Different company--same EXACT ingredients in product- I didn't notice UGH!

Like Tree2Likes

All of you 'wise ones' are wonderful!! Right after reading this thread, I ordered a sample of an EW product so I can compare it against this product that my hair is so happy with at the moment. If it works the same on my hair, it will be great to be able to get a lot more product for a lot less money.
http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

lovestosamba
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Last edited by lovestosamba; 01-23-2010 at 07:25 AM.
Wow, thanks for the knowledge ladies, another thing I have to look out for.
Rock your own style, dance to your own beat
BC'ed on 12/19/09, transitioned 9 month 12 days and loving every Minute.
Products LOVES:
SheaMoisture CES, Ecostyle OO, Long Aid gel, castor, Olive & jojoba oil, Shea butter, V05 Strawberry, Cream Of Nature Argan Oil treatment, Crece Pelo, Silicon Mix, NuNATT, Karite masque.

Products lines I would love to try: Miss Jessie's, KBB , Qhemets and Hairveda.

http://public.fotki.com/Antiguancurlygirl
I got my sample of EW Aloe Jelly from kathymack yesterday and tried it today. I have to say KM is correct in that it's identical to the 'other product'. I'm really happy with it!
http://public.fotki.com/msgiblet/ - pw: gibber -- Pics Added 7/10/11
Fine, Thick, Normal Porosity, Normal Elasticity

Countess Balashi of Divi Beach in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

If I'm Going To Have A Bad Hair Day, It Might As Well Be In Aruba!

Very interesting thread. thanks to all that worked so hard for the rest of us.(well and yourself
Ok, we now know DOC is the same as what is on this Essential wholesale site. What other products that everyone loves on this site have we figured out?
Very interesting thread. thanks to all that worked so hard for the rest of us.(well and yourself
Ok, we now know DOC is the same as what is on this Essential wholesale site. What other products that everyone loves on this site have we figured out?
Originally Posted by wavy wonder
Goobernut has started this thread for the co-op, which has all the companies listed.

Essential Wholesale Co-Op

I'm looking forward to ordering! yay!
Rhode Island - New England curly
2c-3a/F/i (Fia), shoulder length, need it cut!
Mod-CG since 10/09 - over 1 year!!

Cleanse: Suave condish, WF 365 lavender poo, soap, BS/ACV
Leave in: KCKT, CJ CF
Current winter stylers: CJ SG (HG!), AOMM, Boots, ALWAYS top w/ BRHG
PT: AOGPB, Emergencee, CJ CF
Diffuser dependent!
Well I know of 2 companies that definitely use Essential Wholesale bulk products as their base. In fact, one company on etsy has a body scrub that has the same exact ingredients as the bulk scrub on the essential wholesale website. EXACTLY THE SAME. Do these small companies think consumers are stupid? Another company touts a hair conditioner that is the same base as Essentials and all she did was add avocado butter and oil to it. You can do that yourself!!!!!!! Now that I know about this bulk site I am checking all hair product ingredients. Handmade, yeah right.
Originally Posted by lovestosamba
wow This my first day on this site and there is so much to read here.
I 'm a small business owner in the food industry and I have close friends that have bath and body businesses. One makes soap using the melt and pour method which is a "base" but then makes bath salts, bath bombs, massage oil and more. The other makes soap from scratch using lye but then buys cream bases that she add scent that compliments her soaps. She also makes perfume oil, lip balm and body butter and is working on adding mineral make up to her line. It hurts me as a small business to hear some of the comments.

I understand to a point some of the concerns. I don't think these small companies think consumers are stupid. I think they are just trying to make a profit to stay afloat. It's a balance of time energy and resources. It's the same for me in the food industry. I can ofter several products with great organic healthful quality ingredients but I also need to sell several other products that don't take so long to be prepared and that is not expensive to serve. I need to do this so that I can just break even. The profit comes over time. I hear the same thing not only from my culinary and bath and body business friends but from my clothing designer friends too. They get t-shirts and bags made to add to their hand sewn line to help out with sales. I have no problem with that. Another example is one of my bath and body friends sells this hemp and olive soap which is expensive to produce, so she sells cheaper to produce items along with it. Her stuff is still great and I still consider it handmade. There's also a fine line... if I buy something like whipped shea butter.... is that handmade?. Is it more important that each product be "handmade" than just being good.

I'm sorry to go off on this rant. And I don't want to dis-credit anyone feelings here but there's always another side. I like supporting small business. I'm not going to buy from anyone I feel don't care or value me as a customer. If I feel a product, price as well service is good I'm ok with it.

I also just want to comment on the issue of safety and sanitation. In making hair care, bath and body as well as food. There is a issue of preservation...many people use bases so that they can provide safe products that are preserved properly and have been tested for bacteria, yeast, mold etc. A lot of people who are making products from scratch don't even know to properly sanitize their equipment when making products. Your equipment must be sterile (spoons, mixing bowl etc..) Bacterial infections are real and very dangerous. A base can be even safer than any product made from scratch especially cream products with oil and water.
Thank you for posting this information. I was hesitant to order from a few companies especially on etsy( thanks goobernut) because sometimes you just know when something is quite off. My future hubby kept telling me that most of these comapnies are snake oil sales men and we're just falling prey to their propaganda. At least EW was discovered in the process.
I don't mind if a small business uses a base for their products. I just don't expect to be lead to believe that said products made from bases are true handmade products. Lots of smaller businesses uses bases and then add other stuff, and say so. I'm fine with that.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
I don't mind if a small business uses a base for their products. I just don't expect to be lead to believe that said products made from bases are true handmade products. Lots of smaller businesses uses bases and then add other stuff, and say so. I'm fine with that.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Exactly what I think.

My issue was never with the fact they used a base itself (althought that is the path the thread went down anyway) but that they said it was all concocted in thier kitchen by hand and such--and they spent all thier time mixing away and so on. So imagine my surprise when I got 2 of the same products. Products that had nothing added except scent--same ingredients, same effect on the hair--same product. I was expecting 2 products not 1. I didn't need 2 of the same. That's my issue. If you mix and do formulas yourself than you are approved to say that. If you use a base ad add scent--sorry--I don't consider that hand made..hand POURED into the bottle...o.k. -- just don't lie. Don't say you've been crafting the formula for months and then all you've been doing is adding fragrance oil or whatever. Lame.

I don't expect to, nor will I, buy products that I have to cross check all the time against known base companies. Why would I bother?

Basically, for me, this means I no longer purchase nor buy any product from small businesses that I do not personally know of--no more surfing the net for smaller businesses. I really don't have extra money to pay 2 companies for the same exact product.

Right now I am going with established lines only and one's I've already checked-- Curl Junkie, Jessicurl, Qhemet Biologics, etc.
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
I started reading this thread when it started and just came back! Wow! I am so glad I never ordered from her...mainly because I didn't want to spend so much on shipping, but thank goodness.

I am going to go home and check EW for all my other stuff so I can see what I can get cheaper (face wash, soap, lotion...).

Thanks, Ladies!
FIA: 2b/cFii
normal porosity
I don't mind if a small business uses a base for their products. I just don't expect to be lead to believe that said products made from bases are true handmade products. Lots of smaller businesses uses bases and then add other stuff, and say so. I'm fine with that.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Exactly what I think.

My issue was never with the fact they used a base itself (althought that is the path the thread went down anyway) but that they said it was all concocted in thier kitchen by hand and such--and they spent all thier time mixing away and so on. So imagine my surprise when I got 2 of the same products. Products that had nothing added except scent--same ingredients, same effect on the hair--same product. I was expecting 2 products not 1. I didn't need 2 of the same. That's my issue. If you mix and do formulas yourself than you are approved to say that. If you use a base ad add scent--sorry--I don't consider that hand made..hand POURED into the bottle...o.k. -- just don't lie. Don't say you've been crafting the formula for months and then all you've been doing is adding fragrance oil or whatever. Lame.

I don't expect to, nor will I, buy products that I have to cross check all the time against known base companies. Why would I bother?

Basically, for me, this means I no longer purchase nor buy any product from small businesses that I do not personally know of--no more surfing the net for smaller businesses. I really don't have extra money to pay 2 companies for the same exact product.

Right now I am going with established lines only and one's I've already checked-- Curl Junkie, Jessicurl, Qhemet Biologics, etc.
Originally Posted by Alexjoujou
ITA 100% Why would I want to spend 3x as much when I all I need is to add scent to a base product and get the same results.

But on the other hand I don't have a problem buying a product created from a base and other ingredients added in. I really can't be bothered by mixing up these concoctions on my own - I would rather pay for the finished product in that case.
3a fine; dense; medium-low porosity, frizz prone

Current Favs: KM Shampoo bars, Darcy's pumpkin seed conditioner, CJ Repair Me; CJCR, CJCCC; Marie Dean products; DM Miracurls Gelly; KCCC; CJCQ; LA Looks sport gel

Curl Junkie & Marie Dean


http://public.fotki.com/BeachCurlGurl/
i've been drooling over some skincare products (antiaging stuff). now i can actually afford to buy some!! thanks, ladies!
Well I know of 2 companies that definitely use Essential Wholesale bulk products as their base. In fact, one company on etsy has a body scrub that has the same exact ingredients as the bulk scrub on the essential wholesale website. EXACTLY THE SAME. Do these small companies think consumers are stupid? Another company touts a hair conditioner that is the same base as Essentials and all she did was add avocado butter and oil to it. You can do that yourself!!!!!!! Now that I know about this bulk site I am checking all hair product ingredients. Handmade, yeah right.
Originally Posted by lovestosamba
wow This my first day on this site and there is so much to read here.
I 'm a small business owner in the food industry and I have close friends that have bath and body businesses. One makes soap using the melt and pour method which is a "base" but then makes bath salts, bath bombs, massage oil and more. The other makes soap from scratch using lye but then buys cream bases that she add scent that compliments her soaps. She also makes perfume oil, lip balm and body butter and is working on adding mineral make up to her line. It hurts me as a small business to hear some of the comments.

I understand to a point some of the concerns. I don't think these small companies think consumers are stupid. I think they are just trying to make a profit to stay afloat. It's a balance of time energy and resources. It's the same for me in the food industry. I can ofter several products with great organic healthful quality ingredients but I also need to sell several other products that don't take so long to be prepared and that is not expensive to serve. I need to do this so that I can just break even. The profit comes over time. I hear the same thing not only from my culinary and bath and body business friends but from my clothing designer friends too. They get t-shirts and bags made to add to their hand sewn line to help out with sales. I have no problem with that. Another example is one of my bath and body friends sells this hemp and olive soap which is expensive to produce, so she sells cheaper to produce items along with it. Her stuff is still great and I still consider it handmade. There's also a fine line... if I buy something like whipped shea butter.... is that handmade?. Is it more important that each product be "handmade" than just being good.

I'm sorry to go off on this rant. And I don't want to dis-credit anyone feelings here but there's always another side. I like supporting small business. I'm not going to buy from anyone I feel don't care or value me as a customer. If I feel a product, price as well service is good I'm ok with it.

I also just want to comment on the issue of safety and sanitation. In making hair care, bath and body as well as food. There is a issue of preservation...many people use bases so that they can provide safe products that are preserved properly and have been tested for bacteria, yeast, mold etc. A lot of people who are making products from scratch don't even know to properly sanitize their equipment when making products. Your equipment must be sterile (spoons, mixing bowl etc..) Bacterial infections are real and very dangerous. A base can be even safer than any product made from scratch especially cream products with oil and water.
Originally Posted by midea
your perspective is definitely from the for profit POV. it basically boils down to ppl being pissed on & being told its raining. everyone is trying to save & make money, but when those aspirations lead you to shady business practices and consumer fraud, which include a wide range of fraudulent and deceptive practices in the advertising, marketing, sale, or provision of goods or services, lines have to be drawn. If someone is implying or outright saying that they have personally developed their formulations, spent the needed time & money for product development & raw product, testing & research what not, as a consumer & a home made mixtress myself, I can appreciate that & would b.i.tch a lil less about exorbitant prices some of these companies are charging for products. its sad to see that many folks r so eager to cash in on the natural/ curly hair niche they are willing to get us all balls deep W/ no petro jelly. it takes absolutely NO SKILL or special talent to add fragrance & pour pre-made product in a 50 cent ass bottle & charge 4 times what its actually worth.
from what I know...when you have a business you have to pay for the supplies, the lab, pay the people IN the lab, if you have someone doing your website, shipping, and i know im missing stuff.

so if empressri decides to buy a base of "generic deep conditioner", gets it sent to her home, adds an exclusive can't get anywhere else empressri scent, pours it in a bottle and goes BOW!!!

"it's handmade, you cant get this anywhere else, it does this, that, the third and it's better than that other stuff..."

and then i post the ingredients and someone goes hey...this is the same ish as that "generic deep conditioner, who the hell does empressri think she's fooling!"

i only have myself to blame. times are hard on the boulevard, believe me i know. the SO and i sell shea butter products. when i ship it out, there are no frills or anything, i try to keep it simple so you aren't paying for a pretty package.
Lady Hasytal in the Land of Product in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

"Trust is knowing your SO would do the right thing in the face of strange vagina." Nej
[/B]
your perspective is definitely from the for profit POV. it basically boils down to ppl being pissed on & being told its raining. everyone is trying to save & make money, but when those aspirations lead you to shady business practices and consumer fraud, which include a wide range of fraudulent and deceptive practices in the advertising, marketing, sale, or provision of goods or services, lines have to be drawn. If someone is implying or outright saying that they have personally developed their formulations, spent the needed time & money for product development & raw product, testing & research what not, as a consumer & a home made mixtress myself, I can appreciate that & would b.i.tch a lil less about exorbitant prices some of these companies are charging for products. its sad to see that many folks r so eager to cash in on the natural/ curly hair niche they are willing to get us all balls deep W/ no petro jelly. it takes absolutely NO SKILL or special talent to add fragrance & pour pre-made product in a 50 cent ass bottle & charge 4 times what its actually worth.
Originally Posted by msjaim
This!!!!

Seriously! I don't have an issue with small companies using a base. Again, I don't think ANYONE would have ever got their panties in a wad if that was the only thing this was about. It is about lying to the customer and telling them that you developed and hand make each and every batch, when you don't.

I love to support small businesses, but not when they are trying to make a business of lying to me.

I order a condish (and its one of my faves) that starts out as a base. I don't care. I love it, it is one of my favorites. She also adds some things to it to make it her own recipe. Basically they are conditioner flakes that she melts down and mixes stuff with. She has two different conditioners (one with protein and one without) and to BOTH of the condishes she sells she adds other ingreds. This is not an issue.

it is the "I mix this by hand in small batches to ensure quality. I even make sure that when I mix a batch, I don't scent some of it, so that my customers with special requests will be satisfied." When in reality, she just left some of the base unscented.

To Midea: Melt and pour soap is a whole nother ball of wax. I don't care if bath and body creators use that. If you ahve a friend that makes clothes, but orders t-shirts to suppliment her line, that's a WHOLE different issue. We all know when that goes on, its obvious. Or maybe not so obvious sometimes, but I think we all understand adding a few "quick grab cheapie" items that pull in some profit with little effort. What most of us are angry about, are those people who are claiming that they have CREATED something, that ALL of their products are a lie. Not that they are filling in gaps in their line, but that they are completely lying about all of their products.

There are quite a few vendors who have been "exposed" so to speak, and some of those vendors are retaining customers BECAUSE of how they have worded their websites. Like I originally said, one of my fave online products is a base and I don't mind. And to be honest, I think its the vendors who have only used bases to fill in some gaps, or who have never made any claims that they AREN't using bases who have retained those customers.

If the whole business is a sham, don't be mad cause people found out lol. No one is talking to the small businesses who "fill in a few gaps" with a few easy to produce, low cost products. LOL. Its the businesses that are ordering a base for 20 bucks a gallon, repackaging it without doing a dang thing to it, and then selling it for 16 bucks for 8oz and claiming it is the "shining star" of their product line!
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

If the whole business is a sham, don't be mad cause people found out lol. No one is talking to the small businesses who "fill in a few gaps" with a few easy to produce, low cost products. LOL. Its the businesses that are ordering a base for 20 bucks a gallon, repackaging it without doing a dang thing to it, and then selling it for 16 bucks for 8oz and claiming it is the "shining star" of their product line!
Originally Posted by goobernut
YES!!!! If you lie and then it's found out...that speaks of your business etiquette. Hmm, if you lie about that, what else are you lying about, ingredients??
ricotdorothy likes this.
Lady Hasytal in the Land of Product in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

"Trust is knowing your SO would do the right thing in the face of strange vagina." Nej
[/B]
If the whole business is a sham, don't be mad cause people found out lol. No one is talking to the small businesses who "fill in a few gaps" with a few easy to produce, low cost products. LOL. Its the businesses that are ordering a base for 20 bucks a gallon, repackaging it without doing a dang thing to it, and then selling it for 16 bucks for 8oz and claiming it is the "shining star" of their product line!
Originally Posted by goobernut
YES!!!! If you lie and then it's found out...that speaks of your business etiquette. Hmm, if you lie about that, what else are you lying about, ingredients??
Originally Posted by empressri
It not only reveals how a person does business but it also reveals the persons deep seated ethics & values(or lack thereof) of their entire life. If they don't care about lying to customers, they won't care about lying in every other area of life either...generally untrustworthy and others will trust these ones to their disadvantage. It's all about the "me; first, last and only" belief system so prevalent in the world.
shoulder length inverted bob; fine; 3A-3B; med-thick density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; seems to hate moisturizing products and oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10

receive $10 off 1st order of $40 & up, or $5 off on smaller orders, when using iHERB code: GIK909
It not only reveals how a person does business but it also reveals the persons deep seated ethics & values(or lack thereof) of their entire life. If they don't care about lying to customers, they won't care about lying in every other area of life either...generally untrustworthy and others will trust these ones to their disadvantage. It's all about the "me; first, last and only" belief system so prevalent in the world.
Originally Posted by Ondulee
I had a friend whom was lied to about ingredients after ASKING the person does it have this in it, and they said no so she bought it. Used it, set her skin on fire. She asked the lady are you sure it doesn't have it in there, she said oh yes, sorry.

SORRY?!?!?!?!?! You told me no!!! Then lied after I purchased and used it!!!!
Lady Hasytal in the Land of Product in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

"Trust is knowing your SO would do the right thing in the face of strange vagina." Nej
[/B]
I completely agree with this, and this too is my first time on this site and after seeing some of the things stated on this topic as well as others...this will be my last. I'm offended by some of the comments too (more so of the rationalizations and logic though to be fair). Even if one were to find that there are several companies that resale Essential wholesale...uhhh...so what? Essential Wholesale uses a base too...it's called Emulsifying wax NF. Look it up. It's not the proper INCI name that they SHOULD list. It's the name of a well-known wax base. One of the cheaper emulsifiers and detanglers "and all they did was add oil" too. That's the point. I hope that this doesn't sound rude but I'm put off by the fact that so many are bashing small businesses for this. I'm curious as to where some of the people who are complaining about this, think that companies get their products and ingredients. They get them from bulk suppliers and wholesalers. Even if they did handmake every product...they STILL have to buy bases in bulk to MAKE those homemade products. Essential wholesale WHOELSALES. They are supposed to sell to small businesses. That's the purpose of their company. They also offer private label. Being upset about this is comparable to getting mad at the grocery store for re-selling food products (that they got from someone else much cheaper). Honestly, Essential Wholesale sells the majority of their products to large and small businesses, who exactly did you think was buying those huge tubs of shampoo? A blogger? Essential Wholesale tells people who buy from them to mark the products up..they advise this. Essential wholesale is a bulk SUPPLIER that just so happens to sell to the public, and to be quite honest I think that it more than equals out. No one on here is purchasing 5 gallons of Essential wholesales conditioner at $100 a pop and then paying another $100 just for shipping. Can you imagine if all of your supplies are from them? It's very easy to spend $1000+ dollars. Buying from them is expensive and hardly profitable in the end. Take it from someone who's been there done that. I'm more miffed at Essential Wholesale for supplying the public with the SAME products that they charge companies thousands of dollars for for private label. That's completely unfair IMO. How would you feel if you spent thousands of your hard earned money on conditioner bases and shampoo only to find a naturallycurly forum where people have your name posted next to your supplier? If you feel cheated because you spent $16 on a 8 oz shampoo you could have gotten for $16 at 16 oz from EW than compare that cheated feeling to the feeling of those small women ran companies that are reading this forum right now wishing they hadn't spent that extra $250 for EW's products. Not even comparable. I'm curious how many conditioner bases EW has for $20 though. As well as how many businesses actually purchase 1 gallon from them (they dont). The fact that someone would even say that exemplifies the blatant difference between the business and the customer. They know how much they pay for products...you dont.


You all are accustomed to buying from FNWL and Mountain Rose Herbs, well guess what...those businesses didn't start out supplying the public..they started out supplying small businesses. FNWL, MRH, and Essential Wholesale wouldn't be who they are had it not been for these small businesses buying from them. They are suppliers. They supply. Bottom line...everyone has a supplier...everyone. It's normal for companies to buy products in bulk and then resale them, ironically...naturallycurly does that themselves. It's business. Home based companies like Curls and Blended Beauty ect, give places like naturallycurly 40% to 50% off of a product so they can resale it to you all at regular $16+ price. It's business.

As for the "if they are lying about this than they could be lying about ingredients!!!!111" theory. Not buying it. First off, if they are buying EW's bases they CLEARLY aren't "lying" about ingredients, as EW's ingredients are clearly displayed all over their website. Secondly, I've seen several people "allude" to companies both big and small "hiding ingredients". These people provide no proof. No evidence of the sort, and half the time don't even bother to defend their asinine remarks. But sheep followers from forums quickly slurp the propaganda tainted koolaide. Just left a topic where someone said Giovanni "must" be deceiving customers because of their ingredient listing. A conspiracist will always find a conspiracy. And fools generally believe them. So logic in of itself blows that argument out of the water...

Thank God I stopped my business and am through with Essential Wholesale as well as issues such as these. Not only does EW pad their shipping (at outrageous amounts), but they don't measure the amount of product they give you. I have gallons of product here that are missing about 16 oz, and then others that are filled to the top. They give you what they want you to have, and don't have to answer to anybody because they are suppliers. Also worth stating is the fact that they remove ALL reviews under a "3 star" from their website. Meaning, the reviews on their website don't reflect what was ORIGINALLY posted. There's a reason why there are absolutely no "2 star" ratings on that site. It's not a coinky dink. They remove those posts as soon as they're posted. Do you consider this "lying", and "deceitful"? Will posts be made to address this issue. Call my bluff. Put a one star on any product on EW's website and see how long is stays there. It will be removed. Quickly. This comes from someone who spent thousands of dollars on thier products once upon on a time and had about ten honest reviews on every product I bought. You can only edit a review on their site, but if you give them below a 2 star review...they will completely remove it.

If some of the people here feel like they are getting ripped off by smaller businesses (which is ridiculous since these businesses actually did nothing wrong) than of course buy from EW in peace. But in all fairness, don't slander and bash these small businesses just because they use some form of a base (which is what EW is guilty of themselves). Don't post their business names right next to EW's. Don't destroy them. You don't have to buy from them. But don't ruin them over this.

I'm in several soaping groups and forums with women who are dedicating their money and time into this business (as well as those small businesses who's names are being attatched to EW on that other topic; which regardless to whether they are supplying those business is the text book definition of tacky in every shape and form), I'll be sure to post a link of this forum (and all EW posts) in those groups as well as send this to those companies who have been mentioned before as a means to warn them, so they can at least save what's left of their business name.

I've read that you can't delete your account on here, so hopefully a mod will just ban me and I'll set my info on my profile so I wont be contacted from here again.

Peace

wow This my first day on this site and there is so much to read here.
I 'm a small business owner in the food industry and I have close friends that have bath and body businesses. One makes soap using the melt and pour method which is a "base" but then makes bath salts, bath bombs, massage oil and more. The other makes soap from scratch using lye but then buys cream bases that she add scent that compliments her soaps. She also makes perfume oil, lip balm and body butter and is working on adding mineral make up to her line. It hurts me as a small business to hear some of the comments.

I understand to a point some of the concerns. I don't think these small companies think consumers are stupid. I think they are just trying to make a profit to stay afloat. It's a balance of time energy and resources. It's the same for me in the food industry. I can ofter several products with great organic healthful quality ingredients but I also need to sell several other products that don't take so long to be prepared and that is not expensive to serve. I need to do this so that I can just break even. The profit comes over time. I hear the same thing not only from my culinary and bath and body business friends but from my clothing designer friends too. They get t-shirts and bags made to add to their hand sewn line to help out with sales. I have no problem with that. Another example is one of my bath and body friends sells this hemp and olive soap which is expensive to produce, so she sells cheaper to produce items along with it. Her stuff is still great and I still consider it handmade. There's also a fine line... if I buy something like whipped shea butter.... is that handmade?. Is it more important that each product be "handmade" than just being good.

I'm sorry to go off on this rant. And I don't want to dis-credit anyone feelings here but there's always another side. I like supporting small business. I'm not going to buy from anyone I feel don't care or value me as a customer. If I feel a product, price as well service is good I'm ok with it.

I also just want to comment on the issue of safety and sanitation. In making hair care, bath and body as well as food. There is a issue of preservation...many people use bases so that they can provide safe products that are preserved properly and have been tested for bacteria, yeast, mold etc. A lot of people who are making products from scratch don't even know to properly sanitize their equipment when making products. Your equipment must be sterile (spoons, mixing bowl etc..) Bacterial infections are real and very dangerous. A base can be even safer than any product made from scratch especially cream products with oil and water.
Originally Posted by midea

Last edited by OhMyCurlz; 02-24-2010 at 11:24 PM.

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