Different company--same EXACT ingredients in product- I didn't notice UGH!

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UGH. Just a mini rant. So I ordered some leave in from one company and also got some from another company and its the same dang product--and it happened TWICE--with 3 companies!

I'm mostly ranting at myself for NOT comparing ingredients. Cleary both these businesses buy bases or bulk. That's not my issue. When I look at ingredients I am just checking for things I don't like (like cones and mineral oil)...NOW I gotta be COMPARING them all over as well? Its not like the names are the same or the description is the same.

All 3 companies had decent service. All are priced relatively the same. So I guess if I like the product I'll just buy the one who has the best scent or something. Of course now I have at least TWO bottles of the same product for each. IRRITATING!

I'm only mad at myself here...but I do sometimes wish that co's had to indicate whether it was from a base or repackaged product vs. entirely unique to them. Would make it much easier on me!

I mean what's a PJ to do??
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
I would be really upset, if that happened to me, too. Not just a rant. Depends on how company represents itself. You started a thread a while ago asking opinions about this. If company is only adding scents, and not ingredients, I'd be really mad. We can all buy bases, too. Who cares about pretty packaging.

I can't use a lot of the bases because they contain castor oil. I'd certainly buy them instead of some of the online products, if I found the base.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
So what companies and products?
Type: 3a, fine, thin, low porosity Water/Climate: soft/ marine Washes: water w/washcloth, shikakai, clay Condition: Style:Seamollient, CurlsPFCCP, Miracurl, Gel-les'c, CK; rudeechick's super soaker method; blot, air dry 30 min; diffuse Also: coconut oil

LOL I knew that question was coming.

I didn't post that info because I didn't want to trash a company. I went back over the websites and can't find where they say they make products from scratch--they say they use quality organic or other ingredients and such. It's not that I really care if they use a base or not..it's just more now I've got to be comparing products across companies to look for the same base

In one case there wasn't even any scent added to the product. It looks like literally a repackage. Now nowhere on the site does it say its scented..so again my bad.

I was mostly just ranting that now I've got to kick it up a notch and start comparing products all over the place if I want to try new companies.

I really want to support these smaller businesses but this is going to make it way more complicated!
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
I would be really upset, if that happened to me, too. Not just a rant. Depends on how company represents itself. You started a thread a while ago asking opinions about this. If company is only adding scents, and not ingredients, I'd be really mad. We can all buy bases, too. Who cares about pretty packaging.

I can't use a lot of the bases because they contain castor oil. I'd certainly buy them instead of some of the online products, if I found the base.
Originally Posted by kathymack
You know what I think I'm going to start avoiding castor oil since the one thing these all have in common is that!

Even though it doesn't bother my hair (in fact my hair seems to like it) that may be enough since you are right most of the bases seem to contain that.

I mean I personally might have feelings on bases and such but I think there might be a place for them for folks who don't want to do their own..that's fine..i just wish that it was easier to tell when purchasing so I don't purchase two things that are the same as each other!
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/

You know what I think I'm going to start avoiding castor oil since the one thing these all have in common is that!

Even though it doesn't bother my hair (in fact my hair seems to like it) that may be enough since you are right most of the bases seem to contain that.
Originally Posted by Alexjoujou
I think that's a good place to start. The one thing to look for is unusual ingredients. Just examine CJ products--you know Marsha has to "know her stuff." Her ingredients lists are usually VERY complicated--and it's not just the garden variety ingredients.

Forgot to add. If in doubt, a good place to compare ingredients with bases is:

http://www.essentialwholesale.com/

It appears that several of the companies buy their bases there.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams

Last edited by kathymack; 12-27-2009 at 02:23 PM.
I hate to be the devil's advocate because I would be pissed if I found this out, too. BUT...it could be possible that they're using the same ingredients just with different amounts? The order might be the same and it still be a different product, but similar in nature.

The only reason I say this is because when I make lotion, I use a basic recipe, but then tweak it here and there for what I want specialized and it turns into a different product all together, but the ingredients are the same and would technically be listed in the same order, but it's a slightly different product.

Yeah, I understand your frustration now that I think about it. Even if it is a slightly altered product, I would be upset because I now have 2 products that do basically the same thing.
2B...ish
http://public.fotki.com/SunshineGrrl/ pw: drama
Products
This area is under construction as my hair type changed and nothing works well for me. I shampoo, I condition and pretty much have done nothing but chuck my hair in a messy bun for the past oh...year? Yeah, I'm that lazy.

No...going no-poo or CG does not work for me. It leaves me overconditioned and oily in a second no matter what I use, so that's not what's not working.
Sunshine, you have a good heart. It's like believing that CURLS makes two different products for their adult and childrens line--they just happen to have the same ingredients in the same order. They won't answer questions about it or are flippant in their replies--but charge 25% less for the Curly Q.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
I hate to be the devil's advocate because I would be pissed if I found this out, too. BUT...it could be possible that they're using the same ingredients just with different amounts? The order might be the same and it still be a different product, but similar in nature.

The only reason I say this is because when I make lotion, I use a basic recipe, but then tweak it here and there for what I want specialized and it turns into a different product all together, but the ingredients are the same and would technically be listed in the same order, but it's a slightly different product.

Yeah, I understand your frustration now that I think about it. Even if it is a slightly altered product, I would be upset because I now have 2 products that do basically the same thing.
Originally Posted by SunshineGrrl
Exactly. Now I have 2 of the same product. I paid for the same product twice. There is no differential other than scent for either of these products.

The issue for me is *not* that I can get it cheaper myself as a base and add EO or FO (I can and will but that's beside the point) but that when I'm looking at buying a product from one of the small female owned businesses now I have to go cross check it against all my other products already to make sure it's not the same product. To me that seems like too much of a hassle. I'm not sure its worth it. I believe in supporting these businesses--I want to see them suceed but I just can't be cross checking stuff because they've given the impression they are a mixtress and come to find out the only mixing is by pouring it from a galloon container to a 8 oz bottle!

I can say that one of the companies--it definitely seemed from an interview I read that she was doing all her own mixing. Yet the product I got is just the base itself..nothing extra. I just feel misled. I may email her and ask her to explain herself given what she said in the interview and whats on the website.
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
AJJ...as a junkie I will tell you....get used to it!!! Most things are the SAME thing. Heck, within a lot of lines a lot of the products are just the same thing with a different name, give or take a few ingredients. They aren't going to tell you this why? It's the almighty dollar baby! They want that money.

Hmmm dang I can send you a pm? I'm nosey hehee
Lady Hasytal in the Land of Product in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

"Trust is knowing your SO would do the right thing in the face of strange vagina." Nej
[/B]
Wow, I never thought of this.

Would you be willing to post the ingredients? That way you are not trashing the companies, but it might open our eyes as to what to look for. Even the word "base" leaves me blank -- not sure what that would look like.

Wurly and proud!
Modified CG since 2008.
HOLY COW!!!

Okay, look. For those of you who are ingredient hounds, I would definitely suggest going to the website that Kathy linked and reviewing ingredient lists. Seriously, some of you might be happy because you can buy your fave conditioner (sans scent) at a severely discounted price.

Not only that, there were several Etsy stores that I was looking at buying products from -- wow, no more. All they did was purchase the base and then offer to custom scent it.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

The link and this post are fascinating.

What's interesting -- and I don't blame you -- is that the OP won't name the two companies. I imagine they are both popular on this site and revealing their names would seriously hurt the "mixtress" and the business. The other thing is the OP could be wrong, but I doubt that.

The OP is upset she will have to cross check ingredients. I wouldn't want to do that either. But I take my blessings where I can get them and would think of this discovery as helping, not hindering. If I can buy something in bulk that works well and possibly pay less, I will take that.

Sell one of them or use both of them. Knowledge is power. Tell us which base to buy. Folks wouldn't do this if they thought someone would catch them. Of course, I have to wonder whether these two companies realize they are hawking the same item.
Oops, sorry; I missed Kathymack's link the first time.

Very interesting! I have noticed, from time to time, that certain "clusters" of ingredients show up time and time again. This might have something to do with it.....
AJJ...as a junkie I will tell you....get used to it!!! Most things are the SAME thing. Heck, within a lot of lines a lot of the products are just the same thing with a different name, give or take a few ingredients. They aren't going to tell you this why? It's the almighty dollar baby! They want that money.
Originally Posted by empressri
I know many of the P&G (Proctor & Gamble--(Pantene, Herbal Essences, Aussie, etc), Unilever (Dove, Suave), and L'Oreal (Garnier Fructis, L'Oreal VIVE, not to mention salon brands from Matrix, Biolage, Redken, L'Oreal Serie Expert, Artec) products have the same shampoos over and over, conditioners over and over, leave-ins over and over, etc with very slight variations between formulas.

However, like SunshineGrrl said, formulas often list the ingredients in the same order but have each in different amounts, just ranked in the same order.

I've had hugely different results from products in the same line that looked identical except for 1 or 2 ingredients or even completely identical because of this.
2b w/ some 3a
product tester geek
Oops, sorry; I missed Kathymack's link the first time.

Very interesting! I have noticed, from time to time, that certain "clusters" of ingredients show up time and time again. This might have something to do with it.....
Originally Posted by wavycurly40+
We found one product that is exactly the same as a current VERY popular product. She buys a gallon for $30.70 and pays shipping. Add a few $$ for the EOs and she can make 16 bottles that she charges $15 a piece! These ingredients are a little unusual, so it's the exact product. Plus, we've found a few others. AND this isn't either of the two companies being discussed!
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
For my part I'm just, I guess, going to have to cross check products against known bases.

Good lord sounds like a drug cartel or something

Let me put it this way. I was looking for a leave in. One that would not weigh down my fine and thin hair. So I ordered 3 leave in products from 3 different companies. All 3 came but 2 were the exact same product down to the last ingredient--only the scent was different. I tried *all* three on my hair. The original product behaved very well--it is not like the others. The other 2 were the exact same everything. Given I had to order online, pay shipping, wait for the product I was upset that I really only got 2 leave in conditioners. Not the 3 I'd ordered...or that's how I look at it. So I basically paid $23 for the same product. That upset me. Hence the rant.

I just want to be sure I don't buy the same product from different vendors if there really is no difference. In my case they are the exact same products. I actually LIKE the products I just don't need to buy endless bottles of it. One will do nicely. My OP was just to state I was bummed that this has happened now multiple times. The first time I chalked it up to me not being aware.

I'm trying products from different companies due to the fact I believe they are unique and will act that way on my hair--maybe similar but not the exact same as another product. I *personally* don't care if they start with a base (pellet, premade, melt and pour, whatever) and add stuff. But the *bottom line* is that I don't want product X and product Y and product Z all to be advertised differently, called a different name, have (maybe) a different scent but in the end all be Product A with a different label slapped on! or in disguise. I don't need 3 Product A's...I need a X, Y, and Z. That is my shopping preference though..others, well maybe hey don't mind. IDK. I do.

A couple of ingredients can make a difference--but in these cases its just obvious they're the same product. I just don't like the feeling I'm being misled...it leaves a sour taste in my mouth. AND it makes it pretty much impossible to want to buy from the smaller vendor's.

I know when I buy from someone like Marsha from Curl Junkie that these are her original products. I'm PAYING her not only for the product but for the research, testing, manufacturing, etc. I pay more for her products and I feel they are worth it. Not one of them is like another for me..all are different. Same thing with a small company like Oyin Handmade who does all their own stuff. I don't expect Oyin and CJ to have the same products with a different label on them and they don't. As a consumer this jives with my beliefs.

Will I just buy the bases myself? Maybe. This, for me, isn't really about that. It's more about paying different companies for the same product exactly. It's about being led to believe that they were individual formulations for that company and then finding out they are not. It's not even a money issue (although paying for the same product again does make me go "ouch").

I try to be an informed consumer. Its just in this case if informed means I've got to cross check like I'm trying to get a subpoena or something. No thanks!
gardencurls likes this.
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Alexjoujou; 12-28-2009 at 06:59 PM.
Alex, I think you're saying it perfectly. When you buy from one of these "boutique" companies--and paying a lot more than drugstore products plus shipping, you expect to receive something special. Getting a base with an EO added is not special. You have every right to feel that someone tried to take advantage of you.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Well put Kathy!

Not only that, but what really angers me -- is that on their website several of these companies claim to hand mix the stuff. Do they feel they can claim that because they pour it from the 5 gallon bucket to the 8oz container. Really? Because they add an EO to it?

And really, I may not like every single CJ product, but I do have some of my faves in the line. And Marsha has NEVER mis-represented herself.

Not only that, but I would also like to point out, that at the wholesale site that kathy linked, they offer services to even do that for you. They will scent it, and they have a label and bottling department. There is one company that I seriously suspects doing this. Several of the other companies labels are obviously homemade -- but seriously. Please don't put on your website that you hand mix the stuff just because you're adding a fragrance.

it's tantamount to false advertising.
Grand Goobah Caedran, Aqueous Infusion of Demulcents, Order of the Curly Crusaders

Fia 2cFi, fine texture, med porosity CG 5-29-09 * My hair loves protein! Currently using : DermOrganics Shampoo and IHM, G2B Kinkier Mousse, Re:Coil VMM, Anything Spiral Solutions! MO Sealing. Coconut Oil Pre-Poo, once a month Hard Water shampoo. Avoiding Glycerin in finishing products.

Has anyone ordered anything from KAM's wholesale site link? I need NOTHING, but some of the conditioners and body creams look really good....
On topic, I would be upset if a company misrepresented themselves & their products as well...I sure wish I knew what companies y'all suspect are doing this. I'm very naive when it comes to this, I suppose...

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