Centrimonium chloride/behentrimonium methosulfate....

BM is a conditioning agent made from rapeseed, and CC is an ammonium salt that is an antistatic agent, prevents buildup, destroys ordors etc. Since CC is a salt, maybe this has something to do with why your hair doesn't like it.

Any how, all the Jessicurl condishes only have BM plus other goodies in them. I love JCWDT as an all purpose condish because its also glycerin and protein free.

BTW, I put up a thread called "Oils-the good the bad and the ugly" and address the issue of coconut oils and products, especially the AO line. I have a theory that if you have coarse hair coconut derived surfactants and product bases will not agree with the hair the more you use it over time.
Originally Posted by belasuna

Hmm, that's interesting about CC being a salt, because whenever I use a product with that ingredient my hair literally feels like I sprayed salt water on it and let it dry that way. Just rough and dry, blech!
Originally Posted by Magoo
Bela where did you get this info? Is there some kind of link to confirm that Cetrimonium Chloride is a salt???

Both the curl chemist http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...-care-products and the LCLF Book list it as a cationic surfactant with no mention of Salt. It is said to be a more irritating surfactant then the anionic type so they can leave a residue on the hair and can ruff up the cuticle. http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/2009/04...e-killers.html
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

Last edited by DEL2C; 09-20-2009 at 04:41 PM.
hey del, I found this bit here about CC:

"
Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetrimonium Bromide and Steartrimonium Chloride are quaternary ammonium salts. In cosmetics and personal care products, these ingredients are used in the formulation of hair conditioners, hair dyes and colors, other hair care products, and in some skin care products."

the page was here. Not a chemistry expert, but just because its called a "salt" doesn't mean it has the exact same properties as sodium chloride. It can be less drying, or not drying at all (Not sure because I'm not a chemist lol).
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

hey del, I found this bit here about CC:

"
Cetrimonium Chloride, Cetrimonium Bromide and Steartrimonium Chloride are quaternary ammonium salts. In cosmetics and personal care products, these ingredients are used in the formulation of hair conditioners, hair dyes and colors, other hair care products, and in some skin care products."

the page was here. Not a chemistry expert, but just because its called a "salt" doesn't mean it has the exact same properties as sodium chloride. It can be less drying, or not drying at all (Not sure because I'm not a chemist lol).
Originally Posted by goobernut
Cool goober! Thanks for the linky

I think you're right it wouldn't have the same properties as sodium chloride when combined with other conditioning ingredients. If people have trouble with certain formulations containing these ingredients, it could be the ruffing up the cuticle that they are feeling and not liking. I have lots of condish with both Cetrimonium Bromide and Steartrimonium Chloride and get different reactions from them depending on what other ingredients are included in the formulation. Just because a condish has these ingredients doesn't mean they have the same exact amt in them so that's why we continue to experiment......these are such common ingredients in conditioners.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
BM is a conditioning agent made from rapeseed, and CC is an ammonium salt that is an antistatic agent, prevents buildup, destroys ordors etc. Since CC is a salt, maybe this has something to do with why your hair doesn't like it.
Originally Posted by belasuna
I found the information on this blog really helpful:


Cetrimonium Chloride
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2009/07/cationic-quaternary-compounds_29.html

Behentrimonium Methosulfate
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2009/07/cationic-quaternary-compounds-incroquat.html

It seems like CC would be a great ingredient in cowash conditioners (detangling, antiseptic) whereas BMS (a quaternary ammonium salt as well!) may be a better choice in rinse out conditioners
oh cool!!! another geeky blog! goober you gotta see this I love it! She's got a great post about conditioners and how they work. The process of aDsorption is explained, conditioner sits on top of the hair until another process washes it away.

(Adsorption means the molecules accumulate on the surface of your hair. It's different from absorption in that it doesn't penetrate, it just sits on top of the hair fibre.)


This is how oils work too they don't actually aBsorb into the hair they mostly sit on top of the cuticle. I remember shawnette posting this somewhere before??? goober didn't you post something like this too??
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
I think I mentioned the aDsorbtion thing in the "oils" thread. I can't remember where I saw shawnette post.

Its too funny, I found that blog post and thought I had edited my post to include it. Apparently I didn't, but someone else found it anyway.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

I think I mentioned the aDsorbtion thing in the "oils" thread. I can't remember where I saw shawnette post.

Its too funny, I found that blog post and thought I had edited my post to include it. Apparently I didn't, but someone else found it anyway.
Originally Posted by goobernut
Yes goober, I hadn't had a chance to look, but sure enough it was on the Oil vs. Butter thread that Shawnette posted the aDsorption explanation. There were some great posts on that thread

Oils vs. Butters-Which do you prefer?
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

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