Question about being highly porous

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Oops I meant coarse texture. I have medium density. I didn't start using jojoba oil until last month and it has made my hair so much better. There's shine now!
For protein, I enjoy spiral solutions ( they only have one but I forgot the name of it), and CJ curl fx. I also tried CJ repair me a few times but left my hair dry. I should probably follow that one with a deep conditioner.
Originally Posted by marls
I'd like to try something by SS too but since they're mostly protein heavy so I suppose it'd have to be a protein treatment, wouldn't it? But when it comes to protein treatments and deep treatments I like to use what's around the house mostly.
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

Dusalocks, sorry for the delay, I don't get notifications of people responding to my post, how frustrating. Well, now that I think about it, maybe that's why I like the SS brand so much b/c of the protein. My only complaint now is that she changed the scent and I can't stand it anymore. The CEJ worked well on my hair and her protein treatment has been my favorite so far.
I wanted to thank you for this thread, I've been CG for over a year, with decent improvement but I underestimated my porosity. I figured since I stopped dying my hair that it should be normal to low porosity. So my top layer is dry and not well defined, almost 2A. I look back at baby/kid pictures and I had spirals. I'm hoping to get that back one day. I'm glad that there's others that are naturally porous. It sucks but I guess the universe wants to make its little challenging for us. I need to be patient and start getting more protein into my hair.
2a/b, thick/coarse, high porosity
My top layer gets dry too. So does my right and back side. So I add extra oils to problem sections when I deep treat. Yes, my highly porous hair likes certain proteins too but I have to play carefully because too much of it will upset my coarseness. Oh balancing acts. It's okay. . . at least I understand my hair now.

"I figured since I stopped dying my hair that it should be normal to low porosity."

Yeah me too. That is why I was shocked when I learned my hair was highly porous and thought oh dear it must be very damaged. But honestly my hair is ridiculously healthy. It does get dry with this arid weather but it's naturally dry and I can always chase the dryness away with some natural oils and rich emollients. I don't get split ends or breakage. I'm just porous. As are you. And we have nothing to be ashamed of!
3A - C, HP, ME, HD. (Coarse, High Porosity, Medium Elasticity, High Density.)

CG since Nov. 2012

Poos: SM Moisture Retention + Yucca Baobab, TJ's Tea Tree Tingle
Condish: TJ 'sTea Tree Tingle*, SM Moisture Retention* + Curl & Shine + Yucca Baobab, Yes to Blueberries
Stylers: KCKT*, SM Curl Enhancing Smoothie* + Curl & Style Milk*, KCCC*, FSG*, CJ Pattern Pusha, Curl Keeper
Sealers: Jojoba* or Grapeseed* oil

* = HG

I am confused by the porosity tests - when I ran my fingers up some hair, I thought that I felt bumpies. But then I repeated the test since going CG, and I don't think that I felt any?? Then I tried the floating hair thing. It floated unless I pressed it under water, and it then sank. But I remembered that I had coconut oil in my hair, which could explain why it floated at all.

I've always thought that my hair was porous as it would suck up dye, then fade out quickly. When it was long and somewhat mistreated, the top would dry ever so fast (absolutely understand the need to re-wet it if left too long)

My hair, despite looking quite dark, is still in the blonde family and is fine, but dense. Now that I've stopped dyeing it, I have noticed that it does actually have some shine!

I am relatively new to treating my hair more kindly, though I knew, several years ago, when I had long hair, to condition, condition, condition, but only wash occasionally.

I seem to tolerate certain silicones well, namely the one in Sebastian's Potion # 9 leave in conditioner.

I think that I need to watch just how often I condition (now that my hair is healthier, it is growing out from a pixie cut and I don't dye it, use heat etc) as it can look heavy and unhappy.

I do know that my hair hates Moroccan Oil products. Hates. Feels like Barbie hair immediately.
Growing out a pixie (last big cut July 2012)
3a? 3b? Fine, dense. Porous.
Finally sulfate free. Avoiding silicones.
Certain hair types are naturally more porous than others, also one can do a heck of a lot of damage mechanically, not simply heat or chemicals. My understanding is that part of porosity is the presence or absence of the protective fatty layer on the hair, this can be destroyed by a single hair dye session, UV damage, brushing/ combing, any shampoo soap or alkaline product like baking soda. Sulphates are certainly major culprits but not the only ones, all shampoos are designed to break down lipids.

The canopy can suffer from incidental sun damage, the UV protectants in hair products are low factor and chemical not physical so they need reapplying regularly. Naturally porous or damaged hair will suffer hygral fatigue simply from washing and, according to Komaza Care, also during long deep conditioner sessions. Solutions include wearing a hat every time you are near the sun and consider using coconut oil to reduce porosity and protect from protein loss.

I had tons of breaks all round my hairline and at the back plus progressively increased porosity towards the ends from wearing a ponytail 24/7, brushing it into that style when wet, repeatedly, twirling the ends in my fingers and suchlike. I was using 'no snag' hair elastics and a decent paddle brush with wide spaced teeth not giving myself a 'Croydon facelift' or anything high traction. Nothing like backcombing nor blow frying with a round brush either (so much brushing on vulnerable wet hair if you think about it).

Two years on I'm still chemical treating, but the really horrific porosity and patchy breaks is gone, I've cut back on the mechanical damage and stopped all shampoo (CO-wash). I know the water damage is greater when I shampoo because of how much colour I lose/ retain. The rare time I ponytail now it's super loose with a soft terry towel band or small scrunchie, I wouldn't even dare 'pineapple' without a silk/ satin pillowcase.

Tangling on one side ... where you sleep, car seatbelt?? Good article
http://www.naturallycurly.com/curlre...and-curly-hair
Chloe_s_Mom likes this.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect

Last edited by Firefox7275; 05-05-2013 at 04:11 AM.
Hey guys. So yes I have a question about porosity. I got the hair analysis last month and it said that I was highly porous, which was a shock to me at the time because I thought that meant my hair was unhealthy. I was expecting medium porosity and couldn't believe my hair was highly porous since I hadn't colored it in ages and hadn't used sulfates in years. But then afterwards I thought about it and it made sense. My hair dries very very quickly. So much so that if I don't style it right away once I get out of the shower I sometimes have to rewet it. Also my hair seems to absorb everything, I mean absolutely everything I put into it so it's very thirsty. But recently I've come to the conclusion that my hair is healthy and just naturally highly porous because I have about two inches of roots grown in that are virgin and haven't been touched by heat. No blow dryers or flat irons. These roots are the healthiest part of my hair and yet they seem to dry the fastest. I know there is disagreement over whether or not hair can be healthy (read: undamaged) and yet naturally highly porous. I recently went back to livecurlylivefree.com and it says it can't, but I'm thinking I'm the exception to the rule. Does anybody else feel this way or noticed such things about their hair?
Originally Posted by dusalocks
I have never colored my hair and its been ages ago since i used antipermanent. I rarely straight my hair , maybe twice a year. Still i have highly porous and dry hair. I was born like this! My hair looooooves moisture and protein and sucks up anything wet in seconds. And it dries very fast.

So i really know what you are talking about. My hair locks naturally damaged without any moistureproducts (conditioner, oils). So i always use conditioner and some oil right after showering my hair to get it look less porous and dry.
Hair type/properties:
3c hair, high porosity, mediumdensity, low elasticity, fine hair.

Curly hair routine/regime:
Combine the modified cg-method (low poo) and a modified tightly curly method.
-Condition and leave in: Aubrey Organics, Giovanni Barzilian keratin and argan oil
-Sealer: shea butter, Argan, olive and coconutoil
-Gel: homemade flaxseed gel, Kinky curly custard, Queen Helene Curl royal shaping creme.
Certain hair types are naturally more porous than others, also one can do a heck of a lot of damage mechanically, not simply heat or chemicals. My understanding is that part of porosity is the presence or absence of the protective fatty layer on the hair, this can be destroyed by a single hair dye session, UV damage, brushing/ combing, any shampoo soap or alkaline product like baking soda. Sulphates are certainly major culprits but not the only ones, all shampoos are designed to break down lipids.

The canopy can suffer from incidental sun damage, the UV protectants in hair products are low factor and chemical not physical so they need reapplying regularly. Naturally porous or damaged hair will suffer hygral fatigue simply from washing and, according to Komaza Care, also during long deep conditioner sessions. Solutions include wearing a hat every time you are near the sun and consider using coconut oil to reduce porosity and protect from protein loss.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Very interesting!

You're saying the sulfates in shampoos make hair more porous. It this permanent to those strands or can that actually be repaired?

It's also interesting about long deep conditioner sessions. Can you point me to those articles?

When you talk about using coconut oil to reduce porosity and protect from protein loss, do you mean using it as a sealer after all other products are applied? Or do you mean using it in general to condition the hair?

I don't know if my hair is porous or not, but I'm starting to think it is. Gray hair tends to be porous anyway.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Very interesting!

You're saying the sulfates in shampoos make hair more porous. It this permanent to those strands or can that actually be repaired?

It's also interesting about long deep conditioner sessions. Can you point me to those articles?

When you talk about using coconut oil to reduce porosity and protect from protein loss, do you mean using it as a sealer after all other products are applied? Or do you mean using it in general to condition the hair?

I don't know if my hair is porous or not, but I'm starting to think it is. Gray hair tends to be porous anyway.
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
Hair is dead so nothing can be permanently repaired. You can patch up some of the damage with certain ingredients in products - hydrolysed proteins, ceramides, 18-MEA, panthenol, cationic surfactants and fatty alcohols - but the effect is always temporary.

The Natural Haven blog and the 'curl chemist' articles here on NC are all worth reading when you have time
Porosity and Curly Hair
Komaza Care HAIR ANALYSIS Service - Rave! - Long Hair Care Forum
Mineral Oil Versus Coconut Oil: Which is better?
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Do you need to deep condition your hair? Can you over-condition hair?

More geeky science
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2...175-p00192.pdf
Chemical and Physical Behavior of Human Hair - Clarence R. Robbins - Google Books
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Thanks, I will read them when I get a chance . I wonder once all the sulfate washed hair grows out if my hair will be different...
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Thanks, I will read them when I get a chance . I wonder once all the sulfate washed hair grows out if my hair will be different...
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
Quite possibly, there is a redheaded curly over on the Long Hair Community who has/ had a dermarcation line in her hair from when she quit sulphates! I know what just 1% sulphates do to the skin so it's no stretch to imagine they are equally destructive to hair since that is dead and cannot repair itself.

I'm trying to replenish the lipids that I have lost from chemical treatments, can't find any CG friendly products that contain 18-MEA, but am using products containing ceramides, palm oil and coconut oil regularly. And *hopefully* not stripping too much more of the lipids or proteins because I conditioner-only wash and avoid UV light.

Successful CG seems to me to be science, good fortune and perseverance in equal measures!
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Thanks, I will read them when I get a chance . I wonder once all the sulfate washed hair grows out if my hair will be different...
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
Quite possibly, there is a redheaded curly over on the Long Hair Community who has/ had a dermarcation line in her hair from when she quit sulphates! I know what just 1% sulphates do to the skin so it's no stretch to imagine they are equally destructive to hair since that is dead and cannot repair itself.

I'm trying to replenish the lipids that I have lost from chemical treatments, can't find any CG friendly products that contain 18-MEA, but am using products containing ceramides, palm oil and coconut oil regularly. And *hopefully* not stripping too much more of the lipids or proteins because I conditioner-only wash and avoid UV light.

Successful CG seems to me to be science, good fortune and perseverance in equal measures!
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Once I find out my actual hair properties, I'm going to try to attack it with science I'll have to figure out exactly what I need, then what each ingredient does what, and voila! Perfect hair! (LOL) Yeah, I know, it's not that straightforward, but I can certainly make improvements.

The article above about SLS and eczema is interesting. One of my daughters has mostly mild eczema with an occasional flare. I wonder if the SLES in her shampoo aggravates it.
Firefox7275 likes this.
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
Once I find out my actual hair properties, I'm going to try to attack it with science I'll have to figure out exactly what I need, then what each ingredient does what, and voila! Perfect hair! (LOL) Yeah, I know, it's not that straightforward, but I can certainly make improvements.

The article above about SLS and eczema is interesting. One of my daughters has mostly mild eczema with an occasional flare. I wonder if the SLES in her shampoo aggravates it.
Originally Posted by CurlyGrey3
The trigger for my elbow patch of atopic eczema was shampoo bubbles running down my arm, took me years to work out why it flared at work (blamed air con) and nights out (blamed alcohol). Went to conditioner-only washing and it healed within a week, that was over two years ago!! Have 'spoken' to many others on forums and IRL who have also had great improvements in their dermatitis on quitting all sulphates, including my own mother.

Note that sulphates are in box dye and toothpaste, not just the obvious shower gel, hand wash, shampoo and dish soap. If your daughter can, I'd recommend avoiding all anionic surfactants, certainly going to products that are pH 4.5 (ideal for hair) to 5.5 (skin). Fingers crossed she gets some improvement.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Thanks!
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
OK, dudes, I have a question that I haven't found an answer for with the porosity tests. You feel your hair when it's wet, or put some strands in a glass of water - sure, fine, all clear - but WHEN? Do I take strands from before I low-poo/cowash, between wash and condition, or after I condition & cold rinse?

From how much my hair likes Deva with all its proteinliciousness, and the way it stays wet for hours, I figure I'm probably highly porous (or at least leaning that way). What do you all think?
OK, dudes, I have a question that I haven't found an answer for with the porosity tests. You feel your hair when it's wet, or put some strands in a glass of water - sure, fine, all clear - but WHEN? Do I take strands from before I low-poo/cowash, between wash and condition, or after I condition & cold rinse?

From how much my hair likes Deva with all its proteinliciousness, and the way it stays wet for hours, I figure I'm probably highly porous (or at least leaning that way). What do you all think?
Originally Posted by frankcesca
If you do the tests then on clean hair not loaded with products, I am not fully convinced they work.
THE NATURAL HAVEN: Junk Science - Hair Porosity Tests / Float or Sink
I 'diagnosed' mine by my hair's behaviour (dries fast with only rinse out conditioner, slow when loaded with products), the fact it is colour treated and loves coconut oil and protein, the really damaged stuff used to get dye build up but that is mostly cut off now.

Is Deva protein rich? I thought it was more emollients and glycerin, could be wrong tho. Which Deva products?

Does your hair like protein treatments? Or coconut oil soaks on dry hair? Do bear in mind hydrolysed protein does two jobs, penetrates the core and strengths that, patch repairs the surface acting as a film former. Both can be beneficial: just because protein works for you doesn't necessarily mean it is penetrating. Do you have damage, be that colour, UV, mechanical, heat?
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Hmmmmmm, I have no idea what Deva actually has. I just looked at the labels and saw protein this, protein that. But it could mean something totally different than just being protein. If there's one thing I know about the journey to HGs, it's that I know nothing about what ingredient lists really mean!

In terms of particular Deva products, I use Low-Poo once in a while, One Condition (hair loves it) and for a while I was all about the AnGel but I had to use so much of it to get enough hold & frizz control that I moved on. And I used the Deva spray gel til I ran out & switched to Jessicurl Gelebration.

One time in winter I tried to DC in the shower with coconut oil and my hair acted like I hadn't put anything in it. When I diffused, I got split ends. But that was on wet hair, which wasn't your question! I could try it again in dry hair, since I've still got half a pot somewhere in the back of my cabinets.
Presumably to do it in dry hair I should wash and let dry without product?

I don't think I have too much damage. I don't color my hair. Since it's summer I might have some UV damage, as I get a couple hours of sun every weekend. As for heat, up til May I was diffusing every time I washed. I had a big chop last month and haven't diffused since then.

Admittedly I haven't been methodical about this at all - I found my hair frizzed a lot after some conditiony things, but I didn't check dews or take note whether they were PTs or DCs. Just threw Curl Junkie samples into my hair and had better and worse hair days But I knew right away that CCCCL and Daily Fix were keepers!

Seems my next steps are to try a PT and to try coconut oil in dry hair, and see what happens... yeah? Thanks for your help
2c, med-coarse, dense, high-med elasticity and still working out my porosity. Living in hard-water Germany.

Still learning the HGs. Latest faves:
Washing with KC Come Clean or CJ Daily Fix
Conditioner Deva OneC, Darcy's Pumpkin Seed
Goin' Deep: CJ Curl Rehab
Loving a good prepoo with coconut oil
Styling with CJ CCCC Lite, KCCC, BRHG, and a spray gel (Fructis, JC Gelebration)

Second-third-day savers: Curl Fuel overnight and KCSS in the morning!
One time in winter I tried to DC in the shower with coconut oil and my hair acted like I hadn't put anything in it. When I diffused, I got split ends. But that was on wet hair, which wasn't your question! I could try it again in dry hair, since I've still got half a pot somewhere in the back of my cabinets.
Presumably to do it in dry hair I should wash and let dry without product?

I don't think I have too much damage. I don't color my hair. Since it's summer I might have some UV damage, as I get a couple hours of sun every weekend. As for heat, up til May I was diffusing every time I washed. I had a big chop last month and haven't diffused since then.

Admittedly I haven't been methodical about this at all - I found my hair frizzed a lot after some conditiony things, but I didn't check dews or take note whether they were PTs or DCs. Just threw Curl Junkie samples into my hair and had better and worse hair days But I knew right away that CCCCL and Daily Fix were keepers!

Seems my next steps are to try a PT and to try coconut oil in dry hair, and see what happens... yeah? Thanks for your help
Originally Posted by frankcesca
Straight up coconut oil is not a deep conditioner it is a deep treatment so largely improves hair from the inside out, conditioner has ingredients that patch or coat the surface so make hair feel nice from the outside. Coconut oil probably won't absorb on wet hair since it is water repellent, the research is a long overnight up to twenty four hours on dry hair. You may feel a difference the first time, more likely you will need multiple treatments to get the benefit.

That is quite a lot of sun, IIRC less than 200 hours UV exposure damages the protein structure and cuticle glue and, hair becomes more porous and strength is reduced substantially. Could you wear a close weave sunhat or UV Buff? You might want to focus any protein and/ or coconut oil soaks on that area, ceramides are also beneficial for UV damaged hair.

I don't think many of us are methodical initially, even with method and science there is still trial and error, it just reduces our options and stops us making so many expensive and frustrating mistakes.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
Thanks for talking me through this. I do see what you mean between a DC and a DT.

I already plop into a bike helmet twice a day; adding a hat or buff as soon as the helmet comes off seems like I'll just invite the frizz, smush and/or kink up my 2b/c canopy, and not really get a chance to show my hair to the light of day. And at that point, what's the point of styling?

I am being a grump because 1) it's close to lunchtime & I'm hungry and 2) -please read my HUGE self-effacing wink here- what you're saying seems like it's gonna take the curly fun out of my summer. the truth hurts, eh?

clearly, the best sun protection is to block the rays entirely rather than to rely on products, same for hair as for skin. I just wish it wasn't so. Still trying to find SOME product that will help a bit against the sun, that I can get my hands on here in Germany. nearly all the DE and NL webshops are out of the Jessicurl and CJ that I like, am low on, and would justify ordering some unknown products to try out.
Firefox7275 likes this.
2c, med-coarse, dense, high-med elasticity and still working out my porosity. Living in hard-water Germany.

Still learning the HGs. Latest faves:
Washing with KC Come Clean or CJ Daily Fix
Conditioner Deva OneC, Darcy's Pumpkin Seed
Goin' Deep: CJ Curl Rehab
Loving a good prepoo with coconut oil
Styling with CJ CCCC Lite, KCCC, BRHG, and a spray gel (Fructis, JC Gelebration)

Second-third-day savers: Curl Fuel overnight and KCSS in the morning!
Thanks for talking me through this. I do see what you mean between a DC and a DT.

I already plop into a bike helmet twice a day; adding a hat or buff as soon as the helmet comes off seems like I'll just invite the frizz, smush and/or kink up my 2b/c canopy, and not really get a chance to show my hair to the light of day. And at that point, what's the point of styling?

I am being a grump because 1) it's close to lunchtime & I'm hungry and 2) -please read my HUGE self-effacing wink here- what you're saying seems like it's gonna take the curly fun out of my summer. the truth hurts, eh?

clearly, the best sun protection is to block the rays entirely rather than to rely on products, same for hair as for skin. I just wish it wasn't so. Still trying to find SOME product that will help a bit against the sun, that I can get my hands on here in Germany. nearly all the DE and NL webshops are out of the Jessicurl and CJ that I like, am low on, and would justify ordering some unknown products to try out.
Originally Posted by frankcesca
I think it's easier to protect skin with products, there are high factor physical sunblocks - AFAIK you can't use titanium dioxide or zinc oxide on hair, most people don't use anywhere near enough on skin either. Of course skin is alive so can self-repair some of the damage.

There are some cute UV Buffs, have you looked at them? Even if you just used that on the hottest/ brightest days that would make a difference to your hair. Or sit/ stand/ lay/ workout in the shade, or used protective styling some days, perhaps half ups so the vulnerable canopy has some protection. It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing full sun exposure or constant protection, even a 50% reduction would be beneficial.

Long coconut oil soaks helps protect hair from *some* of the UV damage, but I don't suppose you want to walk around with greasy hair. Polyquat 59 can also be useful.
Polyquaternium-59: Sun Protection for Your Curls

HTH.
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG. Past bra strap length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut/ Elvive Volume Collagen
Treatments: Komaza Care Matani, coconut/ sweet almond/ fractionated coconut oils, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss Ultimate Volume, various Elvive
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Au Naturale styling gelee
Flour sack towel, pixie diffuse or air dry.
Experimenting with: benign neglect
I think it's easier to protect skin with products, there are high factor physical sunblocks - AFAIK you can't use titanium dioxide or zinc oxide on hair, most people don't use anywhere near enough on skin either. Of course skin is alive so can self-repair some of the damage.

There are some cute UV Buffs, have you looked at them? Even if you just used that on the hottest/ brightest days that would make a difference to your hair. Or sit/ stand/ lay/ workout in the shade, or used protective styling some days, perhaps half ups so the vulnerable canopy has some protection. It doesn't have to be all-or-nothing full sun exposure or constant protection, even a 50% reduction would be beneficial.

Long coconut oil soaks helps protect hair from *some* of the UV damage, but I don't suppose you want to walk around with greasy hair. Polyquat 59 can also be useful.
Polyquaternium-59: Sun Protection for Your Curls

HTH.
Originally Posted by Firefox7275
Hey Firefox, this definitely helps.

Looking for products with PQ-59 is fine, I will do that. There are other products that claim to protect from UV exposure as well, from blueberry extracts to shea butter to benzo-suchlikes and cinnamates - what's the word on those? I do usually use CJ CCCCL, which says the coffee in there protects a bit, as well as BRHG, which includes some cinnamates - but I am desperately on the lookout for something softer for the days I don't wanna be crunchy.

I do love half-ups, I have to work them back into my post-chop routine!

We're off to the sunniest island in Germany on the weekend so I'll work in a coconut-oil soak before we go!

One more question: How early/late in the whole process can a sun protectant be to still be effective? If I had a cowash with sun protectant ingredients, would enough of those be left in there, given I always leave more-than-a-trace of conditioner when I rinse, to have some effect? What about a coconut oil DT?

PS, some of the Buffs are definitely cute, I will look into ordering one or two!
Firefox7275 likes this.
2c, med-coarse, dense, high-med elasticity and still working out my porosity. Living in hard-water Germany.

Still learning the HGs. Latest faves:
Washing with KC Come Clean or CJ Daily Fix
Conditioner Deva OneC, Darcy's Pumpkin Seed
Goin' Deep: CJ Curl Rehab
Loving a good prepoo with coconut oil
Styling with CJ CCCC Lite, KCCC, BRHG, and a spray gel (Fructis, JC Gelebration)

Second-third-day savers: Curl Fuel overnight and KCSS in the morning!

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