Curl Chemist Article:Temps matter too along with Dew Points!!!!

our lovely jilipoo asked the curl chemist about this:


We have learned a lot recently about dew point and how it can contribute to the behavior of our hair. Does air temperature play any role? For instance, the dew point could be 40 on a very cold day, and it could also be 40 on a very hot day. Most people have noted that they would not use the same combination of products for those two scenarios, despite the dew point being the same. What accounts for that?

yes, the temperature is very important. The dew point may give you one piece of information, but the temperature is also extremely relevant.
Let the discussion begin!!!!!!!!!!

This is something I've been learning myself with the transition to Fall. It was a struggle, I couldn't figure out why my Winter type routine wouldn't work despite the lower Dews. When I started paying attention to air temps as well, it made more sense.

What I've learned is that I need more LI & can't use Cream stylers unless the air is cool. On warmer days I would reach for CK otherwise I would get POOF. There were days when the dews were in the low 30's but temps were in the 50's and I would get completely different results then when air temps were cool and dews were in the same range

Now that temps have stabilized into a more Winter pattern, I don't need to think about it as much. But some of you are still getting fluctuations so you may want to consider air temps as well when choosing your routines.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.

Last edited by DEL2C; 12-09-2009 at 08:41 PM.
Thanks for posting this DEL! I've been trying to discuss this off and on for a while now, but no-one seems to take up the gauntlet! I was starting to feel a little crazy, but you know, if Jilli and DEL are talking about it, I can't be crazy. Or well I can be crazy, but I'm just not wrong about this subject lol.

I think the reason its not addressed so much, is because it really is an usual circumstance. We've been told to focus on the dews for so long, its all we look at. For a few of us though -- it first came to my attention when a few Brits were posting that their dew was low, but there temp was about the same as the dew. They were having horrible humidity problems. And they couldn't make it give with the whole "moderate dew point = good hair" window. It started all the gears working in my head. Fast forward a few months later, and now my dews are the same as my temps, and I'm having a harder time with managing my hair as ever! Even though the dews are nearly the same they were in the summer -- they are still high 60's and low 70's.

To be honest, since I seemed to be in the minority, I figured I couldn't be right, I mean, all these wonderful educated curlies, and this issue hadn't been brought to the forefront before? My hair issues couldn't be humidity!

The whole, ignore the humidity and look at the dew thing bothered me from the beginning. Yes, 100% humidity at 30 degrees doesn't hold as much water in the air as 100% humidity at 70 deg, but when the atmosphere makes it more available, you still shouldn't ignore 90 and above humidity no matter what the temp. In essence, looking at the humidity is just cheater way of comparing dew point vs. temp. Or I guess maybe I should look up exactly what humidity is again to verify what it is
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

When the LCLF forum broke out we started to breach this subject a little bit. We didn't get very far with it though! Then I started experimenting in the Fall with stuff I wouldn't normally use in "low" dews and lo and behold it worked. It's just ONE more thing to drive us crazy but it can be very helpful too. I just stumbled on this article a couple weeks ago though so it was nice to see "in print" that yes temps do matter!!

As far as humidity goes, well....usually that's only a concern for me in the Summer and I've got a routine down pat using Honey, so I don't usually pay too much attention to dews at that point. When I was having the most trouble was in our supposed "ideal" range of 45-60. I seem to do better in extreme temps of either Cold or Hot, it's the middle that drives me nuts!
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
Summer didn't bother me near as much as this monsoon season has. its been nearly 100% humidity for nearly 2 weeks now.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

A big topic, Miss Del!

At the Live Curly, Live Free forum, this came up and the closest we got to a definitive answer was that cold air weighs more than hot air. Possibly, this weighs down our hair a bit?

Humidity didn't really play a role but many of noted that temperature did.

This is all I know. I wonder where we can turn for a good, solid answer....
3a and strictly CG since August 2007. Porous and on the fine side. No to magnesium sulfate and glycerin. Yes to protein! Favorites:
CO-WASHES: Suave Coconut
CONDITIONERS and LEAVE-INS: Mop Top Daily Conditioner, KBB Nectar, Aubrey GPB or Island Naturals, Robert Craig, Any Jessicurl
CURL ENHANCERS/CREMES/MOUSSES: KCCC, JoiWhip
GELS: Fuzzy Duck, B5 Design, MGA Scultping, BRHG


Fotki password: chuckle
Blog: http://jillipoo.blogspot.com/
Twitter: nopoojillipoo
Summer didn't bother me near as much as this monsoon season has. its been nearly 100% humidity for nearly 2 weeks now.
Originally Posted by goobernut

Yup rain is tricky, I do have to vary what I do if it's cold our warm outside.

If it's cold I'd say 45 degrees or below I go with a LI (light) a light curl cream and gel.

If it's warm 60 degrees or above I'll go with No LI and use CK/BRHG or Miragelly/BRHG

Your temps must be warm right??
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
Summer didn't bother me near as much as this monsoon season has. its been nearly 100% humidity for nearly 2 weeks now.
Originally Posted by goobernut
I was just thinking about this same thing myself. It snowed here the other day, and the humidity was around 90%, the temp was 38, but the dew was in the teens!

It's all experimentation to me at this point since I've only been CG for a few months.
3A!
Low Poo: GTTT, TJ's Refresh

Rinse Out: LVP, TJ's Nourish, GFTN, 365, SSCC
Styling: HEBE,
Biotera Curl Cream/Gel, Marie Dean, EW SAJ, Pink Boots, Re:Coil, KCCC, CK
Del, Thanks for this post. On Monday it rained where I live which means 100% humidity but the temp was in the 40's. I used my LI but put a little less because of the rain and my hair felt so dry. I guess I was thinking since it was raining, there should have been moisture in the air, right? But at that temp, there was less moisture in the air than if it were 65F and raining, which explains why my hair felt so dry. I actually needed more moisture (LI) that day.

I live in coastal Los Angeles, which makes figuring out the dewpoint, humidity, temp hair thing a little difficult. In the mornings we also have the fog layer to deal with. Plus, despite what many may think of Sunny CA, the weather pattern in LA is actually not as consistent as say in AZ or NM or other areas of the US.
~belasuna
3a/b, very dry, fine/med-coarse, high porosity
CG since 7/27/09
Bella Curl Products
CW: protein free-cleansing creme
CO: protein free MRcondish
Styler: FSG + protein free LI Elixir, Gellie, Shine & Seal Serum
Lady of Elixir, Keeper of the Secret Blend, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
I was just thinking about this same thing myself. It snowed here the other day, and the humidity was around 90%, the temp was 38, but the dew was in the teens!

It's all experimentation to me at this point since I've only been CG for a few months.
I don't start noticing that I need to really pack on the moisture until Dews & Temps are in the 20's or so. 38 degrees I can still go with a pretty normal routine so to speak of a light LI, cream or enhancer & Gel. But obviously, the curlier you are the more moisture you need, I'm a wavy so I don't crave the same kind of moisture

I like what the curl chemist said from the article linked in the original post:

The dew point may give you one piece of information, but the temperature is also extremely relevant. When it comes to hair, especially curly hair, internal moisture, atmospheric moisture and environmental temperature are all very important and interrelated

It still comes down to experimenting with different moisture levels for each of us. The science of hair is really mind boggling!
I too have been dealing with hair frustration due to temperature and the dew point. I currently live near Dubai, so it's hot and humid I'm dealing with. Even though it's "winter" here and the numbers say it's not that hot or humid (temp 60s-70s, dew point 50s), I still feel like I'm battling both!
2c-3a. Thick density. Texture = mixture of medium and fine.

Always trying to boost my curl!


Go-to products: Pink Boots, CJSG, LALSG, Abba Pure Finish gel
Experimenting with: CJAF, CJ CCCC, JCRR/CC, BRHG, PB Goo, Re:Coil, Komaza CHP, EcoStyler Protein
Didn't like: HESMU, Matrix Biolage Gelee (both too goopy)

http://public.fotki.com/thicknwavy/
Last updated: Dec. 3, 2009
There's also something I never got. They say in the summer when it's humid that we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible to prevent the outside humidity from penetrating the hair and puffing up the cuticle. They also say that in winter we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible since the air is so dry.
So, are we talking a different kind of moisture for summer and a different kind for winter? It's like ok, I get it, we need to be super-moisturized year-round, but yet people have very different winter vs. summer routines!
2c-3a. Thick density. Texture = mixture of medium and fine.

Always trying to boost my curl!


Go-to products: Pink Boots, CJSG, LALSG, Abba Pure Finish gel
Experimenting with: CJAF, CJ CCCC, JCRR/CC, BRHG, PB Goo, Re:Coil, Komaza CHP, EcoStyler Protein
Didn't like: HESMU, Matrix Biolage Gelee (both too goopy)

http://public.fotki.com/thicknwavy/
Last updated: Dec. 3, 2009
I give up .

And reading through the above posts made my head spin. I don't think I'll ever understand dews, temps, humidity, when to use more moisturizing products and when to use less.

I do think I will just stick to my routine and throw my hair into a ponytail on days it doesn't work.

I will also continue to read information on this topic in the hopes someday it will finally click .
3b. Normal porosity. Medium texture. Low elasticity.

CONDITIONERS: GVP The Detangler, Tresemme Naturals Nourishing, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Hibiscus & Banana Honey Butta, Suave Pomegranate Splash, KC Knot Today

LEAVE-IN: Shea Moisture Shea Butter (LOVE!)

STYLERS: CJ Curl Queen (LOVE!), Biotera Gel, LA Looks Sports Gel, AOMM
There's also something I never got. They say in the summer when it's humid that we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible to prevent the outside humidity from penetrating the hair and puffing up the cuticle. They also say that in winter we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible since the air is so dry.
So, are we talking a different kind of moisture for summer and a different kind for winter? It's like ok, I get it, we need to be super-moisturized year-round, but yet people have very different winter vs. summer routines!
Originally Posted by thick_n_wavy
Moisture comes in different forms for sure. I don't think it means that in the Summer you would opt for a rich thick creamy LI or curl cream like you may for Winter. You can still keep your hair well moisturized with co-washing, some Gels, lightweight LI's that provide sealing and moisture ability or a pomade.

*Angela* don't give up read the curl chemist article I linked it really explains it well.
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
There's also something I never got. They say in the summer when it's humid that we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible to prevent the outside humidity from penetrating the hair and puffing up the cuticle. They also say that in winter we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible since the air is so dry.
So, are we talking a different kind of moisture for summer and a different kind for winter? It's like ok, I get it, we need to be super-moisturized year-round, but yet people have very different winter vs. summer routines!
Originally Posted by thick_n_wavy
While I am no expert on dews and humidity, I do think they are talking about different kinds of moisture for summer and winter. In the summer you can get moisture from humectants which pull moisture out of the air and into your hair. This requires balance though because you don't want to over moisturize so your cuticle layer puffs up. This is why many people use humectants plus sealing gels or oils in higher dewpoints. During the winter you want pure moisture from non-humectants like water or aloe and emolients which help to trap this moisture in during the drier climates.
~belasuna
3a/b, very dry, fine/med-coarse, high porosity
CG since 7/27/09
Bella Curl Products
CW: protein free-cleansing creme
CO: protein free MRcondish
Styler: FSG + protein free LI Elixir, Gellie, Shine & Seal Serum
Lady of Elixir, Keeper of the Secret Blend, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
I give up .

And reading through the above posts made my head spin. I don't think I'll ever understand dews, temps, humidity, when to use more moisturizing products and when to use less.

I do think I will just stick to my routine and throw my hair into a ponytail on days it doesn't work.

I will also continue to read information on this topic in the hopes someday it will finally click .
Originally Posted by *Angela*
Don't give up !! Just keep trying different product combinations and you'll find something that works for you. I am nowhere near as educated on the chemistry of hair, but I have found many product combinations that work really well for me. What I started doing was keeping a spread sheet saying what products I used, the temperature and dewpoint that day, what the weather was doing, and finally what my results were. I found that this started to show me what products worked when.

I also found that when the weather was going to be iffy for me, I used Curls Gel-les'c after I applied the rest of my stylers and before diffusing. It has allowed me to use almost any product combination regardless of the weather. I'm really hoping that the CJ CIAB will work the same way. I haven't started playing with that one yet ... it's on my 'to get' list.
Type: 3a fine & dense,with normal porosity, terrible product junkie
ROUTINE: LI, enhancer, gel, plop with Curlease towel, serum product (either CIAB or Gel-les'c), clip & diffuse.
Too many favourite products to list ... I finally have my routine that works and alot of products to choose from. My product stash is huge, but well loved !!!
There's also something I never got. They say in the summer when it's humid that we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible to prevent the outside humidity from penetrating the hair and puffing up the cuticle. They also say that in winter we should keep our hair as moisturized as possible since the air is so dry.
So, are we talking a different kind of moisture for summer and a different kind for winter? It's like ok, I get it, we need to be super-moisturized year-round, but yet people have very different winter vs. summer routines!
Originally Posted by thick_n_wavy
Moisture comes in different forms for sure. I don't think it means that in the Summer you would opt for a rich thick creamy LI or curl cream like you may for Winter. You can still keep your hair well moisturized with co-washing, some Gels, lightweight LI's that provide sealing and moisture ability or a pomade.

*Angela* don't give up read the curl chemist article I linked it really explains it well.
Originally Posted by DEL2C
Thanks Del. The article did help...still confused but less so.

I am only half-joking about giving up. Thankfully I am pretty happy with my hair and current routine. My hair is pretty forgiving which makes it a lot less frustrating when it comes to trying to understand how the weather affects my hair on top of everything else.
3b. Normal porosity. Medium texture. Low elasticity.

CONDITIONERS: GVP The Detangler, Tresemme Naturals Nourishing, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Hibiscus & Banana Honey Butta, Suave Pomegranate Splash, KC Knot Today

LEAVE-IN: Shea Moisture Shea Butter (LOVE!)

STYLERS: CJ Curl Queen (LOVE!), Biotera Gel, LA Looks Sports Gel, AOMM
Yes DEL Temps are still warm here. Its been cooling down at night, but during the day its getting up to 80. Its like a sauna out there.

I realize what you guys are saying that the air holds less water at 50 deg vs 80 deg. However -- ppl with straightened (or relaxed hair) will still tell you that if the temp is 50, and your dew point is 49 (which means the humidity is probably around 90-100% depending on atmospheric variables) you are still going to frizz. If its almost raining, and the air is super saturated -- even though its less water (in comparison to if the temp was 80) its still going to cause frizz. I don't think my hair cares if there is less water in 50 degree just about to rain vs the 80 degree just about to rain. It still has a very similar effect.

Now that being said, some people's hair LOVE the humidity, some people don't. My hair is hating on it right now.

The quote that DEL put above from the article is fantastic.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

I give up .

And reading through the above posts made my head spin. I don't think I'll ever understand dews, temps, humidity, when to use more moisturizing products and when to use less.

I do think I will just stick to my routine and throw my hair into a ponytail on days it doesn't work.

I will also continue to read information on this topic in the hopes someday it will finally click .
Originally Posted by *Angela*
Don't give up !! Just keep trying different product combinations and you'll find something that works for you. I am nowhere near as educated on the chemistry of hair, but I have found many product combinations that work really well for me. What I started doing was keeping a spread sheet saying what products I used, the temperature and dewpoint that day, what the weather was doing, and finally what my results were. I found that this started to show me what products worked when.

I also found that when the weather was going to be iffy for me, I used Curls Gel-les'c after I applied the rest of my stylers and before diffusing. It has allowed me to use almost any product combination regardless of the weather. I'm really hoping that the CJ CIAB will work the same way. I haven't started playing with that one yet ... it's on my 'to get' list.
Originally Posted by FrizzBgone
Thanks FrizzBGone. I saw your post after I posted my last response. Great idea about keeping a spreadsheet with products and weather information.

I'm not giving up on my hair, as I am actually happy with my current routine, just on thinking I'll ever understand how the weather affects it.
3b. Normal porosity. Medium texture. Low elasticity.

CONDITIONERS: GVP The Detangler, Tresemme Naturals Nourishing, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Hibiscus & Banana Honey Butta, Suave Pomegranate Splash, KC Knot Today

LEAVE-IN: Shea Moisture Shea Butter (LOVE!)

STYLERS: CJ Curl Queen (LOVE!), Biotera Gel, LA Looks Sports Gel, AOMM
I have to say the spreadsheet idea seemed awfully neurotic to me. But, this Fall I succumed because I couldn't figure out what the heck was going on. I actually just use a little notebook. When I saw a pattern with temps & dew points it solidifed what we had talked about on LCLF forum.

goober-I read one of your posts that you ordered CK. How in the world you have gone this long without trying it is beyond me! I was going to suggest that to you but I thought you already tried it!! CK is my saviour in Summer along with Honey of course I guess maybe foregoing the LI in Summer and going lighter on my Condish might be compensated with the amt. of humectants I'm using between Honey & CK but it works for me!
While I am no expert on dews and humidity, I do think they are talking about different kinds of moisture for summer and winter. In the summer you can get moisture from humectants which pull moisture out of the air and into your hair. This requires balance though because you don't want to over moisturize so your cuticle layer puffs up. This is why many people use humectants plus sealing gels or oils in higher dewpoints. During the winter you want pure moisture from non-humectants like water or aloe and emolients which help to trap this moisture in during the drier climates.
Originally Posted by belasuna
Thanks Del and Belasuna! I do think the "sealing" part is necessary for high humidity....maybe as Frizzbgone mentioned I should try the Gel-les'c for that.
Del, it never had occurred to me that there were "light" moisturizers, but now that I think about it I guess you are right!
Lastly, honestly, humectants scare me. It's like the weather has to be *just right* in order for you to use them, otherwise....disaster! But maybe I should give them more of a chance!
2c-3a. Thick density. Texture = mixture of medium and fine.

Always trying to boost my curl!


Go-to products: Pink Boots, CJSG, LALSG, Abba Pure Finish gel
Experimenting with: CJAF, CJ CCCC, JCRR/CC, BRHG, PB Goo, Re:Coil, Komaza CHP, EcoStyler Protein
Didn't like: HESMU, Matrix Biolage Gelee (both too goopy)

http://public.fotki.com/thicknwavy/
Last updated: Dec. 3, 2009

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