I'll use them occasionally.
I try not to use a cone product two days in a row. With my arsenal of products, that isn't difficult.
When I realized that so many of them can be removed with cocobetaine (something found in almost all conditioners ... even Jessicurl's HCC has it), I lightened up on the cones. I haven't had a problem with build up since I amended my hair rules!
Type: 3a fine & dense,with normal porosity, terrible product junkie
ROUTINE: LI, enhancer, gel, plop with Curlease towel, serum product (either CIAB or Gel-les'c), clip & diffuse.
Too many favourite products to list ... I finally have my routine that works and alot of products to choose from. My product stash is huge, but well loved !!!

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