Help for curls living in a dry climate...zero humidity

My hair used to be a solid 3b when I lived on the East Coast. Corkscrew and Botticelli curls *easy*. But now, living in dry Colorado, my hair is simply wavy at best. It's really disappointing. I've tried plopping, various gels, creams, diffusing upside down, not diffusing, etc, etc. I'm at my wits end.

Is there anyone in the same situation who has a solution? Which products do you use? Which routine do you use? I would really, REALLY appreciate it!!

Never in my wildest dreams would I think I would ever say this, but I MISS the humidity.

Thank you!!
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
Thank you. I'll have to track down Reddish Rocks.

Truthfully, I had been pretty lazy with products, just using no-poo and one-condition. I was so happy to not have frizz that I didn't bother using any product. But I'm tired of not having my real curls and just waves. So here are some of the products I have used with no success:

Boots Curling Cream, original formula
Curl Keeper
Tweek
Fuzzy Duck gel
JCS Hair Nourishing Cream
Jessiecurl products

I've quickly learned that glycerin does not work for me in this climate.

I'm going to dig out my bottle of Angell and try that. I also just ordered KCCC and KCKT which are glycerin free, so hopefully I will have some luck with them.

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
Have you tried adding aloe vera to your routine? It sounds like your curls are craving moisture, and AVG is one of the best moisturizers around. Some curlies use it as a leave-in, some mix it with stylers, and I think there's even a thread somewhere about making a refresher spray out of it.

Oils will help seal moisture in. You're already avoiding glycerin, which is a good tactic; you should probably avoid other humectants as well.

This thread might also be helpful: Calling all curlies who DO need moisture!

Good luck!
Hair Journal. 2b/3a, Mii, never colored, rarely heat-styled. CG since 27-Mar-08. Current favorite routine: Aloeba (co-wash), AOHR (rinse-out), KCKT mixed with AVG (leave-in), KCCC, BRHG, overnight plop, scrunch crunch with Nourish & Shine.
I don't wash the One Condition out, so it is also used as a leave in. I haven't tried AVG since I lived on the East Coast, so thank you for the reminder. I'll see how it fairs in dry Colorado. And thank you so much for that link!!! It's *very* helpful.
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
If you're only using nopoo, you may be having issues with the A-cone in Deva One building up. Most need a lowpoo to remove it.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic (now Hello Curly Curl Stimulater); Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I don't wash the One Condition out, so it is also used as a leave in. I haven't tried AVG since I lived on the East Coast, so thank you for the reminder. I'll see how it fairs in dry Colorado. And thank you so much for that link!!! It's *very* helpful.
Originally Posted by Lunacurl
KCCC has aloe in it. It's VERY moisturizing on my hair. Maybe give that a shot and see how it does... if you notice SOME improvement but not as much as you want, then I'd look into getting an AVG for on top of the kCCC
CG/Mod CG (soap bars) since 8/12/08
CO wash/Cond: Kathymack & Flowermoon Castille soap bars, V05 Chamomile Tea, Suave Ocean Breeze, Biolage Conditioning Balm
Styling loves: DIFFUSING! CK, KCNT, KCCC, FOTE (on dry hair only), Re:coil, Proclaim gel
Not sure about: Boots, Tweek, KBB Milk, DMHJ
HATE: plopping, FOTE on wet hair, BRHG
Would an ACV rinse remove it? That's usually what I do to "clarify", but maybe I'm wrong? And I rotate my products. I started using One Condition again recently after going through a bottle of Aubrey's Honeysuckle Rose conditioner. And a month ago I used an organic, no-sulfates cleanser that got rid of build up, so I don't think that's the issue. I wish it was...that would be simple to solve.
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
I don't wash the One Condition out, so it is also used as a leave in. I haven't tried AVG since I lived on the East Coast, so thank you for the reminder. I'll see how it fairs in dry Colorado. And thank you so much for that link!!! It's *very* helpful.
Originally Posted by Lunacurl
KCCC has aloe in it. It's VERY moisturizing on my hair. Maybe give that a shot and see how it does... if you notice SOME improvement but not as much as you want, then I'd look into getting an AVG for on top of the kCCC
Originally Posted by MimsTX
Thank you!! I'm *very* excited to be getting the KCCC. I hope it arrives soon.
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
I live in denver, here are a few of my suggestions and stuff that I use. Try using your curl keeper followed by a strong hold gel. I find that the gel keeps the curl keeper from vaporizing into our dry air. I am not currently following the cg method but here is what works for me. I have 3b/c fine hair. I use Jessicurl gentle lathering shampoo, wdt or aohr or one condition. then on soaking wet hair I use curls rock amplifier or else curl keeper with herbal essence set it up or biosilk rock hard gel over the ck. I find i get a little looser curls with the curls rock. Try doing a deep conditioner every week and maybe get a humidifier for your room at night. When my hair gets flat and limp (sometimes caused by over conditioning)I do a protein treatment (nexxus emergence) followed by Jessicurl WDT, and that helps a ton. This is the only time I use protein, because my hair hates it. Hope this helps, oh yeah becareful on using ingrediants that are humcunats (sp) because they draw moisture out of our hair into the dry air.
3b/c baby fine hair
one more thing- when I use One C all the time I get really bad build up you might want to try using a clarifying or at least low poo to get some of the build up off. Depending what part of the state your in, you might have really hard water try getting a shower filter, it has helped my hair and skin 100%
3b/c baby fine hair
Thank you, Juicebuff! I agree with the shower filter 100%. I've been using one for at least 10 years.

I just gave up on CK today and swapped it out. I dug into my products stash that I haven't used in quite sometime and found Nexxus Phyto Organics Redefining Gel, which I used to love when I lived on the East Coast, so I think I'll give it another try since it is glycerin-free and has strong hold. The over-conditioning is a very good point too. I felt that's where I was last month when I started using a mild sulfate-free clarifying "poo". I just did an Ojon treatment last night which has helped a lot and think I will take your advice on shocking my hair with some protein to shake the occasional build up.

I live in Boulder, btw. I used to get my haircut at Devachan in NYC and will be looking for a deva stylist in Denver soon. I hear there's a good one in Cherry Creek.

Thank you for all your suggestions. I love this board!!
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist
Originally Posted by DEL2C
You rang????

I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know.

I've been using KCNT, KCCC, and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!



Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
M/C ii

Mod CG: Sept 08
Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
Humectants: @ dew point 40+
My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly
I think if you use glycerin-based products when it's wet out you should be fine. I know having to base the weather on what products to use is a PITA, but it's what we all (or most of us) do.

I live in UT & if I use gel instead of cream during the driest part of the year (summer, of course), I need to use a leave-in conditioner first, unless it's a gel that's not drying in the first place.

I never use a leave-in conditioner when I use a cream. That's just asking for over-conditioning (weighing down) my fine hair.

And sometimes I only use a leave-in (Oyin Honey Hemp, Body Shop Amlika, Giovanni Direct, Kinky Curly Knot Today) or an oil (Jessicurl Oil Blend, Africa's Best Herbal, Oshune Hemp).
Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist
Originally Posted by DEL2C
You rang????

I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know.

I've been using KCNT, KCCC, and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!
Originally Posted by ReddishRocks
Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points.

If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.

Last edited by redcelticcurls; 11-07-2008 at 10:53 AM. Reason: typos
*looking at the above post in awe*


*going to go read up on dew points now*
3a/3b/3c hair all on one head

public.fotki.com/breezybaby
youtube.com/joyfulbree

Staples (used in many ways):
Coconut milk
Castor oil
Coconut oil
Honey
Shea butter
Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points.

If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
This is absolutely PHENOMENAL information!!! Thank you SO MUCH!!! When I first started reading your post I thought it would go way over my head, but as I read on I understood thanks to your excellent description. No wonder my curls have turned into waves at best. Darn dew point! Now I know what to keep an eye on and hope for 40's and 50's dew point days. And in the meantime I'll have to moisturize and seal.

I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. Thank you!!
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**

Last edited by Lunacurl; 11-07-2008 at 12:33 PM.

You rang????

I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know.

I've been using KCNT, KCCC, and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!
Originally Posted by ReddishRocks
Thank you for chiming in. I now feel that I am on the right track thanks to all these great posts and feel very optimistic in receiving the KC products.

Yes, we'll definitely have to stay in touch. We can send each other dew point alerts if we *ever* see the dew point rise above 40.
CG since 2002
True 3b, but looser curls since moving to drier climate. BSL thick, medium-course hair with some 2C/3a on canopy.

-co-wash w/Devacurl No-Poo
-condition w/KCKT or AOHR
-i never use a leave in
-style with a drop of Pink Boots, followed by a modest amount of KCCC, topped with a small dollop of Devacurl Angell
-plop and diffuse
**likes: everything above. dislikes: glycerin, BRHG, KBB**
Reddish Rocks is in your part of the country, you might want to check her out and see what she's using! Also specifically what products have you tried so others can assist
Originally Posted by DEL2C
You rang????

I read the thread, and I totally agree - glycerin-based products are not working right now. Any humectant is trying to equalize atmospheric moisture, and since ours is very low right now, it's just yanking it from your hair. I'm avoiding honey for that reason too (and because I'm afraid to bleach my red, LOL!). I just got KBB milk, nectar, and cream - today's my first wash with those! They contain oils that I've had some success with. The milk has jojoba, which my curls have responded to before (but I used too much... too stringy - hopefully as a rinse-out, it's not too much now!).

I think another thing I need to be paying more attention to is dew point vs. humidity. I have a Master's degree and I'm STILL confused by that stuff, LOL! There's some argument that the dew point is more important than relative humidity, and as soon as I can make it simple enough to explain, I'll let you know.

I've been using KCNT, KCCC, and FOTE aloe vera gel for styling. I'm really liking the shampoo bars, but today I chose to low-poo because of some odd experiments I've been doing recently, LOL! I'm not yet sure about a rinse-out... been using the LVPNG, but I'm wanting to go more natural if possible, so that's why I'm trying the KBB (which HAS to go back - the sandalwood is just not good...).

Stay in touch - as things get colder and drier, us Colorado Curlies have to stick together!!
Originally Posted by ReddishRocks
Although PA does not get as dry as what the west does, I think this is quite important. It matters more for me in the summer.

Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.

From anecdotal evidence I've seen here and from personal experience, curls seem to like dew points in the 40s-50s. When dew points hit the mid 60s (what most people would consider "sticky" for comfort purposes) people will start noticing high-humidity frizz, which could be more accurately called high dew point frizz.

Dew points in the 30s will be ok for some, and too dry for other curlies, who start noticing limp curls from the dryness. From the low 30's and down, the air is very dry, and most will notice some loss of curl.

Right now, the dew point in Boulder is 12, which is extremely dry. Dew points like this can really cause serious curl loss. Moisture is key in this type of climate, and most will have to experiment to see how they can add and reatin moisture in their hair.

If it were me, I'd play with aloe & oil combos. One to give moisture, and oils to retain it. But, I live in the east, so my advice is worth little when it comes to real life application of low dew points.

I used to want to be a meteorologist, so I do get dew points.

If I had to make it simple, I'd start with these guidelines

Dew point mid 30's and below - more moisture, less humectants. Find a balance between appropriate moisture and overconditioning.

Dew points 40-50's into low 60s. Opitmal curl formation. Easier maintenance and can balance moisture and humectants.

Dew points mid 60's and up. Humectants as tolerated, thought they can backfire for some in extreme high dew points. Generalloy, less moisture is needed than for the low dew points.

Of course, no curly guidlines hold true for all curlies, so YMMV.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Hands down the best explanation of dew point yet! I found a thread before that sort of goes into it, if I find it I will let you know which one it is, but I wasn't sure what a good range was. You have completely answered my questions.

Thank you so very much!

Mix of 3s, thick, coarse, medium porosity

Current hair styling technique: rake with a scrunch at the end. (works with my coarse hair)

http://public.fotki.com/curlymix/
pw: curls

Known HGs: KCCC, homemade fsg, honey
Personally, I feel that relative humidity does not matter as much with hair as dew point does.

Dew point cannot be higher than the actual air temperature. So, if it is a rainy 40 degree day, the relative humidity may be near 100%, which would make some think that it is humid. But, the dew point cannot be above 40 at that point, so it won't feel humid the way a hot summer day in the southeast will. The air temperature just isn't high enough to allow for a high dew point.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
I think what bothered me the most was WHY. WHY is it that this is true, and WHY does it matter? Then it hit me (I think, LOL)! I'm an elementary school teacher, and we're currently talking about the water cycle and weather. As the air temperature increases, that allows for more water molecules to be held in the air, am I right? (Weather is definitely NOT my teaching strength, LOL! Give me planetary motion and eclipses any day...)



Hair is best when wabi-sabi.
2b/2c at this length, more 3a when shorter
M/C ii

Mod CG: Sept 08
Using: Suave co-wash, GVP Conditioning Balm, Lustrasilk OOC, MGA, BRHG
Humectants: @ dew point 40+
My blog for dry climate curlies and growing out a pixie: Colorado Curly

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