MOP-C **UPDATE** Build Up issues


Don't think it's the castor oil. Even I can use PEG castor oil--at least PEG 40, which is in the CJ Coffee Coco CC.

Not sure what it could be. MOP C didn't do anything for me--no curl, no anything. Can't remember how my hair felt.
Originally Posted by kathymack

Even so, a lot of people are bothered by castor oil. I can only use it occasionally and then I have to low-poo well to get it out. I have to really be careful how often I use ArcAngell and LOOB because of their castor oil. I think it's MsG that can't use it whatsoever. That combined with the other oils may just be too much even in someone that might normally be able to handle it.

And Hockeymomof3 may be right about the polyquat. The higher the number on a PEG/PPG modified ingredient, the better, according to an old Curly Chemist article - higher number=more water soluble.
Originally Posted by auntnett
Don't remember about msg, but I'm the one who usually talks about serious issues with castor oil. The CV bars made my hair dry and frizzy because of castor oil, as did the original formula of the Komaza Coconut pudding. However, I can use the PEG castor oil--especially the higher ones like in the CJ Coffee Coco Curl creme.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Maybe it was you then, LOL - hard to keep up with who says what sometimes! If so, I had thought you meant all castor oil, not just unmodified. Even the PEG castor bothers me if used too frequently. In fact, I don't think I've used anything that had CO that wasn't PEG modified. I must low-poo after using it even if I just did at my last washing.
2C/3A/3B - modified CG - med./fine, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, YTCarrots or Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite, KCCC, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

www.fotki.com/auntnett
And Hockeymomof3 may be right about the polyquat. The higher the number on a PEG/PPG modified ingredient, the better, according to an old Curly Chemist article - higher number=more water soluble.



WOW, this is new to me! I need to find this article!! Thanks for posting this it's the first I've learned about this. I always thought it was the opposite?! I'm sure I read that somewhere

To add to my complications of build up, I just read that the Salt added in Water Softeners can build up over time so a weekly clarifying is suggested. ACV may not be enough to combat all of these things combined! I'm off to get some GVP Clarifying Shampoo which I just learned is discontinued you can't even get it on
Sally's web site. I know the girls on the LHC love the Nexus Aloe Rid it's supposed to be very gentle.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

Last edited by DEL2C; 03-17-2009 at 09:55 AM.
I heard back from our Curl Chemist and this is the "gist" of why MOP-C causes us so many problems.


Polyquat 11 is more prone to buildup. The number is not idnicative of anything except ass a code to determine what the structure is, so you can't make a blanket statement, such as 4 being easier to remove than 5 or 6 or 7. The nomenclature system is not like that for these types of polymers. They are all different structures, completely.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
If experience is any indicator, I have to agree with Curl Chemist 100%. I despise Polyquat 11. I've never used a product with it that hasn't made my hair feel like crap.

Thanks for the getting the clarification on the numbers, though -- that's very helpful!
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
I despise Polyquat 11.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
This sounds like an evil planet on Star Trek. Where they all have bad hair.
2-something? Coarse, medium underneath. Mid-back. On CG since 5/9/07.
Washing COs: VO5 Blackberry, Suave Cherry
Detangle and leave-in: Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm -- I found my HG CO!
Seal with camellia oil
Leave-in: Aura cherry almond
Gels: Homemade FSG, Eco-styler
Plus: SOTC or smooth with camellia oil, JC Nourish & Shine
Homemade food-based DTs
RC color
I despise Polyquat 11.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
This sounds like an evil planet on Star Trek. Where they all have bad hair.
Originally Posted by RozettaStone
LOL!! And the only salvation for them is to find sodium lauryl sulfate for a good cleanse.... (Their equivalent of dilithium crystals!)
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
I read this in light of this new info to "me" but I have to read it again it's a lot to take in!!! I've avoided paying attention to polyquats (yet ANOTHER ingredient to watch out for ugh....) because I figured I was safe with my low poos but now I'm not so sure........

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...nce-ingredient
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
I despise Polyquat 11.
Originally Posted by jillipoo
This sounds like an evil planet on Star Trek. Where they all have bad hair.
Originally Posted by RozettaStone
LOL!! And the only salvation for them is to find sodium lauryl sulfate for a good cleanse.... (Their equivalent of dilithium crystals!)
Originally Posted by jillipoo
Wasn't Lauryl Sulfate the sexy but evil chick in a cat suit who tangles with Kirk? Or am I getting mixed up again? (Blame it on those durned polyquats!)
2-something? Coarse, medium underneath. Mid-back. On CG since 5/9/07.
Washing COs: VO5 Blackberry, Suave Cherry
Detangle and leave-in: Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm -- I found my HG CO!
Seal with camellia oil
Leave-in: Aura cherry almond
Gels: Homemade FSG, Eco-styler
Plus: SOTC or smooth with camellia oil, JC Nourish & Shine
Homemade food-based DTs
RC color
http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/search?q=polyquat
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
I was reading an article in an airport bookstore (so many magazines, so long a layover) that was talking about different products working differently despite having similar ingredients. The subject was skincare-based, but the content would still apply.

The author stated that sometimes one ingredient isn't the problem (in this context, it was about causing breakouts) but how the ingredient combination interacts. Perhaps it's not a polyquat or oil that's the problem but (A) the ingredients in MOP being combined with each other or in the order they are combined so that you have oily polyquats or something similar or (B) the combined ingredients in the MOP with the Devacurl pomade on top.

You may want to crosspost this on the Curl Chemist article ideas thread:

Curl Chemist Article ideas
2b w/ some 3a
product tester geek
I was reading an article in an airport bookstore (so many magazines, so long a layover) that was talking about different products working differently despite having similar ingredients. The subject was skincare-based, but the content would still apply.

The author stated that sometimes one ingredient isn't the problem (in this context, it was about causing breakouts) but how the ingredient combination interacts. Perhaps it's not a polyquat or oil that's the problem but (A) the ingredients in MOP being combined with each other or in the order they are combined so that you have oily polyquats or something similar or (B) the combined ingredients in the MOP with the Devacurl pomade on top.

You may want to crosspost this on the Curl Chemist article ideas thread:

Curl Chemist Article ideas
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
Laurabeth, thank you for posting this. This has been a concern of mine for several months because as we try to educate ourselves here, we dissect ingredient lists without remembering that sometimes it's the combination of ingredients that is important and not just each ingredient by itself. (A lot like nutrition content of food: Often its the synergy of ingredients that makes something either tasty or nutritious.)

I'm going to be dedicating a new feature of my blog to ingredient and standard combinations and this article is going to help immensely. Thanks so much!
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
I read this in light of this new info to "me" but I have to read it again it's a lot to take in!!! I've avoided paying attention to polyquats (yet ANOTHER ingredient to watch out for ugh....) because I figured I was safe with my low poos but now I'm not so sure........

http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...nce-ingredient
Originally Posted by DEL2C
I knew right away that the evil polyquats were to blame when I had a bad experience with Mop-C Curl Cream. That was over a year ago and the advice at the time was that a low-poo would remove the build-up. Well, it didn't. I had to resort to a fairly harsh SLS shampoo and then quite a few DT's to bring my hair back into decent shape.

Now, I avoid polyquats like The Plague, regardless of the number. They're all evil!
I was reading an article in an airport bookstore (so many magazines, so long a layover) that was talking about different products working differently despite having similar ingredients. The subject was skincare-based, but the content would still apply.

The author stated that sometimes one ingredient isn't the problem (in this context, it was about causing breakouts) but how the ingredient combination interacts. Perhaps it's not a polyquat or oil that's the problem but (A) the ingredients in MOP being combined with each other or in the order they are combined so that you have oily polyquats or something similar or (B) the combined ingredients in the MOP with the Devacurl pomade on top.

You may want to crosspost this on the Curl Chemist article ideas thread:

Curl Chemist Article ideas
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
This is interesting LB, I do know for certain the Deva pomade is not to blame at all. I continue to use it with all sorts of other combinations and haven't had any more build up issues. The combo with Mop-C may have proved to be too much, that's hard to say for sure....I don't have any other products that have Poly-11 so I can't compare. I will suggest to Tonya to delve further into this. The reply I got in my first e-mail inquiry was a one word Poly-11. I had to e-mail her again for a more detailed explanation, that wasn't enough for me!! I'm definitely turning into a geek.... I think I will still avoid Poly-11 for now......So far none of the other polyquats are giving me trouble such as CK and BOOTS. Recoil is a mystery with it's Poly-55 I can't find any info on that one. I don't remember reading any build up issues in the past with Recoil, everyone seems to dislike it because of the Mag Sulphate primarily. But the texture has bothered some too, who knows if it's the polyquat-55 or not??
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
Thanks for the complements on the Curl Chemist thread, DEL2C, and jillipoo.

While I think a few ingredients are bad news uniformly, I use products with drying alcohols near the end of the ingredient list because they are being used as part of the preservative system. Context is so important.
2b w/ some 3a
product tester geek
Polyquat-11 is generally recommended for mousses and creams, where it can moisturize as well as aid in styling. This polymer is water miscible, but not water soluble. This could lead to some build-up over time if one were not using a clarifying shampoo occasionally.
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...nce-ingredient

laurabeth ITA with you about context & I've been learning a lot about how product formulation is so important and not just single ingredients. With Poly-11 we do have to be more careful because it isn't water soluble. If Mop C had a stronger surfactant included in it's formulation it would be easier to remove but build up is inevitable if you don't use shampoo. We're a strange cult, most people use shampoos regularly so they don't worry about these things!
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

Last edited by DEL2C; 09-16-2009 at 06:52 PM.
I just looked on Curlisto Strutura Lotion and Polyquat 11 is the SECOND ingredient after water. Yikes. Reminder to self: Don't use this. Better yet, toss it.

Glad you all are keeping on top of these issues. I had build up from Mop-C Curl Cream. Sometimes I feel like tossing in the towel (flour sack?) and just using a sulfate poo occasionally.
2/c and some 3A. Modified CG.
Protein sensitive
Highly porous. Color over grey.
Best 1st day method: Super Soaker
Conditioners: Curl Junkie Beauticurls Strengthening Conditioner,
Deep condish: Curl Junkie Curl Rehab
Stylers: Mix Curls in a Bottle into everything for shine. Terrible pj
Sometimes try roller sets - classic glamor but I prefer my curls.
Every day is a gift
I JUST ordered 2 bottles of MOP-C not 2 hours ago!!
HAIR DESCRIPTION:
Wavy, Coarse Porous & Dry

FAVORITE PRODUCTS:

CJDF(Co-Wash)
CJH&B (Rinse out)
CCCC Lite
CIAB
Biosilk Rock Hard Gel or HESMU
Del, I cannot get over how knowledgeable you have become in the past year!!

I think its time you start a blog, dearie.
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
Del, I cannot get over how knowledgeable you have become in the past year!!

I think its time you start a blog, dearie.
Originally Posted by rudeechick
Or perhaps there is some sort of employment you could take up so you could actually get paid for this. Seriously, you have SO much information and the applied research you do must be worth something! I see a consulting job in your future...
Wavy, curly on the ends, 2C.
Coarse to medium textured, porous, dry, and lots of it.
Shampoo--HSH Pumpkin, Abba Pure Moisture
LVPNG, HSH Pumpkin, Walgreen's Knockoffs--Condish/Cowash
AOHR, Nexxus, EO--LI
CK & ReCoil--Activator
Suave Max Hold, Alagio Curl-Gel
For inquiring minds who want to know:
http://www.public.fotki.com/TillyErnissee
Del, I cannot get over how knowledgeable you have become in the past year!!

I think its time you start a blog, dearie.
Originally Posted by rudeechick
Or perhaps there is some sort of employment you could take up so you could actually get paid for this. Seriously, you have SO much information and the applied research you do must be worth something! I see a consulting job in your future...
Originally Posted by TillyMunchyWaves
Thanks guys

What can I say?? I've just read and read and consulted with other knowledgeable Curlies, Stylists, Chemists, Product Developers etc. I have an inquiring mind!!!

I wish I could turn this into a job somehow!!! But mostly, I like to investigate as much as possible! I clarify once a month or so with Aloe Rid anyways and I'll be sure to not use Mop too often. Plus, it won't necessarily build up the same way on every head! I happen to have very Picky hair and it likes to absorb too much. This stuff works really great and if you're using small amounts your hair may not freak. Only one way to know for sure and that is try it.........
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

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