I'm an old pro at this, I think...but!

So...I've done at least 7 or 8 of these treatments at home, and for whatever reason and no matter the brand, I seem to run into the SAME problem.

Coppolla, was just waaaaaaaaay to mild....I'd see softer hair post the first wash, but one week later after the second wash it's like nothing ever happened. So for me, I'm never able to give accurate results until after the 2 wash or at least two weeks have passed.

Imagine my surpise when after doing a qod max root touch up, I noticed similar results....now QOD max ha lasted a month...but but I'm ack to the beginning again with 4 inches of thick kinky roots

My problem?

My roots simply won't accept this treatment. I've adjusted my technique to apply the product to towel dried hair. I leave on for 30 minutes. Then I blow dry using a blow dryer with a comb attachment. Then I flat iron using an iron that goes up to 450 degrees and I do like 10 passes per section. Now my passes are quick..I don't drag the flat iron through my hair 10 times. I do each tiny section in rapid succession. Could that be it? It's just crazy to me, that the product seems to take just fine to the rest o fmy hair, but when it comes to the root area, not so much. Even when I got the treatment don professionally...after 3 weeks, my roots were nuts..and it can't be growth, or I'd have hair down to my behind!!

My QOD gold order should be coming in today, so I plan on doing my treatment on Wednesday. Please write with any and all advise. I feel like I've been having to do this treatment on my hair once a month for the past 6 months, and it's just too much! I want to do my roots this Wednesday, and I don't want to have to touch my hair again until the New Year.
HI HairGuru!

Why don't you try running the flat iron a bit slower and 5 times over each strand and see if you notice a big difference. I do not run the flat iron fast anymore and I do it as many time as instructed, and treatment last a lot.
So give it a try gorgeous! You will never know if you don't do it.

xoxoxox
I've been doing my own treatments for almost two years. My natural hair is 3c. I agree with AphroDiva to go very slowly over the new growth. I do that in addition to going very rapidly over the root area about 5 times.

In order for the treatment to work even better try applying the treatment then putting a plastic cap over your head (without heat). I'm thinking of trying it with heat one of these times. This should give you excellent results! BTW, my naturally curly 3c hair is BONE STRAIGHT and I LOVE IT! My fav treatment is QOD Max. QOD Gold is a much weaker treatment. Have you thought about trying Maricia Textera's treatment?
Really? I've never heard that before! Another poster on here alternates between the two and she hasn't had that experience. Oh well, it's too late anyway. it came in the mail yesterday, so I have to try my luck! I always do the plastic cap thing...same results. I will definitely go slow slow slow slow slow next time. Yes, I'd like to do a Marcia T treatment, but refuse to pay to get it done, especially since stylists don't do root treatments. Marcia T is too expensive on ebay and the only distributor I know of only mails shipments out a few times a year. I missed her last shipment, but will definately put it an order the next time around. Where do you buy Marcia T?
I have been really happy since I switched from Global Keratin to QOD Max. My hair was almost straight with just a few waves. Then is turned into a very very looose curl. I noticed a couple weeks ago ( after 6 weeks aft treatment) that my hair would turn frizzy when I air dried it in humid weather. The curl is still loose but it won't hold in humidity. I just did another QOD last week. I did my flat iron very slow but I could still smell the keratin on my hair and altho it was straight it was not glossy, but dull. The next day I had a salon flat iron it again and it had that glossy/shine ( like naturally straight hair) and no smell left at all. I have not done my rinse out yet, but I am hoping that makes a difference.

Another theory I have is that the Henna/indigo color I do every 3 weeks could be taking out the BKT faster. My hair seemed to change after the last henna touch-up.

The final theory I have is that sweat from working out may take out the roots faster---

As you can see, I don't know myself. But I will let you know how long my hair keeps this time. It starts out great for a month--so we will see if it last a full 3. I have no choice but to henna because I am like 65% grey.

Let us know how it goes for you this time.

Have you tried QOD White? I am thinking about that for next time.
Didn't you mention getting a bad batch in another thread? Maybe that's the problem. I haven't noticed that Gold is weaker--in fact, last time I used Max, I was a little disappointed in the results--maybe it's getting old or maybe I'm just spoiled by the Gold.

How many applications have you done in a row? I would do one right after the other without a break until you achieve the curl pattern you want. I did that (kind of)...then I did it again every 3-4 weeks until the curl pattern was only a 2a--too loose--so I stopped and waited for it to revert, which it never did beyond 2c/3a. I like my 2c/3a curls, so I stopped full-head applications all together, then eventually stopped the monthly root apps when I realized that the curly roots gave me much-needed volume. I just did a Gold full-head application yesterday because my hair was finally starting to show a little frizz after 9 mos. I'm going to wash it out tomorrow. I did ~10 passes at the roots and only 1-2 passes on the remainder of the length of the hair. I just wanted to tame some of the frizz, but I don't want to relax the curls much. I'm actually hoping that the Gold will prove to be weaker than Max.

I work out everyday, but I try to avoid sweating much because I think the salt in the sweat will likely destroy the BKT--after all, it contains sodium. I use two fans during my aerobic work and don't work out too strenuously so as not to work up too much of a sweat.

Maybe, like me, you'll have to do whatever it takes to take almost all of the curl out, then let it settle back down a bit. You may have very resistant hair and may have to perform repeated applications more often. I have super baby fine porous hair--the worst hair ever--but maybe not in this particular situation because it seems to accept the keratin fairly well. Also, remember that my hair initially was being highlighted, which is highly damaging, and damaged hair responds better to the keratin because there are more holes for it to settle into along the shaft. If you don't have all that damage like I did, then your hair won't accept as much of the keratin, and that may be the cause of the resistance.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix

Last edited by ~Ghost Poster~; 11-07-2010 at 11:19 PM.
Thanks Ladies,

I just think it's really strange that I only seem to have this problem with my roots! I have not done back to back applications...I usually wait 3 weeks between applications. My last root application was on October 6th. I will for sure go slow with my passes. I did get my 8 ounce sample of Gold yesterday...mmmm it smells so good! I'll probably do my hair on Sunday, as I have a work convention next week, and straight hair is just easier for these kinds of things. On another forum people talk about using a developer of some sort to help with clarifying. Any idea what that is?
Maybe I'm missing something that you've mentioned about your hair. But, under normal circumstances your roots are where your hair is the newest and, therefore, the strongest. It stands to reason that the hair there would be more resistant. I still think you should do back-to-back root applications until you see the desired relaxation. In the beginning, I had to do my hair every 3-4 weeks, too, because I would see the curl returning. After some point, it just stopped returning to its natural state, and even now, 9 months after my last full-head, it hasn't reverted.

I mean, if you follow all the suggestions and you're still having this problem, then perhaps you're getting watered-down product. Perhaps you should try coloring your hair--not a different color, but a color similar to your own--for the damage factor--then try the BKT again. It's a bit extreme, but I'm just looking for solutions by brainstorming.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
I will do my root application with my QOD gold on Thursday of this week and follow up with reviews after two weeks. I think Keratin4u's products are the real deal, so I'm sure this batch is okay. The QOD Gold is thick and white and smells like candy!

I only co wash my hair twice a week, so I'll want to do that a few times before giving my full results. I always seem to find that my curls are super loose and just the way I want them after the first shampoo..but then within 2 weeks I'm like wth happened??!

This time around I will be really careful to go over each section really slowly. If my results suck this time around I will KNOW I'm doing something wrong. Until then!
Hairguru, I just wanted to update since I washed my hair out. Someone mentioned Gold being weaker than Max--I'm not seeing it. My hair came out exactly the way I planned. In fact, my roots are a little looser than I would like, but I know that'll change over the next week or so. The rest of my hair is heavier and swingier, with great frizz reduction, but there was only slight curl relaxation, and that's the way I planned it by using less keratin and only doing 1 or 2 flat-iron passes on everything below the roots. So, what I read somewhere about the curl relaxation being controlled by the number of passes with the flat-iron seems to hold true. I glommed the keratin on pretty heavily at the roots, too.

Now, you mentioned that it smelled like candy...mine smells like banana. Is that what yours smells like? Keratin4u claims to be the only authorized distributor, and apparently there is proof of this on the QOD Brazilian site, so I'm sure you're right. I think that's who I got my Gold from.

Which shampoo/conditioner are you using? Maybe there's something in them that is destructive to the keratin? I stand by the practice of primarily cowashing and not even using a BKT-safe low-poo very often.

If I don't do my roots again in about 3 weeks, they'll probably revert back to about their natural curl pattern--which, for my hair, is normal because the rest of it has been BKT'd multiple times, while they've only been done once. I'm probably forgetting or haven't read enough, but have any chemical processes been done to the rest of your hair that have not been done to your roots? Or is all of your hair basically virgin growth? I'm fairly certain I've asked that before, I just can't remember the answer! But, if memory serves me, I think that's what has made this so perplexing.

I know...I'm like a dog with a bone about this issue! I'm just trying to help you figure it out.

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
Hi everyone
I feel as though I am having the same problem too! My roots right now are getting kinky and I am thinking of doing just the root touch up too. I haven't done just the roots yet - always do the whole head. My last treatment with QOD white really left me with straight results (actually too straight for me). I was thinking that my roots are getting curlier than before, but I'm sure its just because I have got use to my new loose hair. While my hair is still straight, my hair still gets poofy some days. Its a new thing to deal with - Poofy straight hair vs. poofy curly hair!

So, I don't really have any advice - but I think going with the slower passes over the roots is something I am going to try too. Let me know how it works out for you.
3B dark brown shoulder length
Co-wash, Living Proof No frizz, Biolage Gel, Giovanni vitapro fusion leave in
Hairguru, I just wanted to update since I washed my hair out. Someone mentioned Gold being weaker than Max--I'm not seeing it. My hair came out exactly the way I planned. In fact, my roots are a little looser than I would like, but I know that'll change over the next week or so. The rest of my hair is heavier and swingier, with great frizz reduction, but there was only slight curl relaxation, and that's the way I planned it by using less keratin and only doing 1 or 2 flat-iron passes on everything below the roots. So, what I read somewhere about the curl relaxation being controlled by the number of passes with the flat-iron seems to hold true. I glommed the keratin on pretty heavily at the roots, too.

Now, you mentioned that it smelled like candy...mine smells like banana. Is that what yours smells like? Keratin4u claims to be the only authorized distributor, and apparently there is proof of this on the QOD Brazilian site, so I'm sure you're right. I think that's who I got my Gold from.

Which shampoo/conditioner are you using? Maybe there's something in them that is destructive to the keratin? I stand by the practice of primarily cowashing and not even using a BKT-safe low-poo very often.

If I don't do my roots again in about 3 weeks, they'll probably revert back to about their natural curl pattern--which, for my hair, is normal because the rest of it has been BKT'd multiple times, while they've only been done once. I'm probably forgetting or haven't read enough, but have any chemical processes been done to the rest of your hair that have not been done to your roots? Or is all of your hair basically virgin growth? I'm fairly certain I've asked that before, I just can't remember the answer! But, if memory serves me, I think that's what has made this so perplexing.

I know...I'm like a dog with a bone about this issue! I'm just trying to help you figure it out.
Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~
Thanks so much for all of your input! I really appreciate it. I did get mine from Keratin4u and I guess it DOES smell like bananas. Candied bananas. As for my hair, it's all vigrin except for the BKT. I haven't had a relaxer in 10 years and I don't color my hair at all. While I know my hair is growing ( I am alive, after all), I'm reluctant to attribute the expereince I'm having with my roots to new growth. My hair simply doesn't grow 4 inches in a 3 weeks, so this is more than "new growth." I just think my hair isn't binding to the treatment. I just see too much frizz and kinkiness return after 3 weeks. More than I'd like to see. Anyhoo. I will really really glop on my rooots and go as slow as possible when I do my treatment on Thursday. I'm lazy, so I probably won't wash until Monday or Tuesday. I'll post then :-).
Ok, so my memory is still somewhat intact! I thought that's what makes this such a perplexing problem. Well, I won't repeat what I wrote in the other thread. It'll be interesting to see what works for you. I think I just BKT'd my hair so much, it just got tired of fighting and gave up. Today it's a solid 2b curl pattern, and I'm loving it. I almost hate to wash my hair because I don't want to wash out the BKT.

I wanted to add that when it comes to my roots, we do this rapid "chomping" motion with the flat iron because that's what the DVD that came with my Max showed. I'm not sure exactly what it does, but it's a way to get close to the scalp but keeping the iron in motion while still allowing the heat to do its thing on the roots. So you open and close the iron at the scalp/roots, and I do this until I see the smoke/steam start to diminish some, then I start sliding the iron over the hair. I do kind of a combination of chomp/slide. No pattern or specific technique--just when the smoke production has diminished on that particular section of hair.

Good luck! I'm keeping my toes and fingers crossed for you!

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix
so...I finally did my QOD Gold root treatment and washed it out today, and I'm not blown away. My curls are softer and looser, but my roots are still too kinky for taste, and frankly I'm not seeing much of a difference between this and QOD Max, so I probably won't purchase Gold again. Since this is my first wash out, I can't give a full review, but if my roots really start to kink up within another week ( which is usually what seems to happen to me), I'll have to consider that maybe my sedu revolution flat iron is the culprit? Since I still have quite a bit of Gold left, I will probably do another ( sigh) root treatment in a week. I'm just so blown away by the fact that some of you have 3c/4a curls and seem to get their hair so straight/wavy after one QOD max treatment, meanwhile my roots just WILL NOT budge! What flat iron are you ladies using for your treatments?
I use a babyliss nano 1 1/2 inch flat iron. I do the same "chomping" at the roots that ghostposter described. I saw that on one of the keratin videos too.

My hair is in a wierd state right now. Curly at the roots and the rest is still pretty straight. I really have to encourage some curl with a diffuser and it goes flat after just a little while. I have been shampooing almost everyday lately and the only difference is the back is getting curlier. Sides and front are still straight. However, I'm still not complaining - it still better than what I started out with! Next week I go for a color, so I'm actually hoping that the BKT will wear out a little more. I'm getting a cut too. I feel like I may of BKTed too much and need to get it back to more of its original curl and start over again! It is a work in progress.
3B dark brown shoulder length
Co-wash, Living Proof No frizz, Biolage Gel, Giovanni vitapro fusion leave in
so...I finally did my QOD Gold root treatment and washed it out today, and I'm not blown away. My curls are softer and looser, but my roots are still too kinky for taste, and frankly I'm not seeing much of a difference between this and QOD Max, so I probably won't purchase Gold again. Since this is my first wash out, I can't give a full review, but if my roots really start to kink up within another week ( which is usually what seems to happen to me), I'll have to consider that maybe my sedu revolution flat iron is the culprit? Since I still have quite a bit of Gold left, I will probably do another ( sigh) root treatment in a week. I'm just so blown away by the fact that some of you have 3c/4a curls and seem to get their hair so straight/wavy after one QOD max treatment, meanwhile my roots just WILL NOT budge! What flat iron are you ladies using for your treatments?
Originally Posted by Hairguru17
I have like washed my hair 3x since my last treatment and my hair is basically the same---wavy and loose. When you flat iron---does your hair go to a glossy shine or is it just straight? I can't get my own hair to that glossy straight look. Even when I crank up the heat and go slow ( maybe its my iron). When I had a hairdresser friend re flatiron the next day---my hair went from straight and a bit dull to bright glossy shine. I think that means the keratin is sealed properly. If you don't get that bright shine--maybe that is the problem and you need a different flat iron.
I def do not get that shine you ladies talk about, so my suspicion is my flat sedu revolution flat iron is not a match. This might also explain the shedding I've experienced...if the flat iron doesn't quite activate the keratin, then it can't protect my hair from the heat of the iron. I will order the babyliss pro nano from folica today and do a root treatment as soon as it comes in. I love folica because they have 30 days to return the producy. so if after washing my hair I find I still get the crappy results. I'll return it. Thanks girls, I'll keep you all posted!
I def do not get that shine you ladies talk about, so my suspicion is my flat sedu revolution flat iron is not a match. This might also explain the shedding I've experienced...if the flat iron doesn't quite activate the keratin, then it can't protect my hair from the heat of the iron. I will order the babyliss pro nano from folica today and do a root treatment as soon as it comes in. I love folica because they have 30 days to return the producy. so if after washing my hair I find I still get the crappy results. I'll return it. Thanks girls, I'll keep you all posted!
Originally Posted by Hairguru17
I'm not sure keratin truly does all that much to actually protect hair from the high heat of the iron. I never considered that your iron may not be getting hot enough--I guess I just assumed that you checked this. I simply use the iron that came with my first bottle of BKT--it was sold as a set that had everything needed for the application. To be honest, I don't know if it actually gets hot enough either. Its brand name is Liss--not sure that's even a real brand name.

I'm sure we've talked about this before, but I can't remember...do you have coarse or fine hair--coarse meaning thick individual hair strands--like horse hair. If your hair is more on the coarse side, this may be another explanation as to why you're having trouble. My hair is super baby fine, so there's not much natural keratin on the strand to begin with, so whatever chemical reaction occurs between the heat, the BKT formula, and the hair strands, my hair doesn't offer much resistance, other than a tight curl pattern. I would surmise that the coarser the hair, the more resistance it would offer the BKT. Do you think this might be your situation?

My hair starts to revert after about 3 weeks, and if I don't redo, it will curl right back up. I have to do it 3 times in a row for the curl to finally relax more permanently. It simply may take more repeat applications to relax your curl than it does mine because mine is so baby fine and fragile to begin with. In fact, I did my roots 3 weeks ago, and they need to be done again already. I'll just bet that if you didn't wait 3 weeks to do your roots again, it would work out better. Why don't you give it a try once you get your new iron. If it doesn't work with your next application alone, try it again ASAP and see what happens. Don't wait 3 weeks in between is all I'm suggesting. What have you got to lose?

Baby fine, honey & caramel hilites, 4a/3c now 2b w/DIY BKT & LOVIN' it.
Cowash-V05 Extra Body
L'oreal EP Moisture-Rinse-out
JFLVM
BRHG mix w/
KCCC/KCKT (winter)
Clean-smelling-hair freak washes EOD; dry w/bowl diffuser
Cassia+henna+grays=Gold-red hilites
~That you don't share my experiences/opinions doesn't invalidate them
I wondered if it tasted like a hot dog. ~Phoenix

Last edited by ~Ghost Poster~; 11-28-2010 at 11:24 PM.
I don't have anything to lose! I don't, however, think the issue with my iron is heat, because it goes up to 450 degrees, I think it may be whatever coating is on the plates? I don't know, but for whatever reason, I think switching the iron will do the trick. Wish me luck!!! :-)

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