Leave-in "grabbing" your hair OR leave-ins that DON'T have slip

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So if those that tangle a lot prefer slip and those that don't prefer grab, what characteristic(s) makes one tangle more? Maybe that's common denominator.

I think RCC's hair and mine are pretty much opposite in texture and porosity yet we both tangle and get fairy knots.
Originally Posted by whatsercurl
whatsercurl, I think some of your tangle issues could be frequency of haircut. We have similar hair attributes, but I get my hair cut every six weeks--and never tangle unless I use a product with mineral or castor oil. I don't care about slip or "grab," it makes no difference in how my hair looks or feels.
Originally Posted by kathymack

Hmmm ... I agree somewhat with hair cuts. However, I never have split ends or breakage (my stylist is always amazed - Yay to good products and routines!) when I get it cut which is what I believe a haircut serves to minimize or fix. I get my hair cut about as often as del and IIRC she hardly gets any tangles. Plus I don't notice any difference in tangles after a cut.

I often thought it was because my hair was fine and long but rcc is coarse and long and hers also tangles.

Sorry for all my guano, goob
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This is great!

I notice that my curl formation and it's ability to maintain that formation throughout the day is generally better with a leave in that "sets the stage" by not providing too much slip. It's not that I don't like slip but that I'm not looking for detangling in a leave in--I'm looking for something to provide moisture (and sometimes protein) that helps the curl enhancer work better.

For me a leave in that has tons of slip and "slipperi-ness" is the Shescentit Coco Leave In. Although I love the smell and the moisture level it doesn't work as a leave in for me when I'm going for curl formation. It seems to have so much slip that the curls literally slide out. This may sound strange to some. However for my son it is the perfect leave in because he has very short hair that's much thicker and it prevents and helps tangles in his hair (we don't comb it much as he doesn't tangle like my daughter).

I think it may be (the whole grab issue) because my curl is not strong by itself--it needs a lot of encouragement. My hair curls more (almost like a more grabby leave in actually holds my curls together better). My daughter's curl is very strong and she adores the greater slip leave in's. She gets fairy knots and her hair will go into dred's very easily if we aren't careful and the more slip the better for her.

I'd be so curious to know if anyone else finds that they like the leave in's that grab your hair.

So I find the leave in's that grab are:

Terax Life Drops

Hairveda Moist Condition Pro

Donna Marie Conditioner

Jasmine's Babassu Conditioner, Shea Conditioner and Moisture Renewal Leave in

Curl Junkie Curl Rehab

CJ Beauticurls Leave In

Lustrasilk OOC

The leave in's or products I've tried as Leave In's that have too much slip for me are:

KCKT

Shescentit Coco Leave In

GFTN/GFSS

KBB Nectar


The ones that work great even though they have slip are the CJ CA LI and the DB Pumpkin Conditioner.
Originally Posted by Alexjoujou

I am soooo glad you brought this up. I have always wondered about this, even though I call it....things that make me go clump, it's like instant!!! I know I like it and it will be a good hair day. It does matter, on my hair, what my protein level is. Products grab or clump my hair better if I have enough protein. When I start to get oc'ed, I get more slip. Does this make sense? Everything cj makes me go clump, gftn does too, but only after I protein. Could it be the magic protein / moisture balance?
3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
Whatsercurl -- omg it isn't quano at all!

Its discussion and I love it. I figure its all sorta connected. Really, part of it is just a feel preference Like laura said, she just wants that slick feeling I have also personally wondered what made hair clump vs what didn't. I know now its not just having well moisturized hair, because when my hair was dry and frizzy it clumped better than when it was well moisturized -- so its probably different for everyone.

I'm sure there are tons of factors involved!

Oh and special thanks to those of you who are listing your grabby condishes -- I can't wait to try some and see if the concept works lol!

You know -- it may actually have something to do with positive and negative charges as well (just to throw some more crap out there). I always have a problem with static in the winter. When I would blow dry my hair straight in th winter, I'd have to load it UP with products, just so it wouldn't float into the atmosphere.
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So if those that tangle a lot prefer slip and those that don't prefer grab, what characteristic(s) makes one tangle more? Maybe that's common denominator.

I think RCC's hair and mine are pretty much opposite in texture and porosity yet we both tangle and get fairy knots.
Originally Posted by whatsercurl
whatsercurl, I think some of your tangle issues could be frequency of haircut. We have similar hair attributes, but I get my hair cut every six weeks--and never tangle unless I use a product with mineral or castor oil. I don't care about slip or "grab," it makes no difference in how my hair looks or feels.
Originally Posted by kathymack

Hmmm ... I agree somewhat with hair cuts. However, I never have split ends or breakage (my stylist is always amazed - Yay to good products and routines!) when I get it cut which is what I believe a haircut serves to minimize or fix. I get my hair cut about as often as del and IIRC she hardly gets any tangles. Plus I don't notice any difference in tangles after a cut.

I often thought it was because my hair was fine and long but rcc is coarse and long and hers also tangles.

Sorry for all my guano, goob
Originally Posted by whatsercurl
I'm just as tangly right after as cut as I am 10 months later. That doesn't seem to play a role in how tangle prone I am. I am a little more tangle prone in winter from clothing, but that's the only noticeable change. Some people tangle, some don't.
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I am wondering if this is the same "grabbiness" I get with shampoo bars which makes them so effective for some of us? Even though I get a lot of volume with
them, I always associated that rubbery , grabby feeling with being stripped.
Type: 3a, fine, thin, low porosity Water/Climate: soft/ marine Washes: water w/washcloth, shikakai, clay Condition: Style:Seamollient, CurlsPFCCP, Miracurl, Gel-les'c, CK; rudeechick's super soaker method; blot, air dry 30 min; diffuse Also: coconut oil

Just posted a theory on the tangle thread about an open cuticle / tangles vs. closed cuticle/ slip. Those of us who like grab already have slip because of nature or rinse out ect. Some people describe grabby as the product sucking the moisture out of their hair. I like that, it makes me clump, to much slip feels oc'd to me. Protien makes people feel dry, makes my hair grabby. Moisture, protein, porisity, magic balance?????
Just randomly thinking we're on to something here????
3a/3b coarse and thick.....big and red

Advanced Deva inspired Stylist
Oh and I find grab sort of similar almost to glue in the hair--pulls hairs together and keeps them together vs. being slippery so that each strand is coated. Hope that helps. WC40 I agree--things that help clump are what I see as that kind of grabby feeling--because when things for me have too much slip it is as if each strand does its own thing..I end up with barely wavy hair that is stringy or at least not clumpy.
This helps a lot, Alex!

Also, My hair gets wet easily, but takes forever to dry...4-6 hours with BSL hair. I always thought that meant I was porous...hair holding the water in and all that. But what I am reading here is mixed, saying that my hair should be drying faster if it is really porous. I'm confused.


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2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

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My hair's fine, but extremely porous. My leave-ins MUST have slip or my hair will tangle when I style it.
Hair that gets wet and dries easily is porous. Low porosity hair has trouble soaking things up and then giving them up. My hair is short and there isn't a lot of it--it can take me four or five hours to air dry.
So, I have very porous hair-gets wet quickly(regular style washing) but it also takes forever to dry because it becomes oversaturated and bloated with water. That's why Spritz and Condish is good for porous heads because that method prevents over- saturation. It allows just enough moisture(Spritz) into the hair to then allow the Conditioner(Condish) to follow which means there's a good balance of water and conditioner working in the hair. This balance stays consistent after rinsing too. Then you follow with your stylers and they all work better because they're not battling the extra water that porous hair soaks up.
shoulder length inverted bob; fine; 3A-3B; med-thick density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; seems to hate moisturizing products and oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10

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This is a really interesting post!

I have medium-thickness hair, with medium porosity. I almost never tangle, and if I do, it's never bad. But I MUST have the highest slip possible. If it's even the slightest bit grabby, my hair loses all wave definition, sticks to itself, and turns into a giant, frizzy mass. Slippery condish smoothes my hair out and calms the frizz.

Also, grabby conditioners tend to leave a sticky film on my hair, regardless of how little I use.
Put me in the "love it slippery" category. I do not like the grabby conditioners. I have porous, fine-textured, not a fan of proteins, 3a/3b hair. I do not need a lot of curl encouragement...just some moisture and my hands scrunching. I don't tangle easily either. Grabby leave-ins feel producty in my hair...like there's a layer of rough product on it...not like the feeling.
However, the past few days, I've been going without leave-in. When I style with my hands, it feels a little grabby and of course my hair isn't as smooth (without my slippery leave-in), but it looks rather good. So, grabby probably works for me, but I'm not a producty person anyways.
Just leave-in (or no leave-in, in the past few days), scrunch, and that's it...no curl creams, no gels, nadda.
That's right, I said it! I wear scrunchies!!

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This is a great thread! It is very relevant and perfect timing, LOL! I'll leave it at that....
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Last edited by runnerchicki; 03-25-2010 at 04:30 PM.

whatsercurl, I think some of your tangle issues could be frequency of haircut. We have similar hair attributes, but I get my hair cut every six weeks--and never tangle unless I use a product with mineral or castor oil. I don't care about slip or "grab," it makes no difference in how my hair looks or feels.
Originally Posted by kathymack

Hmmm ... I agree somewhat with hair cuts. However, I never have split ends or breakage (my stylist is always amazed - Yay to good products and routines!) when I get it cut which is what I believe a haircut serves to minimize or fix. I get my hair cut about as often as del and IIRC she hardly gets any tangles. Plus I don't notice any difference in tangles after a cut.

I often thought it was because my hair was fine and long but rcc is coarse and long and hers also tangles.

Sorry for all my guano, goob
Originally Posted by whatsercurl
I'm just as tangly right after as cut as I am 10 months later. That doesn't seem to play a role in how tangle prone I am. I am a little more tangle prone in winter from clothing, but that's the only noticeable change. Some people tangle, some don't.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
I'm a tangler. I can detangle and style my hair and then NOT MOVE and I swear it will tangle all on its own.

And I don't have split ends. Never have had an issue with them, but my hair just likes to wind around itself. Especially at the nape. Grrrrr.
FIA: 2cFii

Lady Crispina, Confector of Pharmaceutria and Conjurer of Exquisitus JuJu, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
I'm a tangler. I can detangle and style my hair and then NOT MOVE and I swear it will tangle all on its own.

And I don't have split ends. Never have had an issue with them, but my hair just likes to wind around itself. Especially at the nape. Grrrrr.

wow, me too!! I tangle in the shower! I tangle plopping with a floursack towel. My hair is almost like velcro in that it loves to stick to itself and tie itself into knots...
shoulder length inverted bob; fine; 3A-3B; med-thick density; normal porosity; normal elasticity- my hair loves keratin, ACV, silk protein ,Curlkeeper and AG:Recoil ; seems to hate moisturizing products and oils except mineral oil; CG- Jan/'09-mod CG Sept/'09;CG again Jan/'10/mod CG from Mar'10

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Take it with a grain of salt, but I think the grabby vs. slippery is not so much porosity, but it's about TEXTURE. A lot of wavies, especially ones that easily get weighed down, need something that is more texturizing than detangling. Slip is just that.. it slicks the cuticle to reduce friction and the hairs slide over each other easily. Texturizing does the opposite. That's why when you go to the beach you get really cool beachy waves and lots of volume, but your hair "feels" different, the salt in the water gives texture to the hair.

I like it right in the middle. A moderate amount of slip. For every day or for a leave-in anyway.
FIA: 2cFii

Lady Crispina, Confector of Pharmaceutria and Conjurer of Exquisitus JuJu, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders
Yes! Thank you, runnerchicki! That's a good description. I like it when my hair is a little texture-y/grabby.
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I'm a tangler. I can detangle and style my hair and then NOT MOVE and I swear it will tangle all on its own.
Originally Posted by runnerchicki
I hear you there runnerchicki! I think that my hair conspires to tangle the harder I try to prevent it from tangling!


Lady Caiside, Noble Lushetarian and Wavy Wayfarer of Mugglswick, in the Order of the Curly Crusaders

2b-3a Fii, porous and low elasticity

Currently using a variety of products, and looking for that magic combo

Hair bio: http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlta...5&postcount=59

Enjoying this discussion - I never tangle and love that "texture-y/grabby" effect in my products.
Mod CG since 8/08 -was wavy, poufy, and difficult before CG. low-poo nearly every day/diffuse daily
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Oh and I find grab sort of similar almost to glue in the hair--pulls hairs together and keeps them together vs. being slippery so that each strand is coated. Hope that helps. WC40 I agree--things that help clump are what I see as that kind of grabby feeling--because when things for me have too much slip it is as if each strand does its own thing..I end up with barely wavy hair that is stringy or at least not clumpy.
Originally Posted by Alexjoujou
I second this. I used to finger-comb my conditioner (Suave) into my hair and I got really good slip - but then I ended up with some tiny curls that were really sort of wimpy. My hair is very wavy rather than curly, so thinner clumps yields very stringy looking waves!

Recently though I've started doing something different in how i apply the Suave, rather than changing the product itself - rather than finger combing it through my hair and getting it all slippery, I rub the product between my palms and then "squeeze" my clumps to get the product on. And I squeeze down the hair, starting from where it comes out of my head to the ends. I find this promotes the clumping and then I get much nicer, soft bouncy waves rather than stringy ones!

2b-c/m/ii

Aussie Aussome Volume shampoo
Coconut oil + Aussie AV shampoo
Eufora aloe vera leave-in conditioner
LA Looks Sport Gel

I use the super-soaker method

This is an interesting theory. I too have noticed that "grabby" leave-ins often work best. The rule is not 100%, but it's a good guide.

Right now I'm using Jessicurl CCSS and that doesn't grab, but it works well for me.

Others I've used and liked with this quality: pink Boots, Re:Coil [I think it had it, it's been several years], KKCC, CurlKeeper, Lustrasilk. Probably others, but those are the ones I'm remembering.

My hair doesn't tend to tangle easily, either. It tangles a teeny bit at the nape sometimes. Otherwise, it has to be super long to tangle, and I have to be using a non-slip cleanser [right now Devacurl Lo-Poo] to notice any tangling in the shower.

Last edited by wild~hair; 03-27-2010 at 12:04 PM.

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