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Old 07-23-2013, 08:32 AM   #41
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
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Originally Posted by frankcesca View Post
Hey Firefox, this definitely helps.

Looking for products with PQ-59 is fine, I will do that. There are other products that claim to protect from UV exposure as well, from blueberry extracts to shea butter to benzo-suchlikes and cinnamates - what's the word on those? I do usually use CJ CCCCL, which says the coffee in there protects a bit, as well as BRHG, which includes some cinnamates - but I am desperately on the lookout for something softer for the days I don't wanna be crunchy.

I do love half-ups, I have to work them back into my post-chop routine!

We're off to the sunniest island in Germany on the weekend so I'll work in a coconut-oil soak before we go!

One more question: How early/late in the whole process can a sun protectant be to still be effective? If I had a cowash with sun protectant ingredients, would enough of those be left in there, given I always leave more-than-a-trace of conditioner when I rinse, to have some effect? What about a coconut oil DT?

PS, some of the Buffs are definitely cute, I will look into ordering one or two!
No research on most plant extracts, shea has a very low SPF of about 2. IIRC the cinnamates are chemical screens and only block UVB not UVA but both damage the hair, most chemical agents are unstable and break down in UK light.
UV damage of the hair. [Coll Antropol. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI (link below will download the full text of this review)
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...49478099,d.d2k
Photoaggravation of Hair Aging
[Effects of sunscreening agents and r... [Tidsskr Nor Laegeforen. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

My other concern with most sunscreens products is using enough to get a decent level of protection, think what a thick layer you are recommended to apply to your face and body, it's not a thin moisturising/ make up/ conditioner spray layer. There are many reasons you never see an SPF on a hair protection product, just very vague hints of what they might do.

Coconut oil as a deep treatment will help reduce protein loss from UV damage because of the affinity for structural proteins, but it's not providing UV protection. For example it likely won't prevent the protective cell membrane complex being destroyed, cuticle damage nor the melanin pigment being broken down which increases porosity. Some antioxidants (is that what you mean by blueberry and coffee extracts?) will protect from free radical damage but not against the other forms of UV damage, like chemical agents they get 'used up' or broken down quickly.
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2...175-p00192.pdf
__________________
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics

Last edited by Firefox7275; 07-23-2013 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 07-24-2013, 08:36 AM   #42
 
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Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
No research on most plant extracts, shea has a very low SPF of about 2. IIRC the cinnamates are chemical screens and only block UVB not UVA but both damage the hair, most chemical agents are unstable and break down in UK light.
UV damage of the hair. [Coll Antropol. 2008] - PubMed - NCBI (link below will download the full text of this review)
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...49478099,d.d2k
Photoaggravation of Hair Aging
[Effects of sunscreening agents and r... [Tidsskr Nor Laegeforen. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI

My other concern with most sunscreens products is using enough to get a decent level of protection, think what a thick layer you are recommended to apply to your face and body, it's not a thin moisturising/ make up/ conditioner spray layer. There are many reasons you never see an SPF on a hair protection product, just very vague hints of what they might do.

Coconut oil as a deep treatment will help reduce protein loss from UV damage because of the affinity for structural proteins, but it's not providing UV protection. For example it likely won't prevent the protective cell membrane complex being destroyed, cuticle damage nor the melanin pigment being broken down which increases porosity. Some antioxidants (is that what you mean by blueberry and coffee extracts?) will protect from free radical damage but not against the other forms of UV damage, like chemical agents they get 'used up' or broken down quickly.
http://journal.scconline.org/pdf/cc2...175-p00192.pdf
Goes to show the knowledge varies on plant SPFs; the last commenter here claims that shea butter has SPF 15. (Then again, the red flags start to come up when the poster mentions water for sun protection. whaaaa?)

Meanwhile, I am pretty much parroting the blurbs on the backs of the blueberry- and coffee-extract bottles. Not a word about the what-how-why of these protective properties, just touting that the extracts (all of which do happen to contain antioxidants) provide sun protection.

NC's list of ingredients gives a few UVA absorbers, of which dibenzoyl methane appears in this spray, which I CAN GET here in Berlin! (couldn't find many/any with PQ-59.) I'll get that and a Buff or two Any advice on how not to squish curls while rocking the Buff?
__________________
2c, med-coarse, dense, high-med elasticity and still working out my porosity. Living in hard-water Germany.

Still learning the HGs. Latest faves:
Washing with KC Come Clean or CJ Daily Fix
Conditioner Deva OneC, Darcy's Pumpkin Seed
Goin' Deep: CJ Curl Rehab
Loving a good prepoo with coconut oil
Styling with CJ CCCC Lite, KCCC, BRHG, and a spray gel (Fructis, JC Gelebration)

Second-third-day savers: Curl Fuel overnight and KCSS in the morning!
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Old 08-06-2013, 10:54 AM   #43
 
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Firefox! I had a coconut-oil miracle. I did an overnight soak (no patch testing for me, I am an all-in kind of girl) a couple weeks ago and I got the most amazing 2nd- and 3rd-day hair. My canopy got two ringlets. I have NEVER had full-on spirals in my canopy (and always dreamed of them). Last week I "tried" coconut oil to seal after washing, which was a greasy frizzy mess during the day but looked amazing when I rinsed the droops out the very next day. I'm still finding my balance with the CNO - how often and how long and how to get it out.

Soooo, meanwhile I ordered a bunch of stuff from curlyemporium and, despite my best attempts to tell myself "You really won't benefit from trying Curl Rehab AND KCKT AND Jessicurl RR/CC AND all your other products all at the same time" .... I did this morning. I've got limp, frizzy waves today and I'll rinse it all out tomorrow with the KC sample shampoo I got too. I can't wait to try out the KC products, because I read so many sigs who love either KT or CC.

And I'll try a gelatin treatment at some point to see what happens, but I have to find some that doesn't come from pigs.

That's the latest. Thanks for your help!
__________________
2c, med-coarse, dense, high-med elasticity and still working out my porosity. Living in hard-water Germany.

Still learning the HGs. Latest faves:
Washing with KC Come Clean or CJ Daily Fix
Conditioner Deva OneC, Darcy's Pumpkin Seed
Goin' Deep: CJ Curl Rehab
Loving a good prepoo with coconut oil
Styling with CJ CCCC Lite, KCCC, BRHG, and a spray gel (Fructis, JC Gelebration)

Second-third-day savers: Curl Fuel overnight and KCSS in the morning!
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Old 09-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #44
 
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Where can i buy a test to check my porosity
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Hair Type: 3a-ends 3b-front 3c-back
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:10 AM   #45
 
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Frankcesca You are seeking absolutes or assurances that cannot be given. Most claims are worded very carefully, they don't claim actual UV protection in SPF terms. Some products are only for use afterwards and we all know you cannot permanently repair dead hair.

Shea has a very low SPF of 2 or 4 or suchlike, antioxidants can help reduce one aspect of UV damage in living skin but are not deemed to have an SPF. Antioxidants would have to be applied frequently anyway because hey get 'used up' or broken down, as do all chemical sunscreen agents.

I don't see how you would apply enough of any product to get really worthwhile benefits without having hair glued to your head. IMO there is no substitute for covering the hair with a close weave hat or UV Buff, sorry.
__________________
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:13 AM   #46
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesha.berry View Post
Where can i buy a test to check my porosity
You mean a hair analysis? Goosefootprints on Etsy or Komaza Care.
__________________
2a-2c, medium texture, porous/ colour treated. Three years CG, growing out mechanical and chemical damage = breakage and very high porosity. Past armpit length heading for waist.

CO-wash: Inecto coconut
Treatments: Komaza Matani, coconut oil, Hairveda Sitrinillah
Leave in: Fructis Sleek & Shine (old), Gliss ultimate volume, Inecto argan
Styler: Umberto Giannini jelly, Boots Essentials gel
Experimenting with: going back to basics
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:09 AM   #47
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesha.berry View Post
Where can i buy a test to check my porosity
You mean a hair analysis? Goosefootprints on Etsy or Komaza Care.
Yes im sorry I didnt make myself clear and are these online websites sorry if its a dumb question im still new just one year into natural after my bc I have shoulder length hair that now needs more attention then my twa thank you

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
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co-wash method

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Old 09-18-2013, 10:30 AM   #48
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nesha.berry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by nesha.berry View Post
Where can i buy a test to check my porosity
You mean a hair analysis? Goosefootprints on Etsy or Komaza Care.
Yes im sorry I didnt make myself clear and are these online websites sorry if its a dumb question im still new just one year into natural after my bc I have shoulder length hair that now needs more attention then my twa thank you

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk 2
Here is some info about the Goosefootprints one:
Pedaheh's Hair Blog: GoosefootPrints Hair Analysis with My Analysis Results
__________________
Salt & pepper wavy mix 2B/2C
Low to normal porosity, coarse, kinky, normal elasticity
Current favorites:
Low poo: Yes To Cukes Color Protection (the no sulfate one)
Conditioners: Renpure MPHIP, CJ Smoothing Lotion, AB LI, CJ Curl Rehab, CJ Argan/Olive, Darcy's Pumpkin
Style: FSG, BRHG
Pre-poo/DT: Conditioner with honey & coconut oil

iHerb discount code: PNQ285
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Old 09-19-2013, 03:39 AM   #49
 
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Posts: 26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefox7275 View Post
Frankcesca You are seeking absolutes or assurances that cannot be given. Most claims are worded very carefully, they don't claim actual UV protection in SPF terms. Some products are only for use afterwards and we all know you cannot permanently repair dead hair.

Shea has a very low SPF of 2 or 4 or suchlike, antioxidants can help reduce one aspect of UV damage in living skin but are not deemed to have an SPF. Antioxidants would have to be applied frequently anyway because hey get 'used up' or broken down, as do all chemical sunscreen agents.

I don't see how you would apply enough of any product to get really worthwhile benefits without having hair glued to your head. IMO there is no substitute for covering the hair with a close weave hat or UV Buff, sorry.
Hi Firefox, I hear you loud and clear on SPF (as well as exaggerated/unproven/misleading claims about it), which didn't come through in my last post when I brought up my doubts about each of the claims I parroted!

I am now covering and protective styling as often as possible when I'm out in the sunlight, and I understand that abstention (as it were) is the only way to avoid damage completely.

Still one question: Is there any way to preserve curls when they're sheltering under a Buff? I'm guessing there isn't.
__________________
2c, med-coarse, dense, high-med elasticity and still working out my porosity. Living in hard-water Germany.

Still learning the HGs. Latest faves:
Washing with KC Come Clean or CJ Daily Fix
Conditioner Deva OneC, Darcy's Pumpkin Seed
Goin' Deep: CJ Curl Rehab
Loving a good prepoo with coconut oil
Styling with CJ CCCC Lite, KCCC, BRHG, and a spray gel (Fructis, JC Gelebration)

Second-third-day savers: Curl Fuel overnight and KCSS in the morning!
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