Different company--same EXACT ingredients in product- I didn't notice UGH!

Like Tree1Likes

Has anyone ordered anything from KAM's wholesale site link? I need NOTHING, but some of the conditioners and body creams look really good....
On topic, I would be upset if a company misrepresented themselves & their products as well...I sure wish I knew what companies y'all suspect are doing this. I'm very naive when it comes to this, I suppose...
Originally Posted by Curly Girl Fla
I've ordered before. Got some shampoo/conditioner for a friend's family and some lotions and EOs for myself. I like Jasmines creams better, but DH is finding the lotions just fine. I'm ordering something that is the exact same ingredients as a very popular product on the boards and when asked my friend wanted more shampoo and conditioner.

I did have a problem with my order and the PayPal going through. Kept waiting and waiting--finally got an email that they were canceling for non payment. I called and resent the PayPal--and it took them two days to get it. Their prices are good enough--and it's where a lot of the small companies that OP mentioned seem to buy their bases. If it's not, it's a very odd coincidence.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
And I don't know if you noticed but you can order samples of almost all the bulk products. They are from $2-4. If you wanted to try a bunch out without ordering 8oz or more you could certainly try this. I think that's what I'm probably going to do with several of the things that look good as well.

I think it says they are 1oz or so samples..which is enough for me to get an idea. Not for Tahia (we need at least 2 oz of conditioner for her to get an idea..and better if its 4oz.) But the regular prices aren't bad at all.

I know for sure the two below products work for me:

The hair mask for me works better as a leave in than a DT and it has protein which my hair loves. It's pretty light:

http://www.essentialwholesale.com/product_p/603.htm

I also like this conditioning detangling spray:

http://www.essentialwholesale.com/product_p/604.htm

Works great as a refresher mid day for me. GREAT. Quite a nice product.

The following also look good:

Herbal Wheat and Oat Conditioner
Peppermint and Tea Tree Conditioner
Shampoo--Herbal Aloe and Shea, Gentle Peppermint and Tea Tree

Also some of the scrubs look great!

They have a cocoa butter lotion and shea butter lotion as well.

Overall it looks like they have some great bases!
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
So do we, as consumers, have any recourse? If we tell our product makers that we've found their bases and prefer to pay wholesale prices for the same product minus the pretty packaging and essential oil/fragrance, will it make a difference?
Knightess Firmus Aurum, Maid of the Mitten, Slayer of Dissertation Dragons in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
2b/medium; CG 5/20/09
Wash, co-wash, co: Queen Helene Royal Curl Shampoo / Conditioner, Kiehl's Amino Acid Shampoo / Conditioner, Redken Fresh Curls Shampoo, CJ Daily Fix,
Tigi MM
Stylers: Sally's Neutral Protein Filler as spray, Queen Helene Royal Curl Creme, LALSG
Techniques: Plop and Diffuse
Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...4&postcount=97

I can't buy most of their products because of the castor oil. But I know you've used some of their products already--with pretty packaging! I'll save you money, those are the two lotions I bought--shea butter and coco butter--Jasmines is MUCH nicer.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
How about the EO's you tried kam? They are pretty reasonable for the size I need (small LOL)

Also solidgold they have lots of sulfate free shampoo's..you could get samples..although I think they are all very similar...but I do like the Spa one
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
I was just going to pose this question to a Moderator -- but maybe someone else knows? Would starting a co-op to order from this company be against forum rules?

People could order their own samples and we could pool our orders and split up gallons. I've done this before and would love to do it for a few of the products I'm thinking about ordering now. I know as a vendor one can't post, but I wouldn't be ordering for profit, it would just be for a few of the products I know that I wouldn't use a gallon of.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

Is there a minimum you have to buy when purchasing from this company?
$5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066
I was just going to pose this question to a Moderator -- but maybe someone else knows? Would starting a co-op to order from this company be against forum rules?

People could order their own samples and we could pool our orders and split up gallons. I've done this before and would love to do it for a few of the products I'm thinking about ordering now. I know as a vendor one can't post, but I wouldn't be ordering for profit, it would just be for a few of the products I know that I wouldn't use a gallon of.
Originally Posted by goobernut
It's worth asking!!

I'd be very interested in this as well!
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
Is there a minimum you have to buy when purchasing from this company?
Originally Posted by curlykey
Not that I can see anywhere and I've combed the site!
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
Haven't used the EOs yet, still had others. Can't imagine that they wouldn't be good.

I don't think they have a minimum order. That's usually not my problem.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
like SunshineGrrl said, formulas often list the ingredients in the same order but have each in different amounts, just ranked in the same order.

I've had hugely different results from products in the same line that looked identical except for 1 or 2 ingredients or even completely identical because of this.
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
I too thought the same thing.
LOL I knew that question was coming.

I didn't post that info because I didn't want to trash a company. I went back over the websites and can't find where they say they make products from scratch--they say they use quality organic or other ingredients and such. It's not that I really care if they use a base or not..it's just more now I've got to be comparing products across companies to look for the same base

In one case there wasn't even any scent added to the product. It looks like literally a repackage. Now nowhere on the site does it say its scented..so again my bad.

I was mostly just ranting that now I've got to kick it up a notch and start comparing products all over the place if I want to try new companies.

I really want to support these smaller businesses but this is going to make it way more complicated!
Originally Posted by Alexjoujou
I thought that was what this site is for...comparing and sharing the facts and our experiences with different hair products.

I mean we spend alot of money with these companies, so it's only fair that we know what's what. I can understand and
respect the fact that you don't want to hurt their business, but to me..the truth is..

1. They're not paying us-we buy from them

2. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be misled.. unknowingly paying for the same product from different companies..no matter what the item is!

I'd be mad as ****. This is why I like to stick to only a few different companies when it comes to hair care products...and thank God I've finally found a line that really has everything I need!


Shout out to Marsha from CJ!

I know her stuff is top of the line..she's really into making sure she has nothing but quality products!
http://members.fotki.com/Versacecrazy/



CURL JUNKIE ZOMBIE !!!
Man, I'm so glad for this site, because otherwise I don't think I ever would have noticed this phenomenon. Now I really want to know what the dupe products are, too! If I can get a gallon of a conditioner I love wholesale for a fraction of the retail price, I'm all over it.

So are these wholesalers the kind of suppliers that salons use when they have their own lines? I've wondered before at small salons that have their own product lines - I can't imagine that they develop the products themselves and get them manufactured.
3A with some bits of 3B; fairly porous, I think (bumpy strands!), growing out old dye damage. No chemical treatments/color since 06/2010.

Claim to fame - Inventor of plopping when it was called "the towel trick"!!

Back on CG as of 02/09/2013
Cleanser: Deva No Poo
Rinse-out/LI: Deva OneC, homemade protein conditioner/detangler
Styler: Krystal Ecostyler, LALSG, trying Biolage Gelee

Growing my hair as far as it'll go - approaching hip stretched, waist curly!
Man, I'm so glad for this site, because otherwise I don't think I ever would have noticed this phenomenon. Now I really want to know what the dupe products are, too! If I can get a gallon of a conditioner I love wholesale for a fraction of the retail price, I'm all over it.

So are these wholesalers the kind of suppliers that salons use when they have their own lines? I've wondered before at small salons that have their own product lines - I can't imagine that they develop the products themselves and get them manufactured.
Originally Posted by battah

I agree.....good question.
Essential wholesale has several products that look great. I'm also glad this was brought up, otherwise I never even thought about it. The reason I pay more for "natural" products is because I want to support small businesses that are working hard to make it. When I think "natural" or "organic", I certainly don't think about a "base" conditioner with just EO or fragrance added......I'm definitely going to start looking closer at ingredients now...and considering buying from EW in bulk and adding my own scents....the only problem is I want to try several products and I don't want to have 5 gallons of stuff that will last till I'm 200 years old! I may have to order some samples as Alex mentioned to see which products I like and then I will order in bulk. There are 3 long hair gals in our home, so we do tend to go through products rather quickly...this would be a great way to save some $$.

ETA: I noticed they also sell 16 oz for reasonable prices. I would like any input from anyone that orders from this place as to how you like the products. TIA.
$5 off first order at iherb use code KEY066

Last edited by curlykey; 12-30-2009 at 04:32 PM.
Alex, I think you're saying it perfectly. When you buy from one of these "boutique" companies--and paying a lot more than drugstore products plus shipping, you expect to receive something special. Getting a base with an EO added is not special. You have every right to feel that someone tried to take advantage of you.
Originally Posted by kathymack
ITA ... When you purchase a product from different companies - particularly ones that aren't supposed to be connected - I think it is a fair assumption to make that you should receive a different product. I understand the point that Laurabeth was making when it came to Proctor & Gamble - they manufacture several different brands, so it is highly likely that there will be some similarities ... but I don't expect to see that from small companies claiming to sell their OWN (often "handmade" or "handmixed") products. If we are assuming that the companies are individually owned, than why would their products be identical. The other huge issue is the shipping cost. To pay separate shipping costs for essentially the same product .... that is not right.

I know that there are times when products can appear to be the same, but because of the amounts of individual ingredients, they are actually different. I bought a conditioner from one of the companies and found it to be IDENTICAL to what was at Essential Wholesale. The only difference was the Lavender EO that had been added. Not only was it identical in the ingredients that were listed, but the product itself. The consistency, look, and peformance of the product was IDENTICAL. I could have gotten 32oz of product for the same price as the 8oz product I had already paid for.

I've tried several things from Essential Wholesale. I don't think they are as good as DM, CJ, KC, Jasmine's or Shescentit, but they are definitely good products with very good ingredients ... and I must add - at an amazing price.

Has anyone ordered anything from KAM's wholesale site link? I need NOTHING, but some of the conditioners and body creams look really good....
On topic, I would be upset if a company misrepresented themselves & their products as well...I sure wish I knew what companies y'all suspect are doing this. I'm very naive when it comes to this, I suppose...
Originally Posted by Curly Girl Fla
The products I've tried from here are:
  • Citrus Shampoo & Conditioner
  • Lavender Shampoo & Conditioner
  • Herbal Wheat and Oat Conditioner
  • Hair Masque
The only negative thing I found was the packaging. The 16oz bottles don't have a flip top - only a screw top. I ended up pouring the products into the plastic condiment containers (meant for picnics) ... They were just over $1, are squeezable and have a lid to protect it from water damage.

Type: 3a fine & dense,with normal porosity, terrible product junkie
ROUTINE: LI, enhancer, gel, plop with Curlease towel, serum product (either CIAB or Gel-les'c), clip & diffuse.
Too many favourite products to list ... I finally have my routine that works and alot of products to choose from. My product stash is huge, but well loved !!!
I went to try and compare ingredients at some of the small company websites. Two of three didn't list ingredients. I'd say a "red light" should go off anytime there aren't ingredient lists.

If the seller has an issue with sending you the list, that might be another sign. (I know one of these companies couldn't send me a list when I asked--probably a year+ ago.) And in email conversations, it was obvious she just didn't know as much as I do about ingredients--and that was after I was on nc.com for less then a year! Of course, you can explain that you are looking for handmade products--and have found too many small companies repackaging bulk bases. And go from there!
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I went to try and compare ingredients at some of the small company websites. Two of three didn't list ingredients. I'd say a "red light" should go off anytime there aren't ingredient lists.

If the seller has an issue with sending you the list, that might be another sign. (I know one of these companies couldn't send me a list when I asked--probably a year+ ago.) And in email conversations, it was obvious she just didn't know as much as I do about ingredients--and that was after I was on nc.com for less then a year! Of course, you can explain that you are looking for handmade products--and have found too many small companies repackaging bulk bases. And go from there!
Originally Posted by kathymack
Excellent advice! This is a great idea.
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
So what companies and products?
Originally Posted by Heather0kay
LOL I knew that question was coming.

I didn't post that info because I didn't want to trash a company. I went back over the websites and can't find where they say they make products from scratch--they say they use quality organic or other ingredients and such. It's not that I really care if they use a base or not..it's just more now I've got to be comparing products across companies to look for the same base

In one case there wasn't even any scent added to the product. It looks like literally a repackage. Now nowhere on the site does it say its scented..so again my bad.

I was mostly just ranting that now I've got to kick it up a notch and start comparing products all over the place if I want to try new companies.

I really want to support these smaller businesses but this is going to make it way more complicated!
Originally Posted by Alexjoujou
I thought that was what this site is for...comparing and sharing the facts and our experiences with different hair products.

I mean we spend alot of money with these companies, so it's only fair that we know what's what. I can understand and respect the fact that you don't want to hurt their business, but to me..the truth is..

1. They're not paying us-we buy from them
2. I'm sure they wouldn't want to be misled.. unknowingly paying for the same product from different companies..no matter what the item is!
Originally Posted by VersaceCrazy
The more I looked at this thread, the more I thought about how appropriate it is to name the companies. If it was big line (i.e. Redken), I don't think there would be any hesitation to name the brand(s). I do think that after reading this thread and being told about the Essential Wholesale site (thanks Kathymack), it will allow us to make a more informed choice when we purchase items from 'handmade' companies.

The link and this post are fascinating.

What's interesting -- and I don't blame you -- is that the OP won't name the two companies. I imagine they are both popular on this site and revealing their names would seriously hurt the "mixtress" and the business. The other thing is the OP could be wrong, but I doubt that.
Originally Posted by Honeysmoke
My one hesitation about naming the company was that although I HIGHLY suspect they are using the Essential Wholesale items, I can't prove it. I'm not a scientist that can say for certain that there is the exact amount of each ingredient listed. I'm going to let you draw your own conclusions .... see below ....

Wow, I never thought of this.

Would you be willing to post the ingredients? That way you are not trashing the companies, but it might open our eyes as to what to look for. Even the word "base" leaves me blank -- not sure what that would look like.
Originally Posted by wavycurly40+
I decided that this is more than reasonable ... here the ingredients (as per nc.com), because the site doesn't list the ingredients. After comparing the ingredients myself and considering that the site doesn't list the ingredients .... I am highly suspicious, but as I said above - draw your own conclusions.

Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Hydroxyethyl Cellulose (plant derived), Phenoxyethanol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Lavendula officinalis (Lavender) Essential Oil, Citric Acid

Here are the ingredients from Essential Wholesale ...

Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Hydroxyethyl Cellulose, Phenoxyethanol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid

I highlighted (bold font)the only difference I could see between the two listed ingredients. As I said before, without an analysis being conducted on each product to determine whether the concentration and quality of the ingredients are the same, I would not be willing to say for certain that both products are identical ... however ... one costs $22.05 for a half gallon and the other costs $15.00 for 8oz.

Of interest, this was posted on the 'about us' section of the website that sells the above product (listed in red above)
When the hair products I was using at the time did not provide enough moisture to serve my hair needs, I began researching products and ingredients that were moisture intensive. I discovered that natural humectants (substances that attract moisture from the air) were the best options for my hair to thrive. Throughout my research I learned that many beauty products contain harmful chemicals and toxins that can irritate skin and even cause cancer. I became scared of the potential threats and dangers of toxins such as parabens and sulfates and decided to create my own line of beauty products free of those harmful ingredients. After 6 months of figuring out how to make hair care products in my apartment kitchen, I knew it was time to share my products with the world.

I first created an eco-friendly hair care line, made with natural & organic ingredients,


It is the highlighted section above that really bugs me. Is it true??? After looking at the ingredient lists above, I don't believe that it is.

What I think is criminal about companies like this, is that it takes away from companies like, Kinky Curly, Afroveda, Curl Junkie, Oyin's, Shescentit and Jasmine's to name a few ... It must be awfully frustrating for companies like these to see other's advertise their 'discovery' or 'creation' of their handmade products after struggling with their hair, if all they are doing is purchasing their products from companies like Essential Wholesale. I'm sure there are many other companies out there that are similar to Essential Wholesale.

I know this is likely a standard process for larger companies like Proctor & Gamble, but they are not advertising products that they have created in "their apartment kitchen".
Type: 3a fine & dense,with normal porosity, terrible product junkie
ROUTINE: LI, enhancer, gel, plop with Curlease towel, serum product (either CIAB or Gel-les'c), clip & diffuse.
Too many favourite products to list ... I finally have my routine that works and alot of products to choose from. My product stash is huge, but well loved !!!
I agree FrizzBgone. I would be the first one to name all the companies that I've found that just basically order the base from Essential wholesale and add scent -- but I don't have PROOF. I can't prove that they don't use a slightly different amt, or that they don't hand mix it. They could have just copied it *shrugs*

There are two other companies other than the one you're referring to that basically use a base and add scent. And they are both ones I've heard about from this board. One seems to have products that are original (or the base is not purchased at essential heh), and the other looks like all they do is resell the Essentials product line.

now go to Etsy and search for hair conditioner and you'll find about 3 more companies that do the same thing. they claim they hand make it too. Frauds.

I know which company you're referring to Frizz, and honestly, out of the 3 companies that I know do that, her website is the least offensive of the three. The other two claim to lovingly hand mix every single thing that you order from scratch to ensure freshness! At least the company you're referring to doesn't have that splattered on every page lol. It takes a while to find that little blurb. I also think that the way she words it -- she mentions several times "I wanted to create a hair care LINE". I think she very gently skirts the truth on purpose. Rather than the other companies that seem to be flat out lying. I don't think you can call adding a EO or FO "hand mixing".
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

I just did my second order from essentialwholesale.com. It went better this time. As I said earlier, my PayPal payment hadn't gone through and it took three weeks to figure out there was a problem!

I place my order last Friday and got it today. UPS could have delivered it yesterday, but the tracking said today--so even though it was at their local hub at 1:57 am, they didn't put it on the truck to be delivered yesterday.

I bought 1/2 gallon of the:

http://www.essentialwholesale.com/product_p/278.htm

They call it simple Aloe Jelly that's 96% organic. I'll use it tomorrow. If it's like the original product, I'll post it for samples at half the price.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams

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