Wilt woes! my curls "soften" and wilt by the end of the day!

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  • 1 Post By SpiralHam

Dang! the reason I am posting here is that my hair is almost half silver, and of course t he silver is different from the dyed curls. I cannot find a product that will keep my curl definition throughout the day. I have used LALSG over several products, including Deva Foam, Sweet Curls FSG; I have used Biotera gel an Volumax...no luck... KCCC and As I am over Deva Foam...my stylist thinks the Deva Foam may be too moisturizing for this time of year (In Wisconsin). I could use all the help I can get from my silver curlfriends who have made this transition!
Myrna, how does your hair feel about protein? On my silver locks, what you're describing is exactly what happens to mine if I don't use protein heavy products. I swear, my hair must be completely devoid of protein, as the more I use, the stronger, more lasting, and better my curls are - that is, protein in everything, from shampoo to stylers. I keep waiting for the much cussed and discussed protein overload, but I'm beginning to believe that it's not possible with my hair!
I dont know how my hair feels about protein. Thats the truth. For the longest time I thought I had LP hair which typically does not like protein; I thought this because products tend to "sit" on my hair. Today I used Cure Care conditioner, which I have used before in warm weather, with OK success, and Pantene Gel and Mousse for curls. I also used that Jhirmack 5 in 1 spray on conditioner for silver hair, which my hair likes. I will have to check the ingredients.

What are you using??
lalsg has glycerin which will absorb moisture from the humid air and maybe it's making your hair too moisturized?

it is difficult managing two different textures when transitioning which is why i cut my hair after 9 months -- still had plenty of color left but it made it more manageable.

my hair does not like the deva products, so i really can't help you there. also, kccc has glycerin, so you've got lots of humectants there with the lalsg.

maybe just try the flax seed gel and see how it does? it is frustrating, been there.
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3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity
washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
styling: cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab, lalsg. cj aloe fix gel is my high dews/summer HG!!
sealants - spiral solutions emollience butter, jane carter nourish & shine
I have curly hair, granted 3a but nothing makes it lose curl. Plus I too have at least 2 different textures. But like you say, sometimes by the end of the day what started out nice ringlet type curls in the morning after a wash or co wash, by end of day have some fly away hair on the end of some of those curls. That's when I know I need to do a protein treatment and deep conditioner. Helps me.
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3a, med porous, low density
Poo: Have to admit I have recently become a Wen convert. Love it. I have always had problems with my hair "hanging" right, curling uniformly and destorting the perimeter line. Wen makes it hang evenly.
I am currently using SM (ya,ya, I know it builds up for some, but I need a little weight to tame the astounding poof factor), however, I also use other things. What I ALWAYS use is Sally's Colorful Neutral Protein filler. I put a few drops in whatever conditioner, and occasionally in whatever leave in. I also have it in my FSG. I discovered the need for protein the first time I did a PT using a GVP K-pak. The first time I used it, was the first time I found out I had root curl. Since then, my hair has been forming more and more spirals. Without protein, my hair just won't hold its curl. My current go to styler is Eco's curling cocktail (it's got good protein), with a tiny bit of SM's souffle gel, or whatever gel...The cocktail gives me fabulous curls, but again, I've got to have some weight to combat the dreaded poof factor. My hair is highly porous, very fine, and low density. So much so, that 2nd day hair for me is infinitely better with the 3rd being the best. I suspect it takes that long for the porous, fine strands to reach a certain saturation point. By the 3rd day, my hair actually feels and looks almost thick, as opposed to very thin.

I suspect my hair (unbeknownst to me) may be devoid of much if any protein. I remembered the other day where there was a time when I realized my hair could be curly...long ago and far away, I used to use Infusium as a leave in and got wondrous beach waves ~ many, many years before they were popular. I honestly had no idea whatsoever, that the spirally curls that I'm getting now were even a possibility until I found out about the CG way. I just thought I was "blessed" with hair that had astronomical body to make up for its low density.

I started the CG thing in Feb. Sometime in March I got and tried the generic K-pak stuff. In spite of the fact it gave me root curl for the 1st time, I'll confess I forgot about it. I became obsessed with reading this forum and after reading all of the posts dishing protein and what "overload" did, I ignored/forgot about what my hair had told me.

This Spring and now for Summer, the dew points here in TX started going through the roof, and my hair became very uncooperative. I used it again with same tremendous results. That's when I started experimenting with protein and adding the CNPF to products. My hair never gets that straw like feeling using protein products. I suspect it may be a genetic thing, as my Grandmother had and 2 of my Aunts have the exact same hair qualities. For me, it's a necessary requirement for "good" curls...the missing link.
rbb: I agree about the glycerin, almost everything has it - I try to avoid it, or find a product where it is low on the list, but it is really difficult. the Pantene gel does not...if I used the FSG by itself I would have no hold at all. But your thoughts have made me think that maybe the FSG with the Pantene gel would work well. I will try that tomorrow.

Did you find you needed to stay away from certain conditioning agents too?
hi myrna --it's been 5 yrs since i was transitioning, so it's hard to remember exactly what i used. i know i had been using the old deva, but they changed the formula right about then, and my hair hated it.
then i found curl junkie and my hair loves curl junkie. however the conditioners and stylers i was using then are no longer available, but the cj ones i was using did well in my hair, so i can't say what didn't work. and my hair still prefers curl junkie over and over again, so i rarely now try something else as they just don't work for my hair. but i do mix up the conditioners and stylers as the dew points change.
it's the old trial and error.
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3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity
washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
styling: cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab, lalsg. cj aloe fix gel is my high dews/summer HG!!
sealants - spiral solutions emollience butter, jane carter nourish & shine
I'm trying to find my footing with 2different textures while transitioning also. I've always thought gray hair was low porosity? I use protein but am scared to use too often. Myrna the jhirmack spray has a cone in it(if you're cone free). I was interested in using it until I read the ingredient list. Cones weigh my curls down
Frizzygirl: I wrote to Jhirmack about the cone and they said it was less than 1% of the total ingredients. So that Is OK by me.

I dont know if gray hair is always LP, does anyone?? not sure why it would be but it would sure explain a lot...
i style with various things depending on dew points, both in and out, morning and evening, LOL!, then i look at my hair before i shower and try to guess what it wants, LOL!
so, my leave in varies, but is always a curl junkie conditioner or deep treatment (i.e., curl rehab or deep fix) as a leave in;
then it varies greatly from there --
sometimes i just use a gel, pattern pusha or aloe fix;
sometimes i just seal with jc n&s or ss emollience;
sometimes i use a little cj cccc;
sometimes a little cj honey butta;
very occasionally cj ciab;

and that is pretty much it. there are times during the day i will see my hair seems to be losing moisture (as gray hair does) or drooping, so i will scrunch it with any of the above products coated on my hands. mostly in the summer it is one of the gels.

sorry i can't be more specific, but that is really how it is.

i don't know if gray hair is low porosity or not. my hair analysis came back normal, and it does take 3-4 hours to dry which is normal. but i have also read and heard from stylists that gray hair loses moisture more quickly. you can also read about it in tonya mckay's article, so you found a gray hair, and the article that came out right after that one.

also, try applying your products to dripping wet hair. and, try leaving your hair pretty wet, only scrunch out the dripping amount. i find that helps a lot with frizz.
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3a, some 2c & 3b, medium texture, porosity normal, low elasticity
washing/cowashing, conditioning, protein tx: curl junkie products
leave in:cj conditioners and treatments as leave in
styling: cj pattern pusha, cj honey butta leave in, cj cccc, cj ciab, lalsg. cj aloe fix gel is my high dews/summer HG!!
sealants - spiral solutions emollience butter, jane carter nourish & shine
The grays I have, especially the ones just to the right of my part, are the most porous parts of my already porous hair - it is hard to keep them moist enough to style right now The spray bottle is my friend.

One of the things I've been trying lately is, once I've scrunched the crunch out, is to lightly mist the ends of my hair with a spray gel that I mixed together in a bottle (I started out with AVG, I'm experimenting with CJPP right now) and then I pixie diffuse the ends so that they end up just a little crunchy. It kind of acts like a hairspray and I try not to scrunch that out. It seems to be the best way for me to try keeping that hold somewhat intact - my waves usually wilt by the end of the day anyway - without resorting to commercial hairspray, which my skin objects to (who knows what that's all about).

I don't use a 50:50 ratio in the spray bottle, by the way - that seems a little too concentrated for me and my spray bottle works better with lower concentrations. Maybe 3/4 - 1 tsp. (a squirt or two!) in about 1/2 c. water. I'm quite unscientific about it.

Good luck - we've been riding those just above 60 dewpoints, which I personally find to be challenging. The end of the week the dewpoints should be back in the 50s.
rbb likes this.
Smorgasbord of finer, porous 2a-3a; straight underlayer

collagen
humectants outside of optimal dews, PVP, oils/butters, anything remotely comedogenic

poos: Giovanni TTT, Suave Clarifying
condishes: VO5 VMT, KLS; IonEC
stylers: FSG, 4NSBCC, Volumax, GFPC


Mod CG since 11/2012. My waves occasionally look best when combed out, so you can pry my combs from my cold, dead hands
It is quite possible, I would say even likely the new growth is LP. My hair has certainly seemed to "loosen" with my new growth. It's a little disappointing yet, I'm working with it. I have however accepted my wave may not be the same after transitioning fully to gray.
It is quite possible, I would say even likely the new growth is LP. My hair has certainly seemed to "loosen" with my new growth. It's a little disappointing yet, I'm working with it. I have however accepted my wave may not be the same after transitioning fully to gray.
Originally Posted by chupie
That's what I'm afraid of! I've had curly hair for 42 years. I wouldn't know how to care for anything else. I'm about 9months into transitioning to gray and have many more haircuts before all the ugly hair color is cut out. It's hard to judge what I'm gonna end up with after transition
Well I'd you've had it for 42 years I think you will still have it. But it might be slightly different.
You can see my wavy tutorials here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ZNxhBHSXAW40OQ and my wavy blog is The Wavy Nation http://wavynation.wordpress.com
Update: I think I got my groove with hair products, at least for this weather we are having. I dont think it matters much what I shampoo with as long as it is sulfate free; the conditioner right now is lighter, or I apply less. I use the Jhirmack 5 in 1 for my leave in - I really like it - apply Sweet Curls FSG; and Pantene Curls gel. comb, scrunch, air dry for a half hour or so, diffuse and clip up. When its dry remove the clips. voila! great curls, and lasting pretty much all day. I dont know if this will work in higher humidity but its working now. Yes!

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