Leave-in "grabbing" your hair OR leave-ins that DON'T have slip

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Hmmm, interesting. I think I know what you mean by "grab," but I look for it more in gels than leave-ins. That's why I love Aubrey B5 Design Gel at the moment -- it grabs onto the curls while you scrunch it in, without causing your fingers to stick to the curls (causing frizz), as so many gels do.

As for leave-ins, I know what you mean by too much slip. I almost feel like too much slip can decrease curl rather than encouraging it. But what I look for in a leave-in is not so much a "grabby" feeling -- more of a mushy, squishy sort of feeling, because it helps clumps to form. But maybe that is grabbing the hair -- just in a different way? Lately I'm really liking GDLI for this. My old favorite, BWC leave-in, is starting to seem a little too slippery these days, by comparison.

Wurly and proud!
Modified CG since 2008.
You know, we're also all porous too... hrm....
Originally Posted by goobernut
I hate to be the wrench in the works but I have the same problem...and I have very low porosity. Or at least I assume I do. I get wet very quickly in the shower and scrunching out the water leaves my hair just all but dry. I floated a hair in a cup of water and it was still happily floating 24 hours later-and it wasn't sitting on surface tension.

But I've found that KCKT is too 'soft' to help hold curls, and something like JCWDT works much better-though it's still not great. On off days, though, i can scrunch in a little JCWDT and have moderate/mediocre waves, vs doing the same with KCKT and I go virtually straight.

Great topic though! I'm very curious to know what Dominicana's hand lotion has in it now though!
Originally Posted by eklecktika
Hair that gets wet and dries easily is porous. Low porosity hair has trouble soaking things up and then giving them up. My hair is short and there isn't a lot of it--it can take me four or five hours to air dry.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
You know, we're also all porous too... hrm....
Originally Posted by goobernut
I hate to be the wrench in the works but I have the same problem...and I have very low porosity. Or at least I assume I do. I get wet very quickly in the shower and scrunching out the water leaves my hair just all but dry. I floated a hair in a cup of water and it was still happily floating 24 hours later-and it wasn't sitting on surface tension.

But I've found that KCKT is too 'soft' to help hold curls, and something like JCWDT works much better-though it's still not great. On off days, though, i can scrunch in a little JCWDT and have moderate/mediocre waves, vs doing the same with KCKT and I go virtually straight.

Great topic though! I'm very curious to know what Dominicana's hand lotion has in it now though!
Originally Posted by eklecktika
Hair that gets wet and dries easily is porous. Low porosity hair has trouble soaking things up and then giving them up. My hair is short and there isn't a lot of it--it can take me four or five hours to air dry.
Originally Posted by kathymack
I take about 4 hours, even with KCCC in, which slows down drying time, and I have longish hair. It just shows porosity differences!

ETA: Although I have porous hair, I can "pass" the float test unless it is the first week post hair dye. My routine gives me enough help to pass as faux-normal in water, but its true state is porous.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.

Last edited by redcelticcurls; 01-16-2010 at 11:39 AM. Reason: adding more
You know, we're also all porous too... hrm....
Originally Posted by goobernut
I hate to be the wrench in the works but I have the same problem...and I have very low porosity. Or at least I assume I do. I get wet very quickly in the shower and scrunching out the water leaves my hair just all but dry. I floated a hair in a cup of water and it was still happily floating 24 hours later-and it wasn't sitting on surface tension.

But I've found that KCKT is too 'soft' to help hold curls, and something like JCWDT works much better-though it's still not great. On off days, though, i can scrunch in a little JCWDT and have moderate/mediocre waves, vs doing the same with KCKT and I go virtually straight.

Great topic though! I'm very curious to know what Dominicana's hand lotion has in it now though!
Originally Posted by eklecktika
Hair that gets wet and dries easily is porous. Low porosity hair has trouble soaking things up and then giving them up. My hair is short and there isn't a lot of it--it can take me four or five hours to air dry.
Originally Posted by kathymack
I agree...sounds like porous hair (mine is porous). My daughter is very low porosity--she can be under the shower head for a a couple of minutes and STILL walk out with pieces of dry hair. When we put product in her hair it never works just to put it on (like smooth it on) or it won't absorb and she'll be white haired for several hours before it soaks in. I usually kind of squeeze product into her hair and that works excellently.

The thing about liking slip that RCC said and a few others is that their hair tangles more and so the slip prevents that. This is so true with my daughter's..but not my son's hair. I swear we can detangle in the shower with tons of conditioner and from the time she steps out and dries off to the time that she puts leave in on her hair its already tangled. A number of products don't work for her because of the slip factor--her condish and leave in must be as slippery as possible to prevent the tangles.

It may entirely be the strength of the curl pattern. I mean my daughter and I are really both 2C/3A types but her curl pattern is much stronger AND she tangles very easily...mine is weaker, requires much encouragement and doesn't tangle at all pretty much ever. I comb/brush my hair maybe 2-3x per year tops. There's no need. It's always been like this.

I have so enjoyed reading the responses on this...this is really interesting!

Oh and I find grab sort of similar almost to glue in the hair--pulls hairs together and keeps them together vs. being slippery so that each strand is coated. Hope that helps. WC40 I agree--things that help clump are what I see as that kind of grabby feeling--because when things for me have too much slip it is as if each strand does its own thing..I end up with barely wavy hair that is stringy or at least not clumpy.

The odd thing is that CJ Curl Rehab does not have a lot of slip for me..my daughter was the same way. Seems weird as so many say it has lots of slip.

I normally find that condish with BTMS in the top 3-5 ingredients have more slip..but it's not always true.
FIA 2c/3aFi

Done experimenting! Loving Spiral Solutions products!

Blog: http://thewavytales.blogspot.com/
http://www.himalayausa.com/Organique...onditioner.htm

Speaking of "grabby", I stumbled across a display of this at my local market. I didn't buy anything because I didn't have my glasses but I got a puny sample to try.Today, I used this VERY "grabby" conditioner as a rinse out and used a pea sized as a leave-in and guess what? I got some great curl formation AND volume in my thin, fine non-porous hair! This conditioner smells so good! I will be back to buy some plus the shampoo and will review in a few weeks.
Type: 3a, fine, thin, low porosity Water/Climate: soft/ marine Washes: water w/washcloth, shikakai, clay Condition: Style:Seamollient, CurlsPFCCP, Miracurl, Gel-les'c, CK; rudeechick's super soaker method; blot, air dry 30 min; diffuse Also: coconut oil

Originally Posted by Heather0kay
I've been trying to buy Himalaya products for a long time. My local Indian grocery store, that might have had it, closed a while ago.

rcc, you have at least ten times as much hair as I have. I don't think we can compare drying times, LOL!
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Originally Posted by Heather0kay
I've been trying to buy Himalaya products for a long time. My local Indian grocery store, that might have had it, closed a while ago.

rcc, you have at least ten times as much hair as I have. I don't think we can compare drying times, LOL!
Originally Posted by kathymack
LOL!

It was for the above poster (eklecktika) about porosity. You and I have about the same drying time, even with our differences in hair length. It just shows that porous hair dries faster than non-porous. I should have twice the drying time that you do, but I don't because I am porous and you are not.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Thanks dominicana! Getting the 'grabby' now! I prefer grabby - too much slip - (despite the fact it feels nice) - makes me feel like my curls will drop. (do you think it could be a texture thing? I'm fine haired)
UK curly

fine to medium strands, porous, medium density
CG May 2009 - low poo occasionally
Co-wash: Tresemme Naturals
Styling -Naked Curl Defining Cream, BRHG, Mop Top, FSG
Product for a good hair day: FSG or Mop Top
Hair loves protein!
http://public.fotki.com/curlyhairmichuk/
new pics added Jan 2012

Enjoying the freedom of going curly!
Duchess of Alba, Keeper of the Tartan Curls in The Order of the Curly Crusaders
My hair is porous and very fine and I have to use a leave-in with slip. I also can't ever not use a leave-in. If I don't use one or use one without slip my hair snags and tangles when I try to put in my styling products and I can't get them distributed evenly. That will cause breakage when trying tp put in my product. My hair will also later dry frizzy.
"...just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face." ~Harry Dresden

ooh, I just remembered anothe condish I tried a long time ago. I didn't like it because of its grabbiness. Maybe we should add it to the list.
Save your world oasis fruit conditioner

ingredients:
INFUSION OF CHAMOMILE FLOWERS, BEHENTRIMONIUM METHOSULFATE, CETYL ALCOHOL, AVOCADO OIL, MANGO BUTTER, ORGANIC ALOE VERA EXTRACT, ORGANIC YERBA MATÉ EXTRACT, VEGETABLE EMULSIFYING WAX, BUTYLENE GLYCOL, DELTA GLUCONOLACTONE , CALCIUM GLUCOMATE, SORBIC ACID, A BLEND OF PURE NATURAL ESSENTIAL OILS

sorry about the caps, thats how I found it online.
http://store.saveyourworld.com/Produ...Show=TechSpecs

D
Lady Valeria of the Isle of Neraida in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

Central Florida Curly
CG since May 5, 2009
Hair Type: 3cCiii coarse\porous
Conditioners: Bioinfusion HCB, CJCR, SpiralSolutions DDMT, BellaCurl MC, BellaCurl LE, KCKT, YesToCucumbers
Stylers: CJ CCCC, FSG, KCCC, SpiralSolutions CEJ
Originally Posted by Heather0kay
I've been trying to buy Himalaya products for a long time. My local Indian grocery store, that might have had it, closed a while ago.

rcc, you have at least ten times as much hair as I have. I don't think we can compare drying times, LOL!
Originally Posted by kathymack

This is a line that Whole Foods should or needs to carry; it has NONE of those nasty chemicals. If you have a Whole Foods I'd request this line.
Type: 3a, fine, thin, low porosity Water/Climate: soft/ marine Washes: water w/washcloth, shikakai, clay Condition: Style:Seamollient, CurlsPFCCP, Miracurl, Gel-les'c, CK; rudeechick's super soaker method; blot, air dry 30 min; diffuse Also: coconut oil

You know, we're also all porous too... hrm....
Originally Posted by goobernut
I hate to be the wrench in the works but I have the same problem...and I have very low porosity. Or at least I assume I do. I get wet very quickly in the shower and scrunching out the water leaves my hair just all but dry. I floated a hair in a cup of water and it was still happily floating 24 hours later-and it wasn't sitting on surface tension.

But I've found that KCKT is too 'soft' to help hold curls, and something like JCWDT works much better-though it's still not great. On off days, though, i can scrunch in a little JCWDT and have moderate/mediocre waves, vs doing the same with KCKT and I go virtually straight.

Great topic though! I'm very curious to know what Dominicana's hand lotion has in it now though!
Originally Posted by eklecktika
Hair that gets wet and dries easily is porous. Low porosity hair has trouble soaking things up and then giving them up. My hair is short and there isn't a lot of it--it can take me four or five hours to air dry.
Originally Posted by kathymack
Oh. I totally got it bass-ackwards then. Thanks for straightening me out, Kathy...where's the smilie with the dunce hat? That doesn't make sense in my head, but I guess I just need to wrap my brain around it.

Geez I'm dense sometimes.
"It's a wonder God suffers so many fools, what with lightening so cheap"~Mark Twain

Lady Eklecktika Fidens of Caduceus

Oh. I totally got it bass-ackwards then. Thanks for straightening me out, Kathy...where's the smilie with the dunce hat? That doesn't make sense in my head, but I guess I just need to wrap my brain around it.

Geez I'm dense sometimes.
Originally Posted by eklecktika
Just think, if you hadn't said something, you would have gone on thinking you were low rather than porous. Now, you'll be able to figure out your hair a lot better.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
Hmm, this is interesting to read! I'm new to this and haven't tried a lot of products yet... but I think that FotE AVG is "grabby" on my hair. Maybe too grabby - whenever I try to scrunch it in, some of my hair sticks to the gel in my hand and gets pulled out of my clumps. I don't think I've gotten the hang of applying it yet, hehe. I often have to smooth, comb or brush my hair (don't worry, I am gentle, I promise) to smooth down the hairs it pulls out.

My hair is wavy with some ringlets/curls (wurls?) in it. I believe my hair is porous and medium/fine (on the fine side of medium). I also believe my curl pattern is on the weak side, because when my hair gets wet it straightens right out until it dries, and then out come the waves.

I'm learning a lot from this forum, you all rock!
\m/\m/
Wavy (of some sort) - Porous - Fine/Medium - Thin/Medium (I think!)
Testing too many products to list!

Somewhat of a tangent but the need for so much slip (to minimize tangling with styling) runs concurrent with the success I have with DEL's spritz and condish method. If I am using a more grabby condish then I need longer for the condish to soak in for me to be able to later manageably style.

Also, if I don't have slip in my LI my hair eventually feels dry later in the day no matter what styler I use. I'm thinking now that's probably because a grabby LI prevents me from even distribution of product.


I'm such a hair nerd - I love threads like these! :-)

BTW, what are fairy knots - are these the same as single strand knots?
Sulfate & Silcone Free since July 2009
2C-3A normal to high (ends) porosity, medium texture, lower end of med density
Currently experimenting with Water Only Washing and dropping stylers

Negative on: AOHR, mineral oil
http://public.fotki.com/CurlyQMom/
Somewhat of a tangent but the need for so much slip (to minimize tangling with styling) runs concurrent with the success I have with DEL's spritz and condish method. If I am using a more grabby condish then I need longer for the condish to soak in for me to be able to later manageably style.

Also, if I don't have slip in my LI my hair eventually feels dry later in the day no matter what styler I use. I'm thinking now that's probably because a grabby LI prevents me from even distribution of product.


I'm such a hair nerd - I love threads like these! :-)

BTW, what are fairy knots - are these the same as single strand knots?
Originally Posted by CurlyQMom
Yep!
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
My curl pattern needs it's encouragement for sure. If I don't style, I'm for sure 2c. I can bump it to 3a with successful styling. I vastly prefer leave ins with lots of slip. I might be able to get more curl formation from the grabby leave in's, but I hate the way they feel so much that I'd rather have a bit looser curl then use them and have tighter curl. I love slip! I don't need it, I just love it. I would say that CJCR and GDLI are both slippy conditioners for me. KCKT is a little grabby for me now (my hair is starved for moisture currently, so KCKT doesn't cut it right now). I think that the grabby quality could also be influenced by what's already in your hair. For instance, if you use a really moisturizing, slippy rinse out, wouldn't that make the leave in glide through your hair more easily?
http://www.dormroomcurly.blogspot.com


www.twitter.com/dormroomcurly

Fine/thin 2c/3a, Low-Medium Porosity, Dry!
Somewhat of a tangent but the need for so much slip (to minimize tangling with styling) runs concurrent with the success I have with DEL's spritz and condish method. If I am using a more grabby condish then I need longer for the condish to soak in for me to be able to later manageably style.

Also, if I don't have slip in my LI my hair eventually feels dry later in the day no matter what styler I use. I'm thinking now that's probably because a grabby LI prevents me from even distribution of product.


I'm such a hair nerd - I love threads like these! :-)

BTW, what are fairy knots - are these the same as single strand knots?
Originally Posted by CurlyQMom
I tangle like crazy and I use my Mebco comb and finger detangle at least 5 times, often more, to get rid of all the shed hairs that are caught up. I find I can detangle much easier with the S&C method. I think it's because conditioner penetrates longer.

I do the flip over hair rinse in the shower and have to hold my hair very carefully to not tangle when I right myself - that's after combing out "all" the tangles.

I can apply my LI and products upside down and no problems when I right myself with tangles. It seems everything is stuck back together by that point.

I like a base product with slip too. I think it's one of the reasons I loved CK so much for so long. It was my base layer and had so much slip.

So if those that tangle a lot prefer slip and those that don't prefer grab, what characteristic(s) makes one tangle more? Maybe that's common denominator.

I think RCC's hair and mine are pretty much opposite in texture and porosity yet we both tangle and get fairy knots.
Current Products: CJ Products: CF, DF, CT, SG, AFG, CIAB AND CK is back!
Current Experiment: S&C by D

Curl Fix and Daily Fix are my HGs


Sulphate and cone free since July 2007

wavy/curly fine texture/medium porosity/medium-low density

http://public.fotki.com/whatsercurl/

PW: wavycurly

Seek not to change the world. Rather seek to change your mind about the world.
So if those that tangle a lot prefer slip and those that don't prefer grab, what characteristic(s) makes one tangle more? Maybe that's common denominator.

I think RCC's hair and mine are pretty much opposite in texture and porosity yet we both tangle and get fairy knots.
Originally Posted by whatsercurl
whatsercurl, I think some of your tangle issues could be frequency of haircut. We have similar hair attributes, but I get my hair cut every six weeks--and never tangle unless I use a product with mineral or castor oil. I don't care about slip or "grab," it makes no difference in how my hair looks or feels.
3a (Corkicelli), highlighted, fine, low porosity
modified CG, since April '07
CG since 3/11/08

SE PA

HGs: Anything Sevi; Curly Kinks Satin Roots, Curlycue ReNew and Coil Jam; homemade FSG and okra gel; soap bars; UFD Curly Magic; Botanical Spirits Jellies, CJ Repair Me, Marie Dean Leave Ins and Curl Creams
OK, this makes sense to me. I have porous hair that wets easily. I normally use SheaMoisture leave-in which I always felt helped me in some weird way get more hold and volume even though it is very conditioning.

So, I recently ran out and didn't get my order in right away so I am having to do without. I decided to try Elucence as a leave-in which has a lot of slip until my order gets here. Though my hair feels wonderful I don't get the same effect as I do with the SheaMoisture.

Then I saw this topic and it totally makes sense to me now why I like the SheaMoisture so much better, I guess it "grabs".
3b/c ~ CG
current favorites ~ TJ's Refresh, AOHR, SheaMoisture Shea Butter leave-in, AVG, FSG

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