Different company--same EXACT ingredients in product- I didn't notice UGH!

Like Tree1Likes

Look at High End Companies who makes lipsticks, creams and potions that all have the same base products as the next cosmetic manufacturer, it is the nature of mass production.
Consumers settling for what is offered is the name of the game.
Herd Mentality, what is good for Joan is also good for Joanette.....

Food is pretty much the same
Ice Cream bases are all the same, just different quality of ingredients and amounts.....

It is about the Almighty Dollar like the lady above stated.....

It is all of our best interest as consumers to research the companies we buy our products from to see what is actually happening as far as where the product comes from, who is marketing the product, and who is actually producing it.
You may be quiet shocked to learn that your lovely designer bag and designer perfume is made by the same company.....

Google high end cosmetic companies and see who actually owns what... It is an eye opener....
3b /3c
HG Summer List
Boots Pink is the bomb on my summer hair.
Donna Marie MiraCurls
Poos: KCCClean, JCChealting
Leave In: KCKT, KomazaCalifia
Conditioners:AOHR
Styling: KCCC, BRHG, UFCM, MC
Deep Tx's: CJCR and LustraSIlk
Your mind is like a parachute, It only functions when its open.....
Reality, What a concept.~G. Carlin
lovestosamba
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well I know of 2 companies that definitely use Essential Wholesale bulk products as their base. In fact, one company on etsy has a body scrub that has the same exact ingredients as the bulk scrub on the essential wholesale website. EXACTLY THE SAME. Do these small companies think consumers are stupid? Another company touts a hair conditioner that is the same base as Essentials and all she did was add avocado butter and oil to it. You can do that yourself!!!!!!! Now that I know about this bulk site I am checking all hair product ingredients. Handmade, yeah right.
For anyone following this thread -- I've put up the Essentials Wholesale Co-Op thread.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

I guess I'm in the minority on this issue. As long as a seller isn't outright lying about ingredients, etc, I don't really care how they make their products. For all I know VO5 buys a base in giant 1000 gallon tanker trucks, adds some flavoring and color, bottles it, and sells it to me!

Sure I could make my own. I make my own bath salts. But I also buy them. I make my own soap. But I also buy them. I make my own body butters. But also buy them ready-made. Just depends on my mood, their prices, my laziness.

Again, if they're lying about something, that's a no no. But if someone buys base for 50 cents, adds some oils and flavors, and prices it at $3, that doesn't bother me a bit.
In Western PA
Found NC in 2004. CG since 2-05, going grey since 9-05. 3B with some 3A.
Hair texture-medium/fine, porosity-normal except for the ends which are porous, elasticity-normal.
Suave & VO5 cond, LA Looks Sport Gel, oils, honey, vinegar.
http://public.fotki.com/jeepcurlygurl/ password jeepy **updated Feb 2014**
https://www.facebook.com/lifetheuniverseandtodd


Wow, I never thought of this.

Would you be willing to post the ingredients? That way you are not trashing the companies, but it might open our eyes as to what to look for. Even the word "base" leaves me blank -- not sure what that would look like.
Originally Posted by wavycurly40+
I decided that this is more than reasonable ... here the ingredients (as per nc.com), because the site doesn't list the ingredients. After comparing the ingredients myself and considering that the site doesn't list the ingredients .... I am highly suspicious, but as I said above - draw your own conclusions.

Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Hydroxyethyl Cellulose (plant derived), Phenoxyethanol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Lavendula officinalis (Lavender) Essential Oil, Citric Acid

Here are the ingredients from Essential Wholesale ...

Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Hydroxyethyl Cellulose, Phenoxyethanol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid

I highlighted (bold font)the only difference I could see between the two listed ingredients. As I said before, without an analysis being conducted on each product to determine whether the concentration and quality of the ingredients are the same, I would not be willing to say for certain that both products are identical ... however ... one costs $22.05 for a half gallon and the other costs $15.00 for 8oz.
Originally Posted by FrizzBgone
I love that product. I feel scammed.
4a/b Texlaxed hair w/ highlights. Medium texture & high porosity.

HG's: CJ Daily Fix, Bobeam Cheris Hibiscus shampoo bar, KC Spiral Spritz, Knot Today, CJ Rehab, KBB LL Hair Mask, Cassia, KCCC, oil blend of Avocado, Camellia, Jojoba, & Meadowfoam oils

SL APL BSL MBL

I love that product. I feel scammed.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen
Think positive - now you can get it cheap cheap!
Rhode Island - New England curly
2c-3a/F/i (Fia), shoulder length, need it cut!
Mod-CG since 10/09 - over 1 year!!

Cleanse: Suave condish, WF 365 lavender poo, soap, BS/ACV
Leave in: KCKT, CJ CF
Current winter stylers: CJ SG (HG!), AOMM, Boots, ALWAYS top w/ BRHG
PT: AOGPB, Emergencee, CJ CF
Diffuser dependent!
I love that product. I feel scammed.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen
I know, both FrizzBgone and I do too. In part, its what drove me to start the co-op so I could let others know that there is an alternative. It's my way of letting people know what's going on. You have to give the owner credit, because there are a ton of products on that website, and for her to market that particular one as a curl enhancer was genius.

I'm just trying to push for education at this point and let other people know where they can get a nearly identical product. Compare her other products to the Essential wholesale site. You'll find a lot of similarities.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

I love that product. I feel scammed.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen
I know, both FrizzBgone and I do too. In part, its what drove me to start the co-op so I could let others know that there is an alternative. It's my way of letting people know what's going on. You have to give the owner credit, because there are a ton of products on that website, and for her to market that particular one as a curl enhancer was genius.

I'm just trying to push for education at this point and let other people know where they can get a nearly identical product. Compare her other products to the Essential wholesale site. You'll find a lot of similarities.
Originally Posted by goobernut
I would feel scammed as well, and rightfully so. When a company is fraudulently putting forth a product as lovingly mixed by hand, when apparently all that's being done is mixing in a little fragrance into a premade base, it's misleading at best and sitting squarely in fraudulent territory, IMHO.

goobernut - I appreciate you bringing this issue out in the open.
Well, it really wasn't ME -- alex was the first one who noticed it and pointed it out. I kinda then went nutto and started combing the web. I knew who she was talking about, because I knew what order she had just made recently lol.

So then I started scouring the different websites and found a TON of similarities. For a while we thought the DoC didn't have a dupe, but then I found it mwhwhahah (I'm sure some others spotted it too -- because they were doing the same thing I was).

I just felt like I had to do something And how many of us were going to order a GALLON of the Simple Aloe Jelly. So I could do both things, I could get my cheap supply of a DoC look alike, and I could promote the awareness that a lot of companies aren't what they seem, or that they are not what they promote themselves to be.

Or if I'm wrong, and these companies don't use these bases, at least we've found a cheap alternative
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

So has anyone actually tried the EW version of this yet? Does it perform exactly the same??
Discovered CG 2007

2C Fia BSL/Thick/Med-Coarse/Low(crown)-Normal Porosity Protein and Oil Sensitive

Link-Spritz & Condish Washing

I'm aCurlJunkieJunky

My hair LOVES Coconut DESPISES Soap Bars


CJRehab or H&B Fix, Deva NO POO, EO Rose & Cham POO & Condish, CJ CurlFix, CJ Pattern Pusha, CJ CIAB, SS FHG, KCCC, BRHG, AG Mousse Gel, ACV Rinses,Shikakai Conditioning Hair Rinse.
So has anyone actually tried the EW version of this yet? Does it perform exactly the same??
Originally Posted by DEL2C
Identical!
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams

I love that product. I feel scammed.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen
Think positive - now you can get it cheap cheap!
Originally Posted by kayaelle
This is yet another example of why I love this site. How else would we have found out about this. Thanks to Alex for posting, Goober for all her research, Kathymack for posting about Essential Wholesales, etc etc .... Awesome teamwork gals !!!

The product works amazingly well on my hair as well - I get compliments everytime I use it. BUT I really did feel like I had been duped ... using a base as a BASE is one thing. If a company adds a lot of extra stuff to it or combines bases to make something new, than I'm okay with that ... I do not have the time or desire to do it ... HOWEVER, if you sell a base on its own and spin it as if it is your own handmade creation, that really turns me off.

I love supporting smaller companies owned by women. I think it is a great thing we can do for one another. When a company passes of someone else's product as being their own creation (lovingly handmade ), it isn't only dishonest, it hurts all the legimate businesses out there who are putting the time, effort, research and money into a product that truly is handmade.
Type: 3a fine & dense,with normal porosity, terrible product junkie
ROUTINE: LI, enhancer, gel, plop with Curlease towel, serum product (either CIAB or Gel-les'c), clip & diffuse.
Too many favourite products to list ... I finally have my routine that works and alot of products to choose from. My product stash is huge, but well loved !!!
I got a 15% off coupon for the Amourai Organique website in my inbox today and I had a good chuckle about how I could get it 50% off from essentialwholesales. This thread has been most enlightening!
http://www.dormroomcurly.blogspot.com


www.twitter.com/dormroomcurly

Fine/thin 2c/3a, Low-Medium Porosity, Dry!
I didn't read the entire thread but I've always been a bit suspicious about how all these teeny "handmade hair products" companies can spring up out of no where so fast with perfectly developed and tested products. Who knew we had so many "kitchen chemists" hiding out at home stirring bubbling cauldrons of hair conditioner?

I've always assumed that these "homebased" business were getting their products premixed and measured from a supplier somewhere and just dumping some scent in....precisely why I won't pay an arm and a leg for somebody to repackage a product from a 20 gallon drum to an 8oz bottle. I could do that myself. "handmixing-" is entirely different from "self-developed".

marketing is everthing, it catches a lot of fish but sometimes the fish catch on and stop biting...JMHO.
shoulder length inverted bob; fine; 3A-3B; med-thick density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; seems to hate moisturizing products and oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10

receive $10 off 1st order of $40 & up, or $5 off on smaller orders, when using iHERB code: GIK909
I didn't read the entire thread but I've always been a bit suspicious about how all these teeny "handmade hair products" companies can spring up out of no where so fast with perfectly developed and tested products. Who knew we had so many "kitchen chemists" hiding out at home stirring bubbling cauldrons of hair conditioner?

I've always assumed that these "homebased" business were getting their products premixed and measured from a supplier somewhere and just dumping some scent in....precisely why I won't pay an arm and a leg for somebody to repackage a product from a 20 gallon drum to an 8oz bottle. I could do that myself. "handmixing-" is entirely different from "self-developed".

marketing is everthing, it catches a lot of fish but sometimes the fish catch on and stop biting...JMHO.
Originally Posted by Ondulee
Rhode Island - New England curly
2c-3a/F/i (Fia), shoulder length, need it cut!
Mod-CG since 10/09 - over 1 year!!

Cleanse: Suave condish, WF 365 lavender poo, soap, BS/ACV
Leave in: KCKT, CJ CF
Current winter stylers: CJ SG (HG!), AOMM, Boots, ALWAYS top w/ BRHG
PT: AOGPB, Emergencee, CJ CF
Diffuser dependent!
AJJ...as a junkie I will tell you....get used to it!!! Most things are the SAME thing. Heck, within a lot of lines a lot of the products are just the same thing with a different name, give or take a few ingredients. They aren't going to tell you this why? It's the almighty dollar baby! They want that money.
Originally Posted by empressri
I know many of the P&G (Proctor & Gamble--(Pantene, Herbal Essences, Aussie, etc), Unilever (Dove, Suave), and L'Oreal (Garnier Fructis, L'Oreal VIVE, not to mention salon brands from Matrix, Biolage, Redken, L'Oreal Serie Expert, Artec) products have the same shampoos over and over, conditioners over and over, leave-ins over and over, etc with very slight variations between formulas.

However, like SunshineGrrl said, formulas often list the ingredients in the same order but have each in different amounts, just ranked in the same order.

I've had hugely different results from products in the same line that looked identical except for 1 or 2 ingredients or even completely identical because of this.
Originally Posted by laurabeth33
My DH who is a pharmaceutical compounding tech. explained to me that you can pretty much tell the amount of ingredients by where the ingredient falls on a list.
Such as: Water = highest volume
Sodium chloride = mid volume
Dextrose = least volume

Would be: 1 aka 8 oz cup water
1/2 cup aka 4oz sodium chloride
1/3 cup 3.33 oz dextrose

It is basically a 1:2:3 ratio.

If the companies change the formulary it would be in poids and drams so as not to alter the recipe enough to change or alter the desired results.
Quality of ingredients is another determinate for product performance.

It is ashamed companies cannot be forth coming with the facts, but then what would set them apart from other products on the market.
Keep in mind the inert ingredients can and do affect the end result of products performance as does quality of ingredients.
3b /3c
HG Summer List
Boots Pink is the bomb on my summer hair.
Donna Marie MiraCurls
Poos: KCCClean, JCChealting
Leave In: KCKT, KomazaCalifia
Conditioners:AOHR
Styling: KCCC, BRHG, UFCM, MC
Deep Tx's: CJCR and LustraSIlk
Your mind is like a parachute, It only functions when its open.....
Reality, What a concept.~G. Carlin


Wow, I never thought of this.

Would you be willing to post the ingredients? That way you are not trashing the companies, but it might open our eyes as to what to look for. Even the word "base" leaves me blank -- not sure what that would look like.
Originally Posted by wavycurly40+
I decided that this is more than reasonable ... here the ingredients (as per nc.com), because the site doesn't list the ingredients. After comparing the ingredients myself and considering that the site doesn't list the ingredients .... I am highly suspicious, but as I said above - draw your own conclusions.

Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Hydroxyethyl Cellulose (plant derived), Phenoxyethanol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Lavendula officinalis (Lavender) Essential Oil, Citric Acid

Here are the ingredients from Essential Wholesale ...

Aloe barbadensis (Organic Aloe) Juice, Hydroxyethyl Cellulose, Phenoxyethanol, Tetrasodium EDTA, Citric Acid

I highlighted (bold font)the only difference I could see between the two listed ingredients. As I said before, without an analysis being conducted on each product to determine whether the concentration and quality of the ingredients are the same, I would not be willing to say for certain that both products are identical ... however ... one costs $22.05 for a half gallon and the other costs $15.00 for 8oz.
Originally Posted by FrizzBgone
I love that product. I feel scammed.
Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen

Added scent vs Unscentd..
64 oz Lavender scented for $60.00
vs
64 oz unscented for $22.05

Cost for essecential oil, addition of, mixing and finishing.

It is all about the bottom line.
3b /3c
HG Summer List
Boots Pink is the bomb on my summer hair.
Donna Marie MiraCurls
Poos: KCCClean, JCChealting
Leave In: KCKT, KomazaCalifia
Conditioners:AOHR
Styling: KCCC, BRHG, UFCM, MC
Deep Tx's: CJCR and LustraSIlk
Your mind is like a parachute, It only functions when its open.....
Reality, What a concept.~G. Carlin
I guess I'm in the minority on this issue. As long as a seller isn't outright lying about ingredients, etc, I don't really care how they make their products. For all I know VO5 buys a base in giant 1000 gallon tanker trucks, adds some flavoring and color, bottles it, and sells it to me!

Sure I could make my own. I make my own bath salts. But I also buy them. I make my own soap. But I also buy them. I make my own body butters. But also buy them ready-made. Just depends on my mood, their prices, my laziness.

Again, if they're lying about something, that's a no no. But if someone buys base for 50 cents, adds some oils and flavors, and prices it at $3, that doesn't bother me a bit.
Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl
VO5 is a very different case - they're a large company not claiming to be natural, hand-made, lovingly crafted in someone's kitchen or anything near. The issue that posters are having is that the companies in question do appear to be lying about something - saying that they carefully designed/mixed/created recipes for these products when in fact they only added some EO, re-packaged and priced it and called it a day.
OMG, LOOK!!

...It's a siggie.
Okay, I'm going to go off on this rant again, because I just ran across another Etsy vendor who I had put in my favorites quite some time ago, because she had really neat looking stuff.

Well NOW that I'm very familiar with the ingredients from Essential Wholesale (cause I've been shopping for goodies -- and thanks to a very peculiar ingredient allergy), ALL HER PRODUCTS are from EW. And listen to what she has on her listing (makes me so dang (@#*&@#(*&$),

"I was inspired to create this serum after reading Dr. Nicholas Perricone, M.D.'s top-selling book, The Wrinkle Cure, in which he promotes supplementing with DMAE as a treatment for reducing wrinkles. In case you're not familiar with Dr. Perricone's products, they range in cost from $38 to well over $100 for his wrinkle cure products."

She charges $18.95 for an OUNCE of this stuff. On the EW website its 13.70 for 16 oz. Since this is a facial serum, it is not scented.

Just please be wary guys when ordering organic/natural products from "mixtresses" I have been very disheartened by this whole thing and like Alex first mentioned, do I really wanna compare ingredients for every thing against an EW list? I have come to be able to recognize the ingred list lol just from the ingreds that EW favors... its ridiculous.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

Okay, I'm going to go off on this rant again, because I just ran across another Etsy vendor who I had put in my favorites quite some time ago, because she had really neat looking stuff.

Well NOW that I'm very familiar with the ingredients from Essential Wholesale (cause I've been shopping for goodies -- and thanks to a very peculiar ingredient allergy), ALL HER PRODUCTS are from EW. And listen to what she has on her listing (makes me so dang (@#*&@#(*&$),

"I was inspired to create this serum after reading Dr. Nicholas Perricone, M.D.'s top-selling book, The Wrinkle Cure, in which he promotes supplementing with DMAE as a treatment for reducing wrinkles. In case you're not familiar with Dr. Perricone's products, they range in cost from $38 to well over $100 for his wrinkle cure products."

She charges $18.95 for an OUNCE of this stuff. On the EW website its 13.70 for 16 oz. Since this is a facial serum, it is not scented.

Just please be wary guys when ordering organic/natural products from "mixtresses" I have been very disheartened by this whole thing and like Alex first mentioned, do I really wanna compare ingredients for every thing against an EW list? I have come to be able to recognize the ingred list lol just from the ingreds that EW favors... its ridiculous.
Originally Posted by goobernut
I had EXACTLY the same thing happen to me with a Vitamin C serum from another company. It is IDENTICAL to the one on EW. The Vitamin C Serum is $13.40 for 16oz and the other company sells it for $18 for 1 oz.

This company isn't even an Etsy company. They have a storefront in western Canada. I haven't been able to find anything similar to their body butters, but I suspect that all their facial products are from EW or another similar business.

I was really angry when I first saw it, but I calmed down and realized that this is likely commonplace ... and thankfully, we now have the option of checking EW. I am still amazed that EW doesn't have a minimum order. The fact that they will sell 16oz sizes is a huge bonus to all of us 'wise ones' that now know they exist.
Type: 3a fine & dense,with normal porosity, terrible product junkie
ROUTINE: LI, enhancer, gel, plop with Curlease towel, serum product (either CIAB or Gel-les'c), clip & diffuse.
Too many favourite products to list ... I finally have my routine that works and alot of products to choose from. My product stash is huge, but well loved !!!

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