I'm pretty sure my hair hates the CG method

omg Thank you! you just answered about 50 of my first questions!
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3C/3B (ish...) hair
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Last Chemical Straightener: Sept 2007
First Big Chop: May 2008
Next cut: September 2008 (1 inch)
Last Chop: January 2009
YAY NO MORE RELAXED ENDS!!!!

Right now I'm all about henna/indigo! Just LOVE my new super dark hair!
I have never managed 2nd day hair. I always shower and condition my hair every morning.
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Last edited by CBETH; 12-15-2009 at 11:43 PM.
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Last edited by CBETH; 12-15-2009 at 11:43 PM.
Thanks for all your help guys!

I thought a modified CG routine was plopping, lots of conditioner, no brushing and letting it dry down, so what is a real modified CG routine like, cause that's what I thought I was doing.

I know conditioner can clean, I've done CO washes in the past, but that and not washing everyday still freaks me out. For those of you who do workout do you just let the sweat dry or do you do a rinse in plain water? What do you DO with your hair on days you don't wash? I know it is called second day hair for a reason but if I just bounced out of bed and started going my hair would look pretty bad, how do you style it on no wash days?
Originally Posted by KelpieCurls
Okay, modified CG in MY mind (and others may have other opinions) are people who don't just co-wash. The CG method really advocates getting rid of sulfates and 'cones, and I think it's safe to say you're "CG" if you've done that, but I think saying "modified' helps clear up some confusion. I use soap bars to wash with. They don't have sulfates/harsh detergents. I get to lather and feel like I'm cleansing, LOL! Still, I only wash every 2-3 days.

I'm an Irish stepdancer - extreme workouts, LOL! I time my washings around my practice schedule. Yep. Just gotta suck it up and do it. And conditioner DOES clean just fine. You can put all the soap and detergent you want on your hair, but if you don't SCRUB, you're not doing any good. It's just like how we teach kids to wash their hands - soap may help, but it's the scrubbing that counts!

For second day hair, I spray my 50/50 mix of water and gel into my hair, scrunch, and pin up my roots. I let it dry, then crunch it out. Nope, doesn't look as good as day 1, but life must go on. Search for BoticelliBabe's post on how she pins/clips her roots.

One month on the CG method isn't nearly enough time to tell whether or not your hair will like it, in my opinion. I'm on month 2.5, and I'm only now really seeing the awesome benefits. I read that it can take up to 6 months for your curls to firmly establish.

If you choose not to go CG, you're not a "failure" or any other idea that might be floating in your head! I hope it works for you only because it has worked so well for me!



Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
M/C ii

Mod CG: Sept 08
Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
Humectants: @ dew point 40+
My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,718
Homemade flaxseed gel-

2 tablespoons of flaxseeds
1 cup water
Boil for ten minutes
Pour mixture through a strainer.
Once cooled, place in airtight container in fridge for up to a week.

Some people add aloe vera gel, or essential oil to the gel.
http://public.fotki.com/TLGuerrero/

password: curly

3B w/3A underneath

Medium texture
Average porosity

Crazy-picky hair; likes some oils and proteins, but not others, can tolerate some glycerin.

Current products-
Co-wash: Suave/Vo5/TJ Refresh
Rinse out & Leave in: Suave Tropical Coconut/Garnier Triple Nutrition
Gel: Herbal Essences Set Me Up/Aussie Tizz No Frizz
Oooh wow - you were pointed to me? Little ol' me? I'm honored! Let's see if I can do anything to help.

First, let me say that not everybody can do CG - myself included - so don't feel like a failure for that. I think my hair is just too long to be truly CG, and the old ends still have a lot of "baggage". So, I now use bars on my hair (castile, handmade, organic, or even just sulfate free), along with ACV or plain white vinegar rinses once a week to combat buildup. I don't use sulfates anymore - even when I'm clarifying, I use a low poo with coco-betaine, because that gets out as much as sulfates do, but much more gently.

Ok, let me go through your routine and I'll just tell you what I would do. First, stop with so much shampoo - I think you're clarifying too often and stripping your hair of all it's natural oils, and that's why you're having so much trouble with tangling. The sulfates are lifting the cuticle of your hair and you're not sealing or shutting them back down, and then when your hair dries, the little scales act like velcro and just stick to each other rather than sliding. If you MUST poo, use a diluted vinegar rinse before getting out of the shower to shut your cuticles back down and help with the tangling issue, and rinse that out with cold water (also helps to shut the cuticle down).

Second, I think you need more moisture than the VO5 is giving you. Try L'oreal Vive Pro Nutri Gloss for medium to long hair that's wavy or curly - for many of the curlies who have tried it, it detangles REALLY well, and the detangling effect lasts long after the hair is dry. Plus, it has no cones (unless you're in the UK or Australia, then you need to get the treatment in the jar rather than the conditioner). We have a pretty big but rather informative thread going about it that you might want to read.

L'oreal Vive Pro Nutri Gloss conditioner - I might be in love!

And like whatsercurl said, I brush. Dry. I have to. But I do it carefully, and only before showering or wetting my hair - not to style, unless I'm about to wear it up, or else it encourages tangling. I use a Goody Ouchless paddle brush, and I seriously only lose maybe 20-30 hairs each time I do it. Now, I also use a Denman brush in the shower when my hair is drenched in conditioner, and then once more after my final rinse just before I get out of the shower. This helps to keep the tangles out while I put my product in, and it dries much smoother and clumpier this way. Also, seriously consider using that L'oreal Nutri Gloss conditioner as a leave in - just smooth a little (maybe a quarter sized glob for you) through your dripping wet hair before you get out of the shower and brush it through. It sounds like you really need the added moisture.

Next, you really need to try a styler. I know a lot of them are gooey and thick, but sometimes that's just what you need. What I finally found was L'oreal Lightheaded Melting Gel - it's a little runnier than most gels, but it has slip, which only one other styler that I've used has...and that's not even a real styler - it's KY jelly. Yes, the LUBE. Sheesh - it better have slip! *rofl* But while the KY has slip, it doesn't have hold, so keep that in mind if you want to try it. I use the Wal Mart generic stuff because it's only $1.75 for 4 oz. Now, the melting gel does have a PEG/PPG modified cone in it, but that makes it water soluble, so it's safe for CG.

Put your gel in VERY wet (nearly dripping) hair, and scrunch a little upward from the bottom, making a fairly tight fist and squeezing a few times until you hear a "gooshing" sound. That's the gel mixing with the water in your hair, and it helps distribute it evenly. Do this until your entire head has been "gooshed" up to the roots. That's how you keep from having some sections that are crunchy and crisp, and others just underneath it or next to it that are bone dry and frizzy.

Ok, pineapple. This is easy, actually - it's a really high, loose ponytail on top of your head that you put in just before going to bed, and it's to protect your curls from your pillow while you sleep. Your head looks like a pineapple with your hair being the leafy top. I started plopping my pineapples when I realized my hair was just too damn long (my pineapple always flops over to one side or the other), and I found out by accident that it really enhances my end curl. All I do is put my pineapple in, then wet the ends either with plain water or a refresher spray, scrunch (or brush and scrunch, depending on how tangled I am that day), and then plop into a breatheable cap before bed (there are pics of this in my fotki in the deviations album to help you understand how I do it). The next morning, I take it all down, shake, and voila! My hair is done! If you don't believe me, look at my sig pics. Those three pics are all second day hair from a plopped pineapple, and they are the same pics I took the morning I did my plopped pineapple pics for my fotki. I didn't even have a mirror.

Ok, I'll stop there for now, and let you absorb all of that. It'll give me a chance to get some sleep while you decide if you want to ask any questions I've not yet managed to cover.
BB


http://www.BotticelliBotanicals.etsy.com
BSL/Mid Back, thick 3a/b

Botticelli Botanicals Meringue
Botticelli Botanicals Smoothie
Botticelli Botanicals Styling Mudd w/ double avocado oil and double agave
Botticelli Botanicals Lime in the Coconut Butter
Homemade flaxseed gel-

2 tablespoons of flaxseeds
1 cup water
Boil for ten minutes
Pour mixture through a strainer.
Once cooled, place in airtight container in fridge for up to a week.

Some people add aloe vera gel, or essential oil to the gel.
Originally Posted by marinacurlz
What she said lol!
BotticelliBabe, thanks for all the great information!! I now have some new things for my shopping list.

I'm still a little confused about pineapple plopping but I'm going to look around and see if I can find any step by step directions with pictures.
Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair. ~Kahlil Gibran
BotticelliBabe, thanks for all the great information!! I now have some new things for my shopping list.

I'm still a little confused about pineapple plopping but I'm going to look around and see if I can find any step by step directions with pictures.
Originally Posted by KelpieCurls
No problem! If you check my fotki under the deviations album, I have some pics of my hair in the morning as I take out the plopped pineapple - maybe that will help you to see it being deconstructed.

Let me know if you have any more questions - I'm here to help!
BB


http://www.BotticelliBotanicals.etsy.com
BSL/Mid Back, thick 3a/b

Botticelli Botanicals Meringue
Botticelli Botanicals Smoothie
Botticelli Botanicals Styling Mudd w/ double avocado oil and double agave
Botticelli Botanicals Lime in the Coconut Butter
Although sulfate is contributing to your hair problem, before trying these new suggestions (which are excellent, by the way!!!), you will need to do one last wash with your sulfate shampoo to get out any cones and other build-up...you want to start with a fresh slate. Then, after you wash with the harsh shampoo, condition with the Nutrigloss or other cone-free conditioner...and then from there on, you can go CG (or modified if you want to use water soluble cones...those are the kind that wash out with conditioner). Good luck with all that and hope it works. Again, if it doesn't...don't worry, you're not a failure. You'll find threads from many curlies who "rebelled" (LOL) against the CG method and they can also provide you tips...that's if you plan to go to the dark side bwahahaha.
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.


3a/3b
Thanks boomy! I was tired, but I felt all wound up from watching the election coverage, so I went ahead and spewed it all out at once. *lol*

I had thought about mentioning the clarifying, but I don't think she's been using anything that has cones, so she should be squeaky already. *lol*

I did forget to mention though, that when I was still using sulfate poos and cones, I made absolutely sure to do a vinegar rinse EVERY time shampoo touched my hair, which was 2-3 times a week. And if I used cones, I only used one product that had them, plus my conditioner, so I didn't overload, and it was the same cone in both.

HTH!
BB


http://www.BotticelliBotanicals.etsy.com
BSL/Mid Back, thick 3a/b

Botticelli Botanicals Meringue
Botticelli Botanicals Smoothie
Botticelli Botanicals Styling Mudd w/ double avocado oil and double agave
Botticelli Botanicals Lime in the Coconut Butter

Last edited by BotticelliBabe; 11-05-2008 at 10:26 PM.
Just have to say, as a V05 person...

Do you have a shower comb? And a catch for the drain? Because there's nothing wrong with detangling with a wide tooth comb after you cowash.
My hair was matted. MATTED to my head on one side after a camping trip. Like the matts a long hair cat get that you have to cut out.

I got the matts out with V05. It's an excellent cowash, it does contain surfactants, as well as some astringents, especially the clarifying formulas, so you ARE cleaning when you cowash.

It's the slipperiest condish I know of. I always cowash and then comb out in the shower. I can easily comb out, no matter how tangled my hair is, especially when I'm rinsing it out. That being said, I usually use a heavier, real conditioner after I wash with V05, either a homeade butter-oil based one or AOHR.

Hey, I used to spend upwards of 15 minutes trying in vain to detangle my hair back in the dark days before V05 and shower combs. Now it takes like 2 minutes.

Suave clarifying has like the worst detergent & most drying detergent in it, the ammonium sulfates. They'll clarify, all right. Can't imagine using something like that more than once a month at the most, and I do shampoo once a week.
Wavy, curly on the ends, 2C.
Coarse to medium textured, porous, dry, and lots of it.
Shampoo--HSH Pumpkin, Abba Pure Moisture
LVPNG, HSH Pumpkin, Walgreen's Knockoffs--Condish/Cowash
AOHR, Nexxus, EO--LI
CK & ReCoil--Activator
Suave Max Hold, Alagio Curl-Gel
For inquiring minds who want to know:
http://www.public.fotki.com/TillyErnissee
Just have to say, as a V05 person...

Do you have a shower comb? And a catch for the drain? Because there's nothing wrong with detangling with a wide tooth comb after you cowash.
My hair was matted. MATTED to my head on one side after a camping trip. Like the matts a long hair cat get that you have to cut out.

I got the matts out with V05. It's an excellent cowash, it does contain surfactants, as well as some astringents, especially the clarifying formulas, so you ARE cleaning when you cowash.

It's the slipperiest condish I know of. I always cowash and then comb out in the shower. I can easily comb out, no matter how tangled my hair is, especially when I'm rinsing it out. That being said, I usually use a heavier, real conditioner after I wash with V05, either a homeade butter-oil based one or AOHR.

Hey, I used to spend upwards of 15 minutes trying in vain to detangle my hair back in the dark days before V05 and shower combs. Now it takes like 2 minutes.

Suave clarifying has like the worst detergent & most drying detergent in it, the ammonium sulfates. They'll clarify, all right. Can't imagine using something like that more than once a month at the most, and I do shampoo once a week.
Originally Posted by Tilly
I used to use VO5, and I still have four half-bottles in assorted formulas that didn't work as well as I had hoped. I'll probably relegate them to the shaving brigade soon. They didn't have enough slip for me at all. The LVPNG feels like it has a cone in it, but it doesn't. It's really amazing - whatever they did to it, it works!
BB


http://www.BotticelliBotanicals.etsy.com
BSL/Mid Back, thick 3a/b

Botticelli Botanicals Meringue
Botticelli Botanicals Smoothie
Botticelli Botanicals Styling Mudd w/ double avocado oil and double agave
Botticelli Botanicals Lime in the Coconut Butter

Last edited by BotticelliBabe; 11-05-2008 at 10:19 PM.
Thanks for all your help guys!

I thought a modified CG routine was plopping, lots of conditioner, no brushing and letting it dry down, so what is a real modified CG routine like, cause that's what I thought I was doing.

I know conditioner can clean, I've done CO washes in the past, but that and not washing everyday still freaks me out. For those of you who do workout do you just let the sweat dry or do you do a rinse in plain water? What do you DO with your hair on days you don't wash? I know it is called second day hair for a reason but if I just bounced out of bed and started going my hair would look pretty bad, how do you style it on no wash days?
Originally Posted by KelpieCurls
I work out daily and CO wash (or bar wash) 2 to 3 times a week. The sweat either dries, then I shower with a shower cap or I water or CO wash. I generally get 2nd and 3rd day hair, so if I dont have to wet it I dont.

All the advice you are getting is right on target - and your hair looked very decent in the first pic. Do a sulfate poo then follow the advice you are getting here - I would practically garauntee you will be thrilled!
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
If you need to wash you might try shampoo bars or sulfate free shampoo (there are many Karens Body Beautiful, Kinky Curly Come Clean, etc.). You might also want to spend some bucks and buy yourself a really good deep condish for those knots. Good luck

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