Oh the clumps! The Icequeen Method

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It's Lorraines recipe from the Curly Girl Handbook. Her original recipe is 50/50 Lavender Spray & Veg Glycerin. I use the 4oz sprat bottles and put 1/4 Glycerin and fill the rest with water. It was too heavy for me 50/50. It works great though!!
Originally Posted by DEL2C
I just lent my book to my cousin yesterday and I'm almost out of SIF Where do you get veg glycerin?
Originally Posted by Jess the Mess
At the Health food store or I just got mine from www.iherb.com along with coconut oil and some other stuff.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
There was a thread started 3 days ago about getting clumps with Deva. As a lot of you don't use Deva you probably skipped that thread so I thought I'd share what technique Icequeen shared about how to use your conditioner.
I rake a large amt. of OneC through my hair in the shower, then flip over and scrunch it through until it feels like seaweed and squishes which gets the clumps going. It sits on my hair through the shower routine. I then rinse upside down in cool water and firmly scrunch in a small amt. of OneC
.
I really think this is making such a difference in my clumps forming. I usually don't get big or even medium clumps. I get small ones. I would look at the pics of the wavies on here and long for the clumps they were getting. After a while I just figured it wasn't what my hair was going to do so I let it go. Then I saw the thread and after Icequeen posted I figured I'd pull my Deva out of the cabinet and give it a go. My hair looked GREAT and I had CLUMPS. So the next day I figured I'd try it with my other condish and products to see if it was just the Deva. Again my hair did the same thing...great clumps. And yesterday I did it again with some samples I got from KathyMack (I actually had 2nd day hair for once but couldn't wait to try new stuff) and again I had good results. I really think this is making a huge difference and I wanted to make sure that all you who don't use Deva at least had a chance to try it. BTW if I'm not mistaken, this is how Lorraine Massey herself conditioned Icequeen's hair at a curly event a few years ago.
http://public.fotki.com/JessCurls/going-cg/1000867.html Day 1 All Deva
http://public.fotki.com/JessCurls/going-cg/1000877.html Day 2 GVP condish balm, homemade FSG, BRHG
http://public.fotki.com/JessCurls/going-cg/1000890.html Day 3 KBB milk and Curl Junkie CCCC, I didn't use a gel, hence the frizz

There are more in my Fotki if you want to check them out. And TRY THIS! Thanks again Icequeen!
Originally Posted by Jess the Mess

Sorry to be thick but we don't get this product in the UK as far as I'm aware, what actually is it?

can you give an idea of something similar that may work- normal condish, leave in condish, deep treatment condish? do I assume that you don't wash the small amount out?

Thanks
UK based curly bonce! (Lancs)
silicone, or not to silicone - that is the question!!!

Uses:
CG - australian organics (Holland and Barratt) poo & condish, Louise Galvin Deep condish treatment, boots pink curl creme
non CG - Umberto Gianni pink range, L'Oreal Studio Line Curl Power Controlling Creme
Still searching for the winning combination!!!
Wow, this method may have solved a very big problem for me...

I've been doing my fair share of complaining about my ups and downs with AOHR. My hair is so super dry naturally that I could really use something like this, but it seemed to be really weighing my hair down and making the curls droop.

But now, I've used AOHR two days in a row, figuring I'd give it another try with IceQueen's method of conditioning. And both yesterday and today (and today's hair is totally dry), I've got great curls. Defined, well formed, soft - but that's only been since I used IceQueen's conditioning method. I'll see if I continue with that luck, because I really really want to love AOHR - it seems like, ideally, it should be the perfect conditioner for me: all natural, heavy conditioning for my naturally dry hair, no cones, no proteins (while I try to figure out if I'm protein sensitive or not), and it honestly has really bummed me out that I seemingly couldn't use it. But it could be just that my technique was all wrong. Fingers crossed, and thanks again to IceQueen!
CG since 1/09. Protein and Mag Sulfate sensitive.
Hair Type - 3A.
Co-wash - Jane Carter Solution Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner.
Low-poo as needed - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shampoo.
Cond./Leave-In - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shea Butter Leave-In Conditioner.
Stylers - Jane Carter Solution Condition and Sculpt; Beautiful Curls Curl Defining Gel.
Ok, so I tried this today and it definitely gave me better clumps. But it also gave me a TON of frizz. It is windy today, which may have contributed, but I don't think it totally caused the problem. Is it just because I used a lot more leave in than I usually do? I didn't have to SOTC today, which is weird. I want the clumps, but I don't want crazy frizz with it. How can I get the best of both worlds?
3a
Currently Using: Suave Coconut, Aldi's Biolage Conditioning Balm knockoff, LOOB, and LA Looks sport gel....cheap and simple seems to be working better!
ModCG since 10/31/08
There was a thread started 3 days ago about getting clumps with Deva. As a lot of you don't use Deva you probably skipped that thread so I thought I'd share what technique Icequeen shared about how to use your conditioner.
I rake a large amt. of OneC through my hair in the shower, then flip over and scrunch it through until it feels like seaweed and squishes which gets the clumps going. It sits on my hair through the shower routine. I then rinse upside down in cool water and firmly scrunch in a small amt. of OneC
.
I really think this is making such a difference in my clumps forming. I usually don't get big or even medium clumps. I get small ones. I would look at the pics of the wavies on here and long for the clumps they were getting. After a while I just figured it wasn't what my hair was going to do so I let it go. Then I saw the thread and after Icequeen posted I figured I'd pull my Deva out of the cabinet and give it a go. My hair looked GREAT and I had CLUMPS. So the next day I figured I'd try it with my other condish and products to see if it was just the Deva. Again my hair did the same thing...great clumps. And yesterday I did it again with some samples I got from KathyMack (I actually had 2nd day hair for once but couldn't wait to try new stuff) and again I had good results. I really think this is making a huge difference and I wanted to make sure that all you who don't use Deva at least had a chance to try it. BTW if I'm not mistaken, this is how Lorraine Massey herself conditioned Icequeen's hair at a curly event a few years ago.
http://public.fotki.com/JessCurls/going-cg/1000867.html Day 1 All Deva
http://public.fotki.com/JessCurls/going-cg/1000877.html Day 2 GVP condish balm, homemade FSG, BRHG
http://public.fotki.com/JessCurls/going-cg/1000890.html Day 3 KBB milk and Curl Junkie CCCC, I didn't use a gel, hence the frizz

There are more in my Fotki if you want to check them out. And TRY THIS! Thanks again Icequeen!
Originally Posted by Jess the Mess

Sorry to be thick but we don't get this product in the UK as far as I'm aware, what actually is it?

can you give an idea of something similar that may work- normal condish, leave in condish, deep treatment condish? do I assume that you don't wash the small amount out?

Thanks
Originally Posted by hahgiwoofa
Devacurl gives me great clumps with or without the technique but all my conditioners work better using the technique. Just try it with your normal conditioner and hopefully you will see a difference.

I don't wash the small amt. of leave-in out.

Good luck and let us know if it works for you.
3a Colored, Layered
Currently loving:
Cond: CJ Strengthing, Marie Dean, CJ Curl Rehab
Leave -In: Marie Dean Red Clover, Coconut Lime Detangler and just about the entire line, CJ Rehab
Gelly: UFDCM, Paul Brown Geletine Goo
Towel - HG - Curls Like Us

Always use the "Icequeen" method for products
Thanks Icequeen! I tried this today and got great results!! I co-washed and then did some condish with honey, and then more condish.....rinsed, added a tad more condish, plopped......scrunched in some DML&T and some KCCC and plopped again...diffused..and voila! Great clumps. I will also try this technique with other products. My clumps are back !!
$5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066
Ok, real dunce time!!

I tried this technique last night, the clumps were fab while I had my head upside down, but then when I turned my head over and put in curl creme my hair went fluffier than I've ever seen it - not a blooming clump in sight

Can someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong

All i want is nice curly hair - why does it have to be so hard, straightening was a doddle next to this
UK based curly bonce! (Lancs)
silicone, or not to silicone - that is the question!!!

Uses:
CG - australian organics (Holland and Barratt) poo & condish, Louise Galvin Deep condish treatment, boots pink curl creme
non CG - Umberto Gianni pink range, L'Oreal Studio Line Curl Power Controlling Creme
Still searching for the winning combination!!!
I would rake through your curl cream and scrunch it in while you are leaning forward. Gently cup your hair in your hands and then flip up. Everything at Devachan went in while I was leaning forward, if that helps. It's the firm scrunching that really gets the products going
3a Colored, Layered
Currently loving:
Cond: CJ Strengthing, Marie Dean, CJ Curl Rehab
Leave -In: Marie Dean Red Clover, Coconut Lime Detangler and just about the entire line, CJ Rehab
Gelly: UFDCM, Paul Brown Geletine Goo
Towel - HG - Curls Like Us

Always use the "Icequeen" method for products
Clumps totally elude me....

I did this technique. But its just that whenever anything touches my hair it gets stringly. I even squished till seaweedy and then wrapped my hair without squeezing any moisture out- wet towel!! took all day to dry...

As soon as I squeeze any water out, or put anything in, it stringles (there's a new verb for us). Doesn't matter if I rake or scrunch. stringlets.

arrgh!
Clumps totally elude me....

I did this technique. But its just that whenever anything touches my hair it gets stringly. I even squished till seaweedy and then wrapped my hair without squeezing any moisture out- wet towel!! took all day to dry...

As soon as I squeeze any water out, or put anything in, it stringles (there's a new verb for us). Doesn't matter if I rake or scrunch. stringlets.

arrgh!
Originally Posted by hmixon
What are you using, hmixon? I find that if I use conditioners with high oil content, I don't get clumps. I get stringles. What kind of hair do you have in terms of texture and porosity and thickness? That makes a difference, too.
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
My hair is highly porous, medium dense, coarse and wavy.
I was wondering how hair types affects clumping- I actually posted that exact question yesterday on the thread about hair texture and the best products for each type! I'd love any info you have on that. I think that knowing texture and porosity is so much more important than knowing wave type.

But anyway, I have tried the following conditioners:
Suave Coconut, LPVNG, AOHSR, Vo5TeaTherapy, BiolageCB, LOOC, lime rinse (better smelly than ACV rinse), GDLI

I've tried DTing with Fekkai Shea mask, and also a LOOC/Olive Oil combo.

Right now I am off proteins to see if they are a problem coz I was having major dry and tangle issues.

The following products also haven't helped to reduce stringyness:
FOTE, Joiwhip, HHSMU, HHTTT, ReCoil, Aussie Mousse, Sebastian Potion 9.

And I've tried no combing at all while wet, detangling with wide comb, Denman, a regular comb, and just fingers. No change- stringlets.

If you can help sort this out that'd be awesome! Thanks.
My hair is highly porous, medium dense, coarse and wavy.
I was wondering how hair types affects clumping- I actually posted that exact question yesterday on the thread about hair texture and the best products for each type! I'd love any info you have on that. I think that knowing texture and porosity is so much more important than knowing wave type.

But anyway, I have tried the following conditioners:
Suave Coconut, LPVNG, AOHSR, Vo5TeaTherapy, BiolageCB, LOOC, lime rinse (better smelly than ACV rinse), GDLI

I've tried DTing with Fekkai Shea mask, and also a LOOC/Olive Oil combo.

Right now I am off proteins to see if they are a problem coz I was having major dry and tangle issues.

The following products also haven't helped to reduce stringyness:
FOTE, Joiwhip, HHSMU, HHTTT, ReCoil, Aussie Mousse, Sebastian Potion 9.

And I've tried no combing at all while wet, detangling with wide comb, Denman, a regular comb, and just fingers. No change- stringlets.

If you can help sort this out that'd be awesome! Thanks.
Originally Posted by hmixon
Oh my. You've presented a challenge.

I do think you're probably wise to lay off the proteins -- with coarse hair, you're less likely to need it.

I would have thought that either the Suave or the LPVNG would have given you good clumps. But they haven't, so let's dig deeper.

What is your routine? How are you washing, drying, and styling your hair? Are you CG?
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
I'm modified CG- low-pooing about every 4-6 days. No cones except for the water soluble ones in the styling products.

I've only been at this for two months so I can't say I have a routine down- still experimenting. But generally I am doing minimal right now since at the beginning I was trying all sorts of products all at once and never could decide what was affecting what--no scientific method at all!

So then I decided to first try to find a good low-poo and good condishes That's been my focus for the last 3 weeks. I figured once I had that I'd start experimenting with styling products.

My present routine is to co-wash or low-poo, then put some in for a leave-in and then air dry. I stopped adding stylers or even scrunching much because it caused the stringlets to get so much worse.

I did clarify and then do a DT this last weekend to see if clarifying would help clumps. No change.

For some reason as soon as I remove the water from my hair, whether by scrunching by hand or with a towel (I've tried waffle towels and flour sack towels and fake chamois) it separates.

Adding product like gel when dripping wet hasn't helped- today I may try to add product when I'm partially dry and see what that does. I don't have a regular product routine since I haven't found any that I love. At most I'll use a gel and/or mousse but mostly I don't put in any. I am waiting on an order for BB's FSG to see if that will do miracle clumps for me.

I have awful well water- hard with lots of deposits and iron, so I also rinse with distilled before my leave-in.

I live in GA where the dew point has been hovering in the teens and 20s these last few weeks.

Do you know if the texture and porosity affects clumps?

Thanks!
The well water sent up a big alarm bell for me as I read your post. I don't know a lot about hard water deposits, but I do know that people who deal with them use either water filters or special shampoos. I found this thread but there are several others. It sounds like you are already doing ACV rinses and the like but maybe the hard water is a bigger issue than we realize for you.

Another thing. As I'm sitting here typing this, I have wet, stringly hair -- that I know will scrunch out into decent curls and, because I'm using KCCC today, will gradually turn into clumpy ringlets (takes a few hours but I don't mind waiting!). But you say you aren't really using styling products, so maybe there's more of a tendency for your dry hair to resemble your wet hair. I know that without stylers, I don't get much clumpage. KCCC, Boots curl creme, and Jessicurl's Rockin' Ringlets have been the only products that I can truly say did the job.

So, the stringliness may be due to the hard water, but it may also have something to do with lack of stylers. Somebody else may have to step in here because I honestly can't come up with anything else.

I'd love to probe the texture/porosity and clumps question with somebody like StruttsWife. Maybe she's reading this?
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
Yeah, the water...ugh.
I actually use Malibu Well Water 2000 poo about 1x month because of it. I forgot to mention that. I don't know that I see any difference from it. My husband and I were just researching the Shower Stick the other day (which I learned about on NC.) But we hope to move soon so the water may change for the better then...

But the stringlet issue really only came up for me since I went mod- CG--and the water has remained the same!

I am comforted by what you said about your wet hair being stringletty. Maybe my solution will be the right styling product. I went off all those products coz of the dryness/protein thing. But that is better now.

I've been wanting to try KCCC coz I figured a cream might be good with my hair being coarse and porous. I have been hoping that in that awesome thread on texture, porosity and other hair type madness, Struttswife would soon get to product types so that I don't have to try everything out there!!!!

What is your hair texture and porosity, Jillipoo? I've been hoping to find a close hair type to copy for a while-- are you it???

I'd love to probe the texture/porosity and clumps question with somebody like StruttsWife. Maybe she's reading this?[/quote]

If you have a minute perhaps you could post the question on the Texture, Porosity thread about clumping- because I know that Struttswife is reading that one for sure when she has a chance.

I saw your blog this morning for the first time and look forward to spending some time on it later.

Thank for all your thoughts. The first thing I need to learn is to get more patient with this process!!
I would rake through your curl cream and scrunch it in while you are leaning forward. Gently cup your hair in your hands and then flip up. Everything at Devachan went in while I was leaning forward, if that helps. It's the firm scrunching that really gets the products going
Originally Posted by icequeen
I'll try again, thanks for the advice. just out of interest, does the seaweed scrunching technique but with your head the right way up not work? what is it about being upside down?

My hair seems to get very tempremental when I put product through it, and leave ins make my hair way too soft and flat. My clumps never seem to want to play - and as for second day hair HA!!! first day hair would be nice!!

Since moving toward CG (still need a bit of silicone and sulfate occasionally) my hair has been simultaneously flater and frizzier than ever - It's taking all my power to keep away from John Frieda!!! Is this the transition period everyone mentions? How long will it last!!!!!!
UK based curly bonce! (Lancs)
silicone, or not to silicone - that is the question!!!

Uses:
CG - australian organics (Holland and Barratt) poo & condish, Louise Galvin Deep condish treatment, boots pink curl creme
non CG - Umberto Gianni pink range, L'Oreal Studio Line Curl Power Controlling Creme
Still searching for the winning combination!!!
I'll try again, thanks for the advice. just out of interest, does the seaweed scrunching technique but with your head the right way up not work? what is it about being upside down?
Originally Posted by hahgiwoofa
I think it's that once you flip it upside down and start scrunching, it works the conditioner and/or product more evenly all through your hair. If you're standing upright, you may not get it all underneath - most of it may just wind up on top of the canopy.

I rake it all through too, top first, then flip my head over and do more underneath with the scrunching technique. This way you get all parts of your hair, which, if your hair is thick, you don't want to miss any sections.
CG since 1/09. Protein and Mag Sulfate sensitive.
Hair Type - 3A.
Co-wash - Jane Carter Solution Nutrient Replenishing Conditioner.
Low-poo as needed - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shampoo.
Cond./Leave-In - Beautiful Curls Curl Enhancing Shea Butter Leave-In Conditioner.
Stylers - Jane Carter Solution Condition and Sculpt; Beautiful Curls Curl Defining Gel.
I'll try again, thanks for the advice. just out of interest, does the seaweed scrunching technique but with your head the right way up not work? what is it about being upside down?
Originally Posted by hahgiwoofa
I think it's that once you flip it upside down and start scrunching, it works the conditioner and/or product more evenly all through your hair. If you're standing upright, you may not get it all underneath - most of it may just wind up on top of the canopy.
Originally Posted by LisaF1163
I've been scrunching right side up and been getting much better clumps than I usually do.
I'll have to try it upside down to see if I get even better results!
3b in australia
I'm tempted to try this method since I've been getting skinnier clumps with MGA sculpting gel but I'm a bit wary about rinsing upside down in the shower. I've tried it once before a while back and just got water up my nose.

Are you guys doing this in a bathtub or in a shower with a hand showerhead? I have a rain showerhead much like this http://www.chinashowerrooms.com/Show...hower-Head.jpg so it's not as user friendly for upside down rinsing.
2 b/c :: slight protein sensitivity :: med/coarse texture :: normal porosity

Location: SoCal
http://public.fotki.com/Helloitsio/
http://skinandhairjunkie.wordpress.com/
I'm tempted to try this method since I've been getting skinnier clumps with MGA sculpting gel but I'm a bit wary about rinsing upside down in the shower. I've tried it once before a while back and just got water up my nose.

Are you guys doing this in a bathtub or in a shower with a hand showerhead? I have a rain showerhead much like this http://www.chinashowerrooms.com/Show...hower-Head.jpg so it's not as user friendly for upside down rinsing.
Originally Posted by helloitsio
I have a similar showerhead and it works ok. I stand a bit away from the shower so the water isn't hitting too far back on my head, hold my nose and close my eyes.

I don't know why but doing the final rinse upside down in cool water really does seem to make a difference!
Hair type: 2c-M-ii with extra frizz

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