Protein/Moisture Issues

So my hair is very dry. It feels gross and wiry, which I think is part the coarseness and part lack of moisture. It feels like straw. It doesn't want to form waves or curls anymore. Due to these symptoms, and the low porosity of my hair, I've been avoiding proteins for a couple months, other than maybe some from plant extracts and the jojoba oil/wheat germ oil (?) in AOHR/AOWC. But lately my hair seems to be drier than ever before. It feels disgusting. Even when it's soaking wet it's hard, and when I squeeze some of the water out of it in the shower before applying conditioner, I have to use a HUGE palmful of conditioner/honey on one tiny section to make it not feel disgustingly rough and hard.

WHAT DO I DO? I want to give up CG so badly...

I've been rotating between AOHR, AOWC, Burt's Bees Super Shiny Grapefruit and Sugar Beet, Burt's Bees Shea and Grapefruit DT, Garnier Triple Nutrition conditioner and DT, and Loreal Everpure Smoothing/Moisturizing conditioner. The Garnier and Loreal I just started using in the last week and my hair was feeling gross before then, so I don't think it's the mineral oil in Loreal or the parabens. For styling products, I've been using HETT, Alberto/V05 Create, and recently a Garnier gel...I think it's technically a spiking one.

I think most of those contain glycerin, and I add honey most of the time, since what I've read about both coarse and low porosity hair states that it will benefit from humectants. Could either be causing a problem?

Why is my hair getting more and more dry?

Also, based on what I've said about my hair, what do you guys think about whether or not I would like KBB products or Qhemet Biologics ones? I was thinking the QB could be good since a lot of them don't contain silicone, protein, mineral oil, or parabens...
Type 2b/2c, med/coarse, low porosity, medium density

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Tangerine, Live Clean Moisturizing, CJ Daily Fix, GTTT, Tigi MM

Conditioner: Tigi MM, Jessicurl WDT, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Daily Smoothing, CJ H&B Deep Fix

Deep Treatment: same as rinse out

Leave-in: KCKT or my rinseout

Styling Aids: Alberto/V05 Gel, HETT/HESMU, KCCC

Last edited by Tomorrow Never Knows; 09-19-2009 at 11:41 PM.
Im no expert but it sounds like your hair has way to much protein. I would try a very moisturizing conditioner if you don't use shampoo. If you do, i know oyin honey wash is very, very moisturizing, it made my hair overconditioned. I tried their honey hemp conditioner today and it was very moisturizing too, just not too much as thier shampoo. So i would do a deep treatment "with heat" with a very moisturizing conditioner. HTH
Type: 3b-healthy hair*medium texture* normal porosity?
Shampoo: SC Optimum, Luster's Pink,Curliscious Cleansing Cream
Conditioner: Coconut Sublime, Giovanni 50:50, CJ CASD
Leave-In: CJ Beauticurls
DT: Silicon Mix
Styling: Eco Styler, KCCC/KCKT, BRHG, AOMM

Holy Grail: Flour Sacking*modified method* AOMM, ECO Styler-Krystal
Expiermenting with: Whatever i can get my hands on
Hair Hates: Vegetable glycerin/waxes
*Always going to be a Pj until i find all my HG's
My hair sometimes feels "hard." I used to attribute it the quality of some of the ingredients in some of the products--but not sure. Our hair is close in porosity, but different in texture. I felt that I had difficulty finding conditioners that were moisturizing enough when I first started, too. The AO conditioners are good for me in the winter, but I can only use them twice a week--not at all in the summer. I, personally, didn't find the Oyin Honey Hemp moisturizing enough. Some of the rinse outs that have worked well for me are: Terax Crema (it's a little alkaline, so opens the cuticle to let moisture in), CJ Moisture Theory, Komaza Califia Conditioner, Curly Q Coconut and the KBB milk. Other products that might also help you with moisture used as your leave in are: AfroDetangler, Komaza Califia Moisture Spray and/or Cream, Donna Marie Buttermilk and any of the CJ conditioners in a jar.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
This is how my hair was last Winter off and on. I don't know if you're truly "coarse" or if your so dry that it's giving that appearance. But I would proceed with the recommendations for Coarse hair and favor emollient rich products.

My 2cents. AO conditioners are funny, they are supposed to be super moisturizing but they are oil heavy. Oils are sealants. If your hair is dry to begin with you're not doing yourself any favors by using products that are Oil heavy. The oils will continue to build up and won't let any moisture in. Burts Bees Grapefruit conditioner I didn't find to be very moisturizing either. I thought because of my love for Honey it would be great but it didn't do anything for me and it's oil heavy it seems to be mostly EO's but, regardless it dried me out.

The Mineral Oil is escalating your problem as well, because it's suffocating your hair! Toss that stuff if you don't want to use Shampoo once in a while and given the state of your hair Shampoo is going to dry you out more right now.

CJ Rehab is hands down the best moisturizing conditioner I've ever used. That might be just what you need right now and then maybe once you get your hair healthy you can rotate the AO condish with it once in a while. You can use Rehab as a Rinse out, DT or LI. Also I don't know what your weather is like but Honey & Glycerin (in stylers) with Dew Points lower then 50 don't work the same and they tend to dry me out. Vegetable glycerin doesn't do that to me though.

ETA: Do you have a Sally's near you? The Aura Cherry Almond Bark condish is getting good reviews but I haven't tried it myself.

Good Reading on making coarse hair softer: Help. Anyone with Big, Thick Hair?
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

Last edited by DEL2C; 09-20-2009 at 07:33 AM.
mamacita1603 - thanks, yeah, I definitely have wayyy too much protein which is why I've been completely avoiding it for months! I don't even use anything with amino acids.

kathymack - thanks for the product recommendations. I get the feeling it's time to start experimenting a lot. I just wish it were cheaper doing it in Canada! When I order something the shipping costs tend to be similar to the cost of the actual product...or more expensive if it's a cheaper one. I'll definitely check out some of the ones you suggested though.

DEL2C - I think I could be more medium/coarse...but I definitely have hair strands that are very thick. That's interesting what you said about the AO conditioners and about oils, and it definitely makes sense. I've been confused about that before, since I know putting oil on AFTER a moisturizer can be good for people with high porosity hair to seal it in, but that you shouldn't put it on before...so I wasn't sure how it would work if the oil is in the conditioner. What sort of ingredients should I be looking for instead? I actually did a sulfate wash last night and my hair looks WAY more moisturized today because it opened up my hair cuticle enough that my conditioner could penetrate, and of course it removed the mineral oil/parabens...although I definitely had a problem before the mineral oil, since I've only used it a couple times. Is AVG a good thing to start using? I think I'll bite the bullet and spend $40 on the CJ Curl Rehab for now... I do have a Sally's about 40 minutes away so I'll trek out there sometime, hopefully this week, when I get a chance! Is there anything else I should get there?
Type 2b/2c, med/coarse, low porosity, medium density

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Tangerine, Live Clean Moisturizing, CJ Daily Fix, GTTT, Tigi MM

Conditioner: Tigi MM, Jessicurl WDT, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Daily Smoothing, CJ H&B Deep Fix

Deep Treatment: same as rinse out

Leave-in: KCKT or my rinseout

Styling Aids: Alberto/V05 Gel, HETT/HESMU, KCCC
Another thing about the AO condishes I read on another thread a few days ago. A curly actually contacted AO and the AO rep actually said their wheat germ oil is 28% protein. (You can search for this thread.) In addition to the problems with high oil content in AO condishes, this may be something for you to consider as you try to avoid protein.

When my hair has protein overload, I do a few deep treatments with Jessiculr WDT. It usually corrects the problem right away. I leave it on for about 2 hours before rinsing.

Del, thanks for mentioning CJ Curl Rehab. I'm going to also check it out.
~belasuna
3a/b, very dry, fine/med-coarse, high porosity
CG since 7/27/09
Bella Curl Products
CW: protein free-cleansing creme
CO: protein free MRcondish
Styler: FSG + protein free LI Elixir, Gellie, Shine & Seal Serum
Lady of Elixir, Keeper of the Secret Blend, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
I did read that about the AO condishes! I still don't get how it can contain that much protein. *scratches head* Oh well, I'm figuring this out just as I finish off my last bottle of AOWC and AOHR after ordering four of AOWC and five of AOHR, so it's not as bad haha.
Type 2b/2c, med/coarse, low porosity, medium density

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Tangerine, Live Clean Moisturizing, CJ Daily Fix, GTTT, Tigi MM

Conditioner: Tigi MM, Jessicurl WDT, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Daily Smoothing, CJ H&B Deep Fix

Deep Treatment: same as rinse out

Leave-in: KCKT or my rinseout

Styling Aids: Alberto/V05 Gel, HETT/HESMU, KCCC
How is the humidity where you live? From what I've read about humectants (which include glycerin and honey), they are great in moderate dewpoints because they pull moisture from the air into your hair, but in low humidity/dewpoints, they can actually pull moisture OUT of your hair.

Tiffany/StruttsWife's e-book recommends emollients (such as the fatty alcohols) for coarse hair.

Do you think you could have buildup? You might try a baking soda wash, followed by an ACV rinse.
Wavy, fine texture, med/high porosity (?), med density
2cFii on the Fia System

Current products
:
Low-poo: JC GLS or JC HCC
Co-wash: Suave Naturals Coconut (also do water-wash)
Rinse-out: AO GPB, Mop C Hydrating Conditioner
Leave-in: KCKT
Stylers: BB FSG, BRHG, JC Oil Blend, BB Hemp, Grapeseed, & Clary Sage Hair and Body Butter
Deep treatments: Nexxus Emergencee PT, Jessicurl WDT
Occasional ACV rinses

mod-CG since June, 2009


Let's see...the dew point is 9.4 in celsius, so almost 49 in fahrenheit. But the dews ARE dropping so I need to try to avoid glycerin now, which looks like it might be challenging. I'm going to order the Jessicurl WDT and CJ Curl Rehab off Honey Fig and see how that goes.

What are some other products that have lots of fatty alcohols? Most ones I use have only one or MAYBE two of cetyl alcohol, stearyl alcohol, or cetearyl alcohol.

I shampooed twice...I know it's horrible but my hair felt SO much better afterwards because the conditioner actually penetrated. Which is gentler though, using shampoo to open up the cuticle and remove build up or using baking soda?
Type 2b/2c, med/coarse, low porosity, medium density

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Tangerine, Live Clean Moisturizing, CJ Daily Fix, GTTT, Tigi MM

Conditioner: Tigi MM, Jessicurl WDT, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Daily Smoothing, CJ H&B Deep Fix

Deep Treatment: same as rinse out

Leave-in: KCKT or my rinseout

Styling Aids: Alberto/V05 Gel, HETT/HESMU, KCCC
I ordered the CJ Curl Rehab and Jessicurl WDT. Holy jesus I feel gluttonous haha, I can't believe I spent that much on conditioners, but it will make it seem more worth it next time I'm working until 12:30am with an 8:30am class the next morning.
Type 2b/2c, med/coarse, low porosity, medium density

Co-wash: Suave Naturals Tangerine, Live Clean Moisturizing, CJ Daily Fix, GTTT, Tigi MM

Conditioner: Tigi MM, Jessicurl WDT, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Daily Smoothing, CJ H&B Deep Fix

Deep Treatment: same as rinse out

Leave-in: KCKT or my rinseout

Styling Aids: Alberto/V05 Gel, HETT/HESMU, KCCC

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