The Ask Phoenix thread

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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,533
As everyone knows, our own Phoenix is a makeup artist of great skill. I always have a million questions for her, so I got her permission to start a thread in case others want a professional opinion, too.

Here's question #1: how would you apply eyeliner or e/s in the case of large but close-set eyes? Would you skip liner altogether?

#2: What is lipliner really meant to do?
Phoenix likes this.
Neat thread! Thanks, Ninj!
Here's question #1: how would you apply eyeliner or e/s in the case of large but close-set eyes? Would you skip liner altogether?
Would you like to make your eyes look smaller/more wide-set? To make them look wider-set, concentrate lighter e/s colors on the inner part of your lids, closest to the nose, and use darker colors on the outer corners. Take a Q-tip and apply a shimmery, light colored shadow to the very inner corners of your eyes to really brighten the area.

You can also offset close-set eyes by widening the space between your eyebrows. Pluck (or wax, etc) a few hairs from the front of your brows. This will "open up" the area and give the illusion of wider-set eyes.

To deemphasize large eyes (if that's what you'd like to do), line them all around with your pencil, making the line ever so slightly thicker and darker as you get to the outer corners. You can use shadow for this too. You can also line the waterline (inner rim) of your lower lashes using pencil.

#2: What is lipliner really meant to do?
It's supposed to help prevent lipstick from feathering. But if you have oily skin or plan on wearing lip gloss, a primer applied underneath your liner and lip color(s) will help even more.
ninja dog and curlypearl like this.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

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http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242

Last edited by Phoenix; 09-25-2011 at 07:11 PM.
Raises hand like Horshack. Oooh, oohh, ooh, oooh!

1. When will you be in North Dakota so you can do my make-up? What's that? You probably won't make it here as long as you live. Awwww. Bummer.

2. Where do I put my blush? I have a square face. Also any contouring tips for a square face. I attached a couple random pics. When taking pics my choices are either uncomfortable looking or faux middle aged model. I gave you one of each.

3. For my oily, hooded, eyeshadow creasing eyelids, do you think the paint style primer (example: MAC paints and paint pots) would work better or the regular style primer (urban decay primer potion, two faced shadow insurance, etc.)? I have a good supply on hand, but I thought I'd ask while you are answering questions.

Thanks in advance for your reply. Don't feel obligated to answer all my questions, because I'm sure you'll be inundated with tons of questions once people see this thread.
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ninja dog likes this.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
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I apply blush under my cheekbones and up towards my temple. I'm not sure if I'm just being nuts or what. Is there a reason I like that?!

I don't know my face shape. I always think it looks weird. My cheekbones are wider than my forehead, and I really can't tell if my forehead is wider than my jaw. I guess my hair is in my face so much that I don't know my own face shape.

I have smallish eyes, not wide or close set (someone said I was center eyed?) and usually wear glasses, which adds to the smallness.u All I've figured out is that bold liner and liner on the waterline make my eyes look even smaller. Any tips for small eyes or glasses wearers?
Kiva! Microfinance works.

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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,533
pedaheh, I love your Horshack pic.

Phoenix, I never thought of the eyebrow idea. I might try it. Also, can I wear the just the shimmer on the inside corners, if it's subtle?

Regarding RCC's question, do all face shapes fall into the categories we already have, like square, round, oval, etc.?
Do I have to apply foundation before I apply concealer? or can i use concealer by itself?
I ain't thirsty. There's plenty of fish in the sea, but I don't want all of them, can I have some standards? Or do we just have to settle, for someone's who meh and will do.
"
LOL @ Horshach

2. Where do I put my blush? I have a square face. Also any contouring tips for a square face. I attached a couple random pics. When taking pics my choices are either uncomfortable looking or faux middle aged model. I gave you one of each.
Originally Posted by pedaheh
Wow, you're so pretty! Amazing features. And killer hair.

Your face isn't exactly square IMO; it's somewhere between square and diamond shaped. Apply your blush on the apples of your cheeks (yes, every expert seems to rec this, but it works for squarish faces) and blend then apply a subtle shimmery highlight above your blush/below your eyes. This will really put the focus on the center of your face.

To contour, use a tan color 2 shades darker than your skin tone. I’m thinking of Mac Tantone or Blunt. Use an angled brush to apply the color in a triangle shape under your cheekbones, sweep the color on your jaw and entire temple area too, as in this picture: .

3. For my oily, hooded, eyeshadow creasing eyelids, do you think the paint style primer (example: MAC paints and paint pots) would work better or the regular style primer (urban decay primer potion, two faced shadow insurance, etc.)? I have a good supply on hand, but I thought I'd ask while you are answering questions.
MAC paints and paint pots crease on me. I think I returned the first Paint Pot I bought for that reason. I heard such raves about it that I decided to try again months later. UDPP was actually the first thing I tried that worked, almost unfailingly. Mark Kay Triple Action Eye Enhancer is (was?) also quite good. Too Faced also works well. I have very oily skin.
Josephine likes this.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
I apply blush under my cheekbones and up towards my temple. I'm not sure if I'm just being nuts or what. Is there a reason I like that?!
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
That's a good blush/contouring technique: the C shape! It's supposedly trendy on the runway now to apply blush in a C-shape but high on the cheekbones and on the temple. I've seen blush applied actually on the eye area.

I don't know my face shape. I always think it looks weird. My cheekbones are wider than my forehead, and I really can't tell if my forehead is wider than my jaw. I guess my hair is in my face so much that I don't know my own face shape.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
To help determine your face shape, pull back your hair and look straight into a mirror. Use a marker or even lipstick to trace a line along the edge of your face. Try to stay very still or rest your face lightly on your fist to steady yourself. Now step back. This really helped me to know my face shape. That, or you could just post a pic.

I have smallish eyes, not wide or close set (someone said I was center eyed?) and usually wear glasses, which adds to the smallness.u All I've figured out is that bold liner and liner on the waterline make my eyes look even smaller. Any tips for small eyes or glasses wearers?
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
A quick trick is to line your lower waterline with a creamy white pencil. It widens the eyes very well. NYX cream shadowstick in Milk is a good one. But it is very soft, so apply lightly.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
pedaheh, I love your Horshack pic.

Phoenix, I never thought of the eyebrow idea. I might try it. Also, can I wear the just the shimmer on the inside corners, if it's subtle?

Regarding RCC's question, do all face shapes fall into the categories we already have, like square, round, oval, etc.?
Originally Posted by ninja dog
Absolutely. It's great for brightening the eyes.

But I'm not sure what you mean about the face shapes.

Do I have to apply foundation before I apply concealer? or can i use concealer by itself?
Originally Posted by kayb
You can definitely use concealer alone. No need for foundation unless you want to wear it.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
Yay! Thanks Phoenix.
ninja dog likes this.
I ain't thirsty. There's plenty of fish in the sea, but I don't want all of them, can I have some standards? Or do we just have to settle, for someone's who meh and will do.
"
What a GREAT idea for a thread and thank you for being willing to take your time to help us.

Off to ponder a question!!

(I suspect it will be about aging eyes and eye shadow related. You know, not for me, but for a "friend".)
curlypearl and Phoenix like this.
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I apply blush under my cheekbones and up towards my temple. I'm not sure if I'm just being nuts or what. Is there a reason I like that?!
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
That's a good blush/contouring technique: the C shape! It's supposedly trendy on the runway now to apply blush in a C-shape but high on the cheekbones and on the temple. I've seen blush applied actually on the eye area.

I don't know my face shape. I always think it looks weird. My cheekbones are wider than my forehead, and I really can't tell if my forehead is wider than my jaw. I guess my hair is in my face so much that I don't know my own face shape.
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
To help determine your face shape, pull back your hair and look straight into a mirror. Use a marker or even lipstick to trace a line along the edge of your face. Try to stay very still or rest your face lightly on your fist to steady yourself. Now step back. This really helped me to know my face shape. That, or you could just post a pic.

I have smallish eyes, not wide or close set (someone said I was center eyed?) and usually wear glasses, which adds to the smallness.u All I've figured out is that bold liner and liner on the waterline make my eyes look even smaller. Any tips for small eyes or glasses wearers?
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
A quick trick is to line your lower waterline with a creamy white pencil. It widens the eyes very well. NYX cream shadowstick in Milk is a good one. But it is very soft, so apply lightly.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Shoot, I did something on point all on my own, lol. I just messed around, found that I liked it put on that way, and left it.

Here's a hair-pulled-back no makeup pic.

Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,533
RCC, do you ever darken your eyebrows, just a bit? I find that helps with "opening" the look of my eyes, which contrast with my fair brows.

Nothing dramatic, just a little MAC eyebrow mascara, brushed through for a bit of color.

P., what's your opinion? I may be wrong.
Yes, I do since they're so pale. My wax lady dyes them also, but they're long overdue for that, lol.

I have an Anastasia pencil that I like. I also used BE powder that I used with my prior shade of red.
Kiva! Microfinance works.

Med/Coarse, porous curly.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 15,533
I can't manage a pencil on my brows. Somehow I can't make the right kind of stroke.

Powder works well for me, too. Dyeing is tough because if they come out too dark, I'm stuck. I have dark brown eyebrows in my high school graduation photo; they look glued on, or grease-painted, like I'm Groucho Marx.
I apply blush under my cheekbones and up towards my temple. I'm not sure if I'm just being nuts or what. Is there a reason I like that?!
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
That's a good blush/contouring technique: the C shape! It's supposedly trendy on the runway now to apply blush in a C-shape but high on the cheekbones and on the temple. I've seen blush applied actually on the eye area.

To help determine your face shape, pull back your hair and look straight into a mirror. Use a marker or even lipstick to trace a line along the edge of your face. Try to stay very still or rest your face lightly on your fist to steady yourself. Now step back. This really helped me to know my face shape. That, or you could just post a pic.

I have smallish eyes, not wide or close set (someone said I was center eyed?) and usually wear glasses, which adds to the smallness.u All I've figured out is that bold liner and liner on the waterline make my eyes look even smaller. Any tips for small eyes or glasses wearers?
Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
A quick trick is to line your lower waterline with a creamy white pencil. It widens the eyes very well. NYX cream shadowstick in Milk is a good one. But it is very soft, so apply lightly.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Shoot, I did something on point all on my own, lol. I just messed around, found that I liked it put on that way, and left it.

Here's a hair-pulled-back no makeup pic.

Originally Posted by redcelticcurls
Thanks for the pic! You have an oval face shape, which has the most options for wearing various makeup styles. E.g., you can wear your blush in virtually any shape you like.

Re: tips for small eyes/glasses wearers, you don't seem to have small eyes to me. Do you normally wear undereye concealer? Curling your eyelashes opens up the eyes too.
RCC, do you ever darken your eyebrows, just a bit? I find that helps with "opening" the look of my eyes, which contrast with my fair brows.

Nothing dramatic, just a little MAC eyebrow mascara, brushed through for a bit of color.

P., what's your opinion? I may be wrong.
Originally Posted by ninja dog
Filling in the brows will frame the face and define the eye area. I don't know if it work for everyone to open the look of their eyes, but different things do work for different people.
No MAS.

I am the new Black.

"Hope the Mail are saving space tomorrow for Samantha Brick's reaction piece on the reactions to her piece about the reactions to her piece." ~ Tweet reposted by Rou.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Kimshi4242

http://www.tumblr.com/blog/kimshi4242
Can you recommend a good brow powder for ashy dark brown brows? I've been finding that what's offered for brunettes is too light, and what's offered for black hair is definitely too dark.
It was only a sunny smile and little it cost in the giving but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living. - F. Scott Fitzgerald

3B ■ Medium/Course ■ High Porosity
Wish I was brave enough to post pics (have to learn how first!) as I think I need help with everything. Never been good with make-up and now I'm getting on a bit I think I need to get good with it!
3b in South Australia.
LOL @ Horshach

2. Where do I put my blush? I have a square face. Also any contouring tips for a square face. I attached a couple random pics. When taking pics my choices are either uncomfortable looking or faux middle aged model. I gave you one of each.
Originally Posted by pedaheh
Wow, you're so pretty! Amazing features. And killer hair.

Your face isn't exactly square IMO; it's somewhere between square and diamond shaped. Apply your blush on the apples of your cheeks (yes, every expert seems to rec this, but it works for squarish faces) and blend then apply a subtle shimmery highlight above your blush/below your eyes. This will really put the focus on the center of your face.

To contour, use a tan color 2 shades darker than your skin tone. Im thinking of Mac Tantone or Blunt. Use an angled brush to apply the color in a triangle shape under your cheekbones, sweep the color on your jaw and entire temple area too, as in this picture: .

3. For my oily, hooded, eyeshadow creasing eyelids, do you think the paint style primer (example: MAC paints and paint pots) would work better or the regular style primer (urban decay primer potion, two faced shadow insurance, etc.)? I have a good supply on hand, but I thought I'd ask while you are answering questions.
MAC paints and paint pots crease on me. I think I returned the first Paint Pot I bought for that reason. I heard such raves about it that I decided to try again months later. UDPP was actually the first thing I tried that worked, almost unfailingly. Mark Kay Triple Action Eye Enhancer is (was?) also quite good. Too Faced also works well. I have very oily skin.
Originally Posted by Phoenix
Thank you so much for the advice and thanks for the complements. The advice to try to keep the focus on the center of my face really helps me to know visually what I'm aiming for. I didn't know diamond was a face shape. But I think you spot on in saying I'm a cross between diamond and square. Now I can put on my blush and feel confident I actually did it right. I have a paint style primer now, but next time I'll try the other style. I may even have to get some before i run out of the other.

One additional question. I put a slightly shimmery, slightly lighter concealer in my nasal labial folds to try to camouflage them. Good idea or bad plan? Youtube gurus don't have wrinkles, so they are no help at all. Oh and this question isn't for me. It is for Just a Jesus Chick's "friend". Just a Jesus chick and I have no wrinkles.

Thanks again. This was all really helpful.
http://pedaheh.blogspot.com/ (a blog to help new wavies, go to the how do I get started page)
2a (nc.com) 2bFi (Fia), very fine, thin, low/normal elasticity, porous, CG, doesn't get weighed down
Cowash: Tresemme naturals
Rinse out/leave in: Renpure Organics (red)
Curl enhancer: FSG
Gel: BRHG, Salon care aloe, Ecostyler Krystal (normal dews)
PT: ION effective care, IAgirl's gelatin PT
Low Poo: renpure (red), Ion swimmers
Can you recommend a good brow powder for ashy dark brown brows? I've been finding that what's offered for brunettes is too light, and what's offered for black hair is definitely too dark.
Originally Posted by sew and sew
Obviously not Phoenix, but I use the Maybelline brow powder in dark brown. It's the perfect shade and my eyebrows are pretty dark.
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