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Old 04-28-2009, 05:30 AM   #1
 
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Thumbs down I think I've gone off oil....

My hair has reached absolutely crisis point, at the risk of sounding melodramatic!!

For the past few months I've been concentrating on using oil a lot - eg. apricot oil, but more often coconut oil. I've been either using it as a serum, or slathering it on then shampooing it off (always needs a lot of shampoo).

Anyway, my hair is absolutely parched and has even broken off in places! I'm starting to think that the oil makes my hair look healthy by coating it, but in fact it is dry as a bone from all the shampoo. It might not be the cause of the dryness, but I do wonder... Anyone else had issues with oil?

I'm going back to the drawing board and just going to avoid shampoo for as long as possible...

I hate my hair!!!!!!!!
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:50 AM   #2
 
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Pelicano,

While I cannot give you any advice on oil, as I do not use it myself, I can give you (((hugs)))!

It will be ok! The veterans here will have many suggestions on how to fix your issue, so it will be ok!

Jenn
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:46 AM   #3
 
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Thanks!

I'm thinking it must be a moisture v protein issue, but can't really get to the bottom of it at the moment. My hair is v fine.
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:41 AM   #4
 
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My hair loooooves oil but doesn't always like protein. It depends on the KIND of proteins. It loooves dairy and hates silk.

Anyway... questions for you...

What shampoo are you using?

What conditioner are you using?

Are you using anything else on your hair?

Waxes, silicones, mineral oil, polyquats, and other things are often a problem for curlies. If you post what you're using besides just the oils, we can look to see if there is something else we think is likely and perhaps we can help steer you in the right direction.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:53 AM   #5
 
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Thanks

Basically, due to my scalp (I have seborrheic dermatitis), I have to go as natural as possible. I have found for a while that I can't tolerate conditioners, which is why I had switched to oils. Today I pulled out an old one which I just hope my scalp can cope with, in the hope that I could improve my hair, but my scalp is currently itching like mad.

Anyway, shampoo-wise, I try to only shampoo approx once per week these days. I have an SLS-free one that I use, but if do a deep conditioning treatment with oil, I've found that I have to use an SLS shampoo to get it out, plus I have to use quite a lot of it too.

After I've done the oil treatments my hair feels silky soft, so I'm confused as to why it is breaking etc. I've never done any sort of protein treatment, so I wonder if that is what I am lacking. I use no gels or anything like that - neither my hair or scalp can tolerate them.

When my hair is wet it has always looked great, but dries fluffy/fuzzy, if that gives any clues.
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:51 PM   #6
 
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Pelicano, I'm sorry for your distress. Sounds like you're in quite a frustrating situation.

I don't know exactly what kind of hair you have, but from what you've described:
- oil making hair crispy
- dries fluffy/fuzzy
- no protein use

I think I spy a hair twin of sorts! If I use a lot of oil, my hair gets crispy, too (which is why, although I do use it every night, I only distribute about a nickel-size worth through my hair -- it's enough to soften but not so much that shampoo is required to remove it). Also, my hair will always dry fluffy and fuzzy if I don't use gel, almost no matter how much conditioner I use.

If your hair is on the fine side, you might want to consider some protein. It did wonders for my hair and maybe that's what yours is craving.

Do you know what it was in the conditioners that was aggravating your seborrheic dermatitis? "Natural" is not always the answer to these problems. What does your dermatologist say/advise?
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CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:55 PM   #7
 
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Thanks - that's really helpful. I'm going to try some protein, and hope my scalp can cope...

I don't know what it is in conditioners that my scalp can't cope with. Even when I apply it from half way down my hair only and rinse it out well, I guess there is still some residue that bothers my scalp. I find oil quite good for my scalp, so it's a pain if my hair doesn't like it!!

I think I will have to keep using a tiny amount of oil just to tame my hair though. I can't go round with the fluffies that I have today!
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:02 PM   #8
 
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Jillipoo, I meant to ask - what is your hair like immediately after using a lot of oil and shampooing it off? For me, my hair feels good afterwards (quite smooth), so I'm not sure...
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:13 PM   #9
 
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Hi there,

I hope you are getting some answers, I was reading through your post and wondered if you have hard water, if so have you tried a acv rinse? also have you tried any homemade dt's my hair loves honey, avacado, bananas and coconut milk. not neccessarily all at the same time but you could i suppose. if you read around here you may be able to come up with a concoction you can use as a conditioner for your scalp and hair that won't give you a reaction. I guess what I am saying is try going more natural by making your own concoctions. The shampoo though will def make your hair crispy if you have to use one try finding one with no sulphates.

good luck to you
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:19 PM   #10
 
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Pelicano, I have SD, too, and hair similar to yours and Jillipoo's, I think. Might I suggest that if Giovanni products are available in the UK that you try co-washing with their Tea Tree Triple Treat conditioner with maybe the occasional low-poo with the shampoo? They both contain tea tree oil and peppermint oil, are all organic and sulfate free. I leave either on my scalp for a few minutes for best results. My scalp has done better since using them than with any regime or with any medicated shampoo, prescription or over-the-counter, that I've ever tried. The occasional ACV rinse helps, too, as does applying aloe vera gel to hair and scalp while sopping wet first thing out of the shower.

I can't use much oil at all and if I do only sparingly so that it doesn't require more than a light low-poo, if that. I find my hair absorbs jojoba better than most oils, and it's supposed to be closest to your scalp's natural oil. I can also use coconut some but have to be careful not to overdo it. Most other oils just sit on it and then take shampoo to remove them.

Like Jillipoo, I almost always have to use some gel to seal whatever else I use, or I get fluff and fuzz, too.
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Old 04-28-2009, 02:40 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auntnett View Post
Pelicano, I have SD, too, and hair similar to yours and Jillipoo's, I think. Might I suggest that if Giovanni products are available in the UK that you try co-washing with their Tea Tree Triple Treat conditioner with maybe the occasional low-poo with the shampoo? They both contain tea tree oil and peppermint oil, are all organic and sulfate free. I leave either on my scalp for a few minutes for best results. My scalp has done better since using them than with any regime or with any medicated shampoo, prescription or over-the-counter, that I've ever tried. The occasional ACV rinse helps, too, as does applying aloe vera gel to hair and scalp while sopping wet first thing out of the shower.
I would have to agree with auntnett on the giovanni condish. I love it. I have SD as well. I don't even use the shampoo...happily using just the conditioner. I occasionally use an ACV rinse if I use a different co-wash. The condish does make your head tingle, but it isn't bothersome. Afterwards, my head is quite relieved of the itching. I only co-wash every few days...4 or 5 or something. Protein, as suggested, might help as well.
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:31 PM   #12
 
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Thanks for the tips!
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:26 PM   #13
 
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If you're having issues with sensitive scalp, you might try switching to the shampoo bars. Kathymack, on the boards here, makes and sells some really nice ones. Because they are SOAP and liquid detergent/surfactants, they work differently than conventional shampoos. You might be able to get some better results with that.

You also probably want ot make double sure that what ever you've been using does NOT contain:

Sulfates - they make a lot of us itch (me in particular )
Silicones - since silicones can cause a lot of the problems you're talking about
Polyquats - this is another common source of itching among us curlies

You can hit the "curly chemist" and read more about them if you're interested.

Other than that, start comparing the ingredients in all the things that make you itch. Figure out what they have in common. Go from there with your detective work. Introduce the ingredients back into your hair care one at a time and see if you can isolate the culprit.

In the mean time a good slathering of aloe gel might make you feel better. If you're not worried about lightening your hair or if you can stay out of the sun, a good chamomile rinse might help you.

Get some chamomile tea (make sure it's all Chamomile) or do what I do - go to the hispanic grocery and buy manzilla. If you use tea bags make it triple strenght and make enough to really cover your scalp. If you buy the raw chamomile, you'll have to brew and strain it. I strain it once through a strainer like most use for FSG. Then I strain it a second time through a coffee filter since that catches all the smaller bits. That way you're not picking herbs out of your hair. You will need at least 3T of dry herb per cup of water.

HTH.... I know what's it like to be endlessly itchy and how just absolutely insane it can make you.
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Old 05-06-2009, 09:27 AM   #14
 
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Hmm... I'm really not sure what to think now, as I have been experimenting with protein. I've used protein twice in a week now (the first time was an egg and oil 'pack' on my hair, and the 2nd was a high protein conditioner I've just bought).

Both times my hair has gone very very soft (it feels really nice), but incredibly fluffy, ie not curly, but fluffy (not a good look!)

I'm baffled on the protein/moisture thing.
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:12 AM   #15
 
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I'm kind of in the same boat. I just did a protein treatment this weekend, and my hair is super fluffy. I did the Nexxus Emergencee and then put my conditioning balm on for an hour or so after that. Mine still has curl but is really fluffy...it isn't bad, but I thought it would really curl up with protein.
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:28 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pelicano View Post
Jillipoo, I meant to ask - what is your hair like immediately after using a lot of oil and shampooing it off? For me, my hair feels good afterwards (quite smooth), so I'm not sure...
I am just now seeing this question. For some reason, I did not get an email notification. Grrrr.

And the answer is.... .I don't know! I have never used a lot of oil and had to shampoo it off. But I do know that some people do this whenever they shampoo because it helps to reduce the stripping of natural oils that shampoo is famous for. If this worked for you, you might want to make a habit of it....
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3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
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Old 05-06-2009, 11:36 PM   #17
 
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pelicano and curry curls: What a baffling reaction for your hair to be having. We must get to the bottom of it.

So you are both doing protein treatments and following them up with highly moisturizing conditioners? This seems like a good thing to do. But you are fluffy, which makes me wonder if the conditioners are possibly *too* moisturizing, even as after-protein treatments.

The reason I say this is because whenever I would use Jessicurl's WDT, I would get soft and fluffy, and that's a pretty serious moisturizing treatment. Once I stopped using that (either alone or after a protein treatment), I got better results. I use AOHR after a protein treatment now (just leave it on for about 3 minutes) and the results are good.

Curry Curls, maybe an hour of the conditioning balm is too long?

Pelicano, are you using anything after the protein treatment?
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3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


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Old 05-07-2009, 06:27 AM   #18
 
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Thanks! I'm still so baffled (head might even explode! )

Here's what I did that got exactly the same fluffy-not-very-curly reaction:
Sunday - egg and emu oil, soaked for one hour. Shampooed out, then applied usual conditioner

Wednesday - water wash only (haven't shampooed since Sunday), then high protein conditioner, left for a few minutes

So the only thing in common is the high protein content, unless I'm missing something.

It's weird though, as it feels so soft with the fluff, which isn't anything I've experienced before. It almost feels like I need to put up with the fluff just to get healthier hair.

I'm thinking more and more that my hair is very porous, so it's hard to get moisture in and, since it's so fine, it probably wants protein too.

*brain explodes*
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Sarah.

Based in the UK. 2-something (2b?) hair. Very porous, fine and brittle/fragile

Hair loves: Drip drying, glycerine, shea butter, oils
Hair hates: Plopping, any kind of gel, most conditioners (scalp issues).
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:03 AM   #19
 
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pelicano when you're done exploding take a look at this and see if it helps you

Can oils be drying or is it a hidden protein?

Also, when doing a Protein TX you can try an ACV rinse immediately afterwards to seal in the moisture. If your hair is porous you'll love ACV rinses too, just not too often. Once or twice a month.

If you can post all of the ingredients to the products you're using that would help us too. You should be able to find them on-line and copy/paste. We're just going by what you're telling us, but without seeing what's in your products, it's going to be really hard to get the bottom of it.

ETA: keep in mind too that Oils alone are not moisturizing if not combined with other moisturizing ingredients. Can you get some Shea Butter where you are??
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:31 AM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillipoo View Post
pelicano and curry curls: What a baffling reaction for your hair to be having. We must get to the bottom of it.

So you are both doing protein treatments and following them up with highly moisturizing conditioners? This seems like a good thing to do. But you are fluffy, which makes me wonder if the conditioners are possibly *too* moisturizing, even as after-protein treatments.

The reason I say this is because whenever I would use Jessicurl's WDT, I would get soft and fluffy, and that's a pretty serious moisturizing treatment. Once I stopped using that (either alone or after a protein treatment), I got better results. I use AOHR after a protein treatment now (just leave it on for about 3 minutes) and the results are good.

Curry Curls, maybe an hour of the conditioning balm is too long?

Pelicano, are you using anything after the protein treatment?
This is my first time doing a protein treatment. I was deathly afraid of my hair being all dry and brittle after I did it...had visions of my hair all falling out, probably because it was falling out for some reason a while back but is fine now. Anyhoo, it actually didn't feel bad after I did the treatment, but I put the conditioning balm on anyway. Maybe my hair is pretty healthy now and doesn't need a treatment. I also didn't use anything to style with afterwards so it isn't weighed down at all. I did this Sunday and today my hair is still fluffy...could be humidity related. I haven't washed since Sunday. I'm not unhappy with it, but I was expecting more curls. It did perk up and have more life after I started using my protein conditioner after a couple of months of not using it. I guess my hair just might not need a strong dose of protein. I'll see how it does after I co-wash it next. It might just need styling products. I usually leave in my conditioning balm and have had no problems with that.

Didn't mean to take over your problem, pelicano. If I find something that takes my fluff away then I'll let you know.
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Rinse out: GVP Conditioning Balm
Leave-in/Styling: Kenra Moisturizing Conditioner with Shea Moisture Curl Enhancing Smoothie on top
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