I know this is controversial, but....

I totally empathize; I'm coming into warmer weather with tighter curls than a year ago, but it's also been getting frizzy again. I'm going to have to do some experimenting too; so far I've discovered that DM curl creme is not so great--and it's been an HG through out the winter & spring! KCCC definitely works better now, less frizz. I'm also not getting near a towel, just letting my hair airdry as much as possible. I don't dare touch my hair when I diffuse--wonder what I'll do to get 2nd day tomorrow?
3a/b
Wash: CJ Daily Fix, KM shampoo bars, Giovanni 50:50 Clarifying
Co-wash/Condish: Curls Coconut Sublime Moisturizing Conditioner
LI & Styling: KBB milk, CJ Beauticurls LI, CJ Coffee-Coco Curl Lite cream, CJ CIAB
DT: CJ Hibiscus & Banana Deep Fix, Shea Butter

http://public.fotki.com/sharon5152/
Is it long enough for you to put it into a bun? That seems to straighten my hair more. Can you brush it or comb it out more in the shower (with CO in it) and then not scrunch much at all? Cut out any curl-enhancing stuff you're using, anything with mag sulfate (but you still would want to keep your moisturizing stuff going).

Some of the 4 ladies try to lengthen or reduce curls, so you could probably learn something on those boards; I've gotten a lot of great info over there for improving my dry hair.

As a 2, of course, I wish I had your problem. I dream of having 3b hair, in some other lifetime.
Originally Posted by RozettaStone
Wow, the 4 boards! I honestly would not have thought of that! Great idea!

As for the bun; yes I have done that, but I have layers and I dont know if I can get them all... will try again.... Thanks
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
I totally empathize; I'm coming into warmer weather with tighter curls than a year ago, but it's also been getting frizzy again. I'm going to have to do some experimenting too; so far I've discovered that DM curl creme is not so great--and it's been an HG through out the winter & spring! KCCC definitely works better now, less frizz. I'm also not getting near a towel, just letting my hair airdry as much as possible. I don't dare touch my hair when I diffuse--wonder what I'll do to get 2nd day tomorrow?
Originally Posted by sharon5152
I just ordered a bunch of the CJ products. I didnt think to order the condish tho.... do you love it?
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
You're not alone. I have 3b and I've done everything i can think of to loosen it up a bit. I even did the coconut milk and lime relaxer but it didn't do anything really but make a sticky mess. I'd love for my curl to be much more lose than it is. I'm thinking out loud here... is your hair drier than it has been? When I started CG a month ago, my curl was bordering on the 3c range. It's loosened up to a 3b. I think it was terribly dry then and has relaxed some with all the moisture it's been receiving. Also, i used the Garnier Fructis sleek n shine fortifying conditioner as a leave in (cone free) and it did seem to relax my curls some. It's a little heavy and has a fair amount of oils in it but it did seem to lengthen my curls some when using it.
Ok I can totally relate. After 6 months of trying to get 3a curls instead of 2c waves I finally got consistent ringlets for over a month and guess what...I ended up not liking it as much as my waves. I lost all the volume and fullness (I know not what you want but I need it) that I loved with my waves and now I'm doing everything to go back to my true waves.

Lately I have been styling with conditioner only and it has really helped relax my ringlets while still staying frizz free. I know when the humidity creeps in I'll have to add a gel but for now it's working great.
High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

You're not alone. I have 3b and I've done everything i can think of to loosen it up a bit. I even did the coconut milk and lime relaxer but it didn't do anything really but make a sticky mess. I'd love for my curl to be much more lose than it is. I'm thinking out loud here... is your hair drier than it has been? When I started CG a month ago, my curl was bordering on the 3c range. It's loosened up to a 3b. I think it was terribly dry then and has relaxed some with all the moisture it's been receiving. Also, i used the Garnier Fructis sleek n shine fortifying conditioner as a leave in (cone free) and it did seem to relax my curls some. It's a little heavy and has a fair amount of oils in it but it did seem to lengthen my curls some when using it.
Originally Posted by tinah
My hair was dry when I went CG a year ago from all the ironing. I would consider it normal now. Unfortunately, the healthier it gets, the more its curls!!
Ok I can totally relate. After 6 months of trying to get 3a curls instead of 2c waves I finally got consistent ringlets for over a month and guess what...I ended up not liking it as much as my waves. I lost all the volume and fullness (I know not what you want but I need it) that I loved with my waves and now I'm doing everything to go back to my true waves.

Lately I have been styling with conditioner only and it has really helped relax my ringlets while still staying frizz free. I know when the humidity creeps in I'll have to add a gel but for now it's working great.
Originally Posted by Jess the Mess
I wonder what my hair would do without gel to contains its sheer mass?? I may need to revisit some of the products I rejected last year when I was a 2....
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
I also agree with the looking at the 4s suggestion. Most products made for 4s have very little "hold" like a gel but are mostly creamy. If I use products like KCCC, Komaza coconut curl pudding, or Ohm Sweet hair pudding alone I stil get frizz control without the volume that gel adds.
High Priestess JessMess, follower of the Goddess of the Coiling Way and Confiscator of Concoctions in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

Rudee, I was just reading some articles on CurlyNikki's blog (which is awesome, by the way -- I've learned a lot from it and I'm sort of obsessed with her gorgeous hair), and I saw something that might be of interest to you:

"The best part is that upon rinsing, my hair behaved as if I had just henna'ed: looser curls, tons of definiton and lots of body and shine. It felt (and still feels) so soft, almost unreal. I think I'm in love " -- CurlyNikki on bentonite clay, at
http://www.curlynikki.com/search/lab...duct%20Reviews

(You might have to scroll down to get to this article; it's dated 1/14/09.)

I know there are also threads on bentonite clay on NC (probably on the 4 boards); IIRC, SuburbanBushBabe uses it. Funny thing is I was never sure what it was or how to buy it, but it turns out that I actually HAVE a tub of the same Aztec Secret clay shown on Nikki's page! I'll have to dig it out and try it on my hair. I remember really liking it on my skin, but it was somewhat messy to deal with.

Hope this helps!
2-something? Coarse, medium underneath. Mid-back. On CG since 5/9/07.
Washing COs: VO5 Blackberry, Suave Cherry
Detangle and leave-in: Sally's GVP Conditioning Balm -- I found my HG CO!
Seal with camellia oil
Leave-in: Aura cherry almond
Gels: Homemade FSG, Eco-styler
Plus: SOTC or smooth with camellia oil, JC Nourish & Shine
Homemade food-based DTs
RC color
I can totally relate, I would love for my curls to be looser. The front and sides of my hair are 3a and they're ok but the back is just a mass of 3b and I can't seem to get them any different. Such a pain.
I never scrunch product in, just rake, smooth and squeeze. It does break up my curls somewhat but when I'm finished putting product in I wet my hands and just sort of gently squeeze the curls back together. I will say though that my hair's thin and while this is enough clumping for me, it may not be for you.
I leave my hair to dry for an hour or so then diffuse - I use a sock diffuser and don't touch my hair until it's dry, then gently squeeze the curls to get rid of crunch, I never scrunch upwards and would never pixiecurl diffuse as I'd get too much volume and frizz.
I think doing all that helps keep my curls as loose as they can be.

ps. I can also relate to your other thread about your hair misbehaving - mine's gone haywire the last few weeks and I now am just having constant ponytails as I'm defeated and don't know what to try next!
3b in South Australia.
Loving the support ladies!

I also agree with the looking at the 4s suggestion. Most products made for 4s have very little "hold" like a gel but are mostly creamy. If I use products like KCCC, Komaza coconut curl pudding, or Ohm Sweet hair pudding alone I stil get frizz control without the volume that gel adds.
Originally Posted by Jess the Mess
Gonna check those boards out, as well as those products!
Rudee, I was just reading some articles on CurlyNikki's blog (which is awesome, by the way -- I've learned a lot from it and I'm sort of obsessed with her gorgeous hair), and I saw something that might be of interest to you:

"The best part is that upon rinsing, my hair behaved as if I had just henna'ed: looser curls, tons of definiton and lots of body and shine. It felt (and still feels) so soft, almost unreal. I think I'm in love " -- CurlyNikki on bentonite clay, at
http://www.curlynikki.com/search/lab...duct%20Reviews

(You might have to scroll down to get to this article; it's dated 1/14/09.)

I know there are also threads on bentonite clay on NC (probably on the 4 boards); IIRC, SuburbanBushBabe uses it. Funny thing is I was never sure what it was or how to buy it, but it turns out that I actually HAVE a tub of the same Aztec Secret clay shown on Nikki's page! I'll have to dig it out and try it on my hair. I remember really liking it on my skin, but it was somewhat messy to deal with.

Hope this helps!
Originally Posted by RozettaStone
I MUST look into this!!
I can totally relate, I would love for my curls to be looser. The front and sides of my hair are 3a and they're ok but the back is just a mass of 3b and I can't seem to get them any different. Such a pain.
I never scrunch product in, just rake, smooth and squeeze. It does break up my curls somewhat but when I'm finished putting product in I wet my hands and just sort of gently squeeze the curls back together. I will say though that my hair's thin and while this is enough clumping for me, it may not be for you.
I leave my hair to dry for an hour or so then diffuse - I use a sock diffuser and don't touch my hair until it's dry, then gently squeeze the curls to get rid of crunch, I never scrunch upwards and would never pixiecurl diffuse as I'd get too much volume and frizz.
I think doing all that helps keep my curls as loose as they can be.

ps. I can also relate to your other thread about your hair misbehaving - mine's gone haywire the last few weeks and I now am just having constant ponytails as I'm defeated and don't know what to try next!
Originally Posted by Starmie
Plan to rake on my next wash; plan to avoid scrunching in general.

Curly hair; tis a puzzlement
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
My hair has curled up a lot since I started CG as well. I would say it was wavy with a couple of spirals underneath when I started. Now, 8 months later, it is most definitely 3A in the canopy and all 3B underneath. And they're big, fat shirley-temple ringlets under there. I like the curls, but I'd also like my hair to get longer. I know it's growing but the length doesn't increase at all, because it just keeps curling up!

One thing that's been working for me lately to loosen/lengthen my curls is using the Curl Junkie Curl Assurance Leave-In Conditioner under KCCC. And I brush the conditioner in with my denman brush. I get some great curl definition, and some pretty good clumps, but the pattern is looser than if I scrunched or raked my products in. Maybe it will work for you too!
Mostly 3A, some 3B/2C fine-med texture/med porosity/low density

wash: alternate co-washing with V05 & soap bars
Rinse out: Rotate TJ's N&S, AOHR, LVPNG, GVP K-Pak, CJ CA Daily Condish
ACV rinses 2x/wk (high pH water)
LI: if I use one, it's usually CJ CALI CJ H&B LI, or GDLI
Styling: FSG with AVG, AN, hemp seed oil & slippery elm (winter only), KCCC, CJ CCCC, CJ SG, CJ AFG, AOMM & BRHG

Currently experimenting w/DM Miracurls CG & MM
My hair has curled up a lot since I started CG as well. I would say it was wavy with a couple of spirals underneath when I started. Now, 8 months later, it is most definitely 3A in the canopy and all 3B underneath. And they're big, fat shirley-temple ringlets under there. I like the curls, but I'd also like my hair to get longer. I know it's growing but the length doesn't increase at all, because it just keeps curling up!

One thing that's been working for me lately to loosen/lengthen my curls is using the Curl Junkie Curl Assurance Leave-In Conditioner under KCCC. And I brush the conditioner in with my denman brush. I get some great curl definition, and some pretty good clumps, but the pattern is looser than if I scrunched or raked my products in. Maybe it will work for you too!
Originally Posted by curlykristen
Excellent thanks! My CJ is in the mail.
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
Of course, you know...if you end up having looser curls, we will have to joke with you about you not being a curly and instead being a straightie.
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

I am a sulfate washing, cone slabbing, curly lovin' s.o.b. The CG police haven't caught me yet.


3a/3b
I see a lot of 4's talking about LongAid gel to elongate and soften their curls . . . I've seen it at Walgreen's, but never noticed the ingredients since the type of perfectly-formed curls you have now would be my HG, LOL.
2C/3A/3B - modified CG - med./fine, normal/low porosity/normal elasticity

Current Main Rotation: MG217 medicated or Aim2Health 'poos for scalp, YTCarrots or Elucence cond., Spiral Solutions Protein & Deeply Decadent Cond., CJCCCC reg or lite, KCCC, Giovanni LA Hold Hair Spritz + lots more, sporadically

HG Method: Super Soaker + Smasters-ing, brief upside down diffusing w/360o diffuser then clips/clamps & air dry. Newly gray - stopped my henna glosses!

www.fotki.com/auntnett
Of course, you know...if you end up having looser curls, we will have to joke with you about you not being a curly and instead being a straightie.
Originally Posted by Boomygrrl
You can call me screwie, as long as my hair looks good!
I see a lot of 4's talking about LongAid gel to elongate and soften their curls . . . I've seen it at Walgreen's, but never noticed the ingredients since the type of perfectly-formed curls you have now would be my HG, LOL.
Originally Posted by auntnett
Will check that item (and the 4s) out. And you are welcome to some of my curls!
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
Rudee, your CJ products will help with this issue! And I agree with you too, I've noticed this same thing over the last few months.
April
3a/b, med texture, med porosity, low dews



Rudee, your CJ products will help with this issue! And I agree with you too, I've noticed this same thing over the last few months.
Originally Posted by AprilnUtah
Excellent - thanks for the hope!
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album
I have a few ideas.

1. In the Curly Girl book I noticed she said something about drying hair with clips on the bottom to fight shrinkage and presumably anything that elongates curls and reduces shrinkage would also reduce volume, particularly for type 2 and 3 curlies.

2. And there is also something known as banding many of us 4s use. Our hair likes to shrink so much many of us wash our hair in bands becuase letting hair dry fully cuases a nightmare of tangling for some. It actually increases volume for me with a bigger fro (which I love) but that's becuase my hair grows out. So looser stretched curls for me and less shrinkage= bigger hair.

But with a looser 3 curly or someone whose hair has natural downward hang I imagine you could still try banding becuase it would do the opposite for you- reduce volume/loosen curls becuase your hair naturally grows downwards.

[Banding is a method of stretching usually done to natural hair in order to airdry but have a stretched end result.
While the hair is still wet or damp, it is usually detangled and then ribbons, bands, scrunchies or scarves are tied around the hair (starting at the roots and down the length). Then then give the hair time to dry and remove the bands once it is dry.]
There are pic examples in this thread
http://www.longhaircareforum.com/for...4587&highlight=


One of a looser curly:



Basically Rudee I imagine how a looser curly who wants to reduce volume would band is to-- wash and condition your hair and use the definition technique you usually use. Next you would pull hair back into a ponytail. Then carefully place fabric covered bands while trying not to disturb your curl pattern (no rubber bands that could cuase breakage) all along the length of the hair all the way to the bottom. If you use pretty bands you can wear this as a style the first day. Which would probably be the best course anyway becuase banding only works to combat shrinkage if you wait until hair is completely dry or at least mostly dry to take out the bands and some people's hair may take hours to dry. There are no guarantees but if I were you I would try it, most people report not only does shrinkage and volume decrease but curls may loosen (sometimes almost straight) so you may even get the waves you want.

Another example. Our very own Empressri's (I would say her hair is 3ish) banded ponytail before and after on her fotki, hope she doesn't mind me posting her pics here:
Banded:
http://public.fotki.com/EmpressRi/ha.../cimg6119.html

Band out:
http://public.fotki.com/EmpressRi/20.../cimg6131.html

3. Banding is really just a form of protective styling and you could get similiar results with braids and twists and the resultant braid and twist out. While hair is still wet and conditioned, apply a holding produt and try one big french braid or something and this should set the hair for the look you want and possibly reduce volume. Also braid outs produce a wavy look.

Here is a thread on protective styling on looser curls:
Twist out on 3b long hair with layers - Updated!


My Fotki

Last edited by KinkyKeeper; 05-14-2009 at 02:39 AM.
OMG Kinky - thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response! Am forwarding this to a few gals who will love banding!
Curls,Coils,Waves & WhatKnot
3miii/My HGs tame bulk&frizz/Give definition w/o crunch
My Photobucket Album

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