here's your ****ing patriot act

Yeah, he wasn't trespassing. It's like when you go to David Busters and after 11pm or something you must be over 21. They come around checking ID and if you don't have one, you are asked to leave. You are not automatically trespassing, but if you don't leave, you could be. This student had every right to leave and they detained him.

I know why the police didn't just arrest him and cart him off, because he hadn't done anything illegal. The PROVOKED a scene in hopes that he would do something illegal so that they could arrest him. It happens sometimes with the police, like when they will pull someone over for a broken tail light and then will ask to search your car so they can find something illegal. They were fishing.

But still, so many people in this world don't do what they're supposed to do or what's right...it is like we have to play damage control all of the time. He should have been compliant first, and hired a lawyer later.
It's interesting that people are picking up on the student not doing what he was supposed to do. First of all, I think he was extremely mature for a college student - stating that he wouldn't show his ID because he felt he was being proviled and told the school official he would leave. He might have later filed a complaint but the police met him before he could go home and sort through everything that was going on.

The police should be held to a higher standard than young college students. If the police hadn't done the wrong thing FIRST and just allowed the student to leave, none of this would have been a problem. If someone is loud and verbally aggressive, the police should not elevate the situation by then getting physically aggressive.
It's interesting that people are picking up on the student not doing what he was supposed to do.
It's always easier to blame the victim then look at what's wrong in our society.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
KCL, If you can not or choose not to prove you belong or are authorized to be there, you are tresspassing. He was not jsut quietly walking out the door from what I understand. If he was, then I am misunderstood and apologize. The video was chaotic and confusing to watch/listen so I may not have got the "whole", "true" story. If you have it all unbiased and complete, please do share.
No, he wasn't trespassing. He indeed did belong there because he is a UCLA student.

The fact that he didn't feel that he should be singled out to prove that is another issue.

And the fact that he was leaving (whether loudly and angrily or not) only strengthens the fact that he was not a trespassing.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
Its trespassing. He was asked to leave, and refused, and the student official had to call the cops. Its trespassing. Just because everyone is pulling the "race card" doesn't mean that he wasn't trespassing.

It was trespassing and disturbing the peace. Get over it.

For the record, all the stories say that students there are so used to needing their ID that they'll leave it next to them as they study. Gee that might explain why no one else was checked, all their stuff was in plain view, no need of being checked.

He was an ass, he committed crimes, and he paid the price. Whether or not the cops were out of line is not my argument here. It is however that he was an ass, an uncooperative ass and they did something about it.

EDIT: If he was really leaving he would have done it immediately as opposed to making a scene. Bursting your bubble of a perfect world, he wasn't exactly a model citizen, get over it.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.
I am sorry that you are not aware of or do not care about the real problem of race profiling with respect to Muslim Americans.

Fortunately for the sanctity of our country, it seems that most of us (at least here) do care about these things that infringe on human rights and effect the quality of our country as a whole.

As for being asked to leave and refusing, that doesn't appear to be the case.

No one deserves to be brutalized by the police. Fortunately, most of us are empathetic enough that it doesn't have to happen directly to us or our kind to understand this. Maybe one day you will understand this without it having to happen to you first.

But as far "getting over" police brutality and human right violations, no, I don't think I'll be doing that.

EDIT: If he was really leaving he would have done it immediately as opposed to making a scene. Bursting your bubble of a perfect world, he wasn't exactly a model citizen, get over it.
In America, the police are not allowed to beat up a citizen or tazer him or brutalize him in any way simply for "making a scene."

It's pretty frightening how casual you are with other's basic rights as US citizens or residents.

I'm starting to think that Richard Dreyfus was right, civics education in American schools is absolutely necessary because there seems to be a lot of ignorance with regard to basic principles of our democracy.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
I don't believe I commented on whether the police had the right or not.

I'm commenting on the guy being a complete ass. Whether the police were out of line or not, he should NOT have been acting like that. I don't give a flying **** who he is, he should conduct himself in a better manner than a whiney crybaby.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me ignorant, and would appreciate if the name calling did stop.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.
And by the way, citizens have every right to be asses to the police without suffering police brutality as a result.
He has every right to yell and make a scene if he wants to...especially if he felt that he was being mistreated
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady


Are you kidding me? I tell my daughter to be polite and respectful to the police, teachers, elders, etc. EVEN if you're right, you don't be an ASS. If you have something to hide, you deserve the trouble. If you have nothing to hide, then COOPERATE. That is never the time or place to make a stand, and it will get you nowhere fast.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or hump it.....Piss on it and walk away.
Location - WI
I don't believe I commented on whether the police had the right or not.

I'm commenting on the guy being a complete ass. Whether the police were out of line or not, he should NOT have been acting like that. I don't give a flying &%$@#! who he is, he should conduct himself in a better manner than a whiney crybaby.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me ignorant, and would appreciate if the name calling did stop.
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
Sorry, I didn't call you any names, but I do think there is a frightening level of ignorance about how our country is supposed to work, what rights we as citizens do have, and what police (and other government agents) should and should not do.

In other words, I think that widespread civics lessons for American citizens are absolutely essential to the integrity of our democracy because it seems that a lot of people really do not know important information about how our government was designed to work.

As for him being an ass and a whiney crybaby...that is your perception. I wholeheartedly disagree.

But even if he were an ass and a whiney crybaby, the police were still wrong for reacting as they did...and their behavior was indeed illegal.

And furthermore, such behavior from police (and the subsequent excuses made for it) are certainly more damaging to all of our freedom than whether or not some college student acted like a whiney crybaby.

Focus on the important issues here...don't get sidetracked by personal assessments of the victim.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
And by the way, citizens have every right to be asses to the police without suffering police brutality as a result.
He has every right to yell and make a scene if he wants to...especially if he felt that he was being mistreated
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady


Are you kidding me? I tell my daughter to be polite and respectful to the police, teachers, elders, etc. EVEN if you're right, you don't be an ASS. If you have something to hide, you deserve the trouble. If you have nothing to hide, then COOPERATE. That is never the time or place to make a stand, and it will get you nowhere fast.
Originally Posted by 2happy
I am 100% serious, there is no requirement that we MUST be nice and polite to police officers especially if we feel our rights are being violated.

They are here to serve us...not the other way around.

Of course, people should be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of their station in life.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
If the gentleman though he was being racially profiled why couldn't he still have produced an ID, made a stink, leave, and file a complaint.

He didn't leave before the police were there or else we wouldn't be talking about this.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
I am 100% serious, there is no requirement that we MUST be nice and polite to police officers especially if we feel our rights are being violated.

They are here to serve us...not the other way around.

Of course, people should be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of their station in life.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady

You're just a ray of sunshine aren't you?
I used to have a signature but it disappeared and I just couldn't be bothered writing another so please feel free to ingore this.
If the gentleman though he was being racially profiled why couldn't he still have produced an ID, made a stink, leave, and file a complaint.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
Maybe the other 50 times he was racially profiled this year, he did just that. Maybe this time he was angry and humiliated and hurt so he attempted to leave angrily. So what?

Whether he reacted as you think he should have or not, the reality is that the police had no right to brutalize him.

But it is interesting that some of us choose to focus on what the victim should have done better instead of on the actions of the victimizers.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
I am 100% serious, there is no requirement that we MUST be nice and polite to police officers especially if we feel our rights are being violated.

They are here to serve us...not the other way around.

Of course, people should be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of their station in life.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady

You're just a ray of sunshine aren't you?
Originally Posted by CGE
Thanks. You're pretty sweet yourself.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
Even though he was uncooperative, I think the police were out of line. There were three/four of them, and only one of him.

Cops get special license to torture it seems. And we're all supposed to put up with it, because it's like the most dangerous job in the world...but it really isn't. Statistically, it's not all that dangerous to be a cop. They just want us to think it is.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Yes, my husband lives to torture people. That's the only reason he's a cop. He hates actually helping people, saving lives, catching bank robbers (which he did a few days ago), lying on the ground in the rain trying to keep an accident victim warm till the ambulance gets there with no concern for his own safety (which he did last night). He would much rather torture innocent people. And it's not dangerous at all. Well, except for the couple times he ended up the ER.

Yes, that was sarcasm.
I don't believe I commented on whether the police had the right or not.

I'm commenting on the guy being a complete ass. Whether the police were out of line or not, he should NOT have been acting like that. I don't give a flying &%$@#! who he is, he should conduct himself in a better manner than a whiney crybaby.

Just because I disagree with you doesn't make me ignorant, and would appreciate if the name calling did stop.
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
Sorry, I didn't call you any names, but I do think there is a frightening level of ignorance about how our country is supposed to work, what rights we as citizens do have, and what police (and other government agents) should and should not do.

In other words, I think that widespread civics lessons for American citizens are absolutely essential to the integrity of our democracy because it seems that a lot of people really do not know important information about how our government was designed to work.

As for him being an ass and a whiney crybaby...that is your perception. I wholeheartedly disagree.

But even if he were an ass and a whiney crybaby, the police were still wrong for reacting as they did...and their behavior was indeed illegal.

And furthermore, such behavior from police (and the subsequent excuses made for it) are certainly more damaging to all of our freedom than whether or not some college student acted like a whiney crybaby.

Focus on the important issues here...don't get sidetracked by personal assessments of the victim.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
Thats your idea of the important issues. I'm not a police officer nor ever will be, so I don't feel its right for me to make a decision on if they were justified or not. Also I was not there and obviously from the video (which I've seen multiple times for over a week) is not exactly emmy award quality.

We agree to disagree on the whiney ass person (who I thought acted the same way this entire time, even when I merely knew he was male, no race involved).

And stop hiding behind the I didn't call you names theory. You suggested ignorance in the country after my thoughts. Thats calling me ignorant any way you slice it. That will stop.

And like I said before, I'm not focusing on the police issue, not my deal, enough of you are getting your jollies commenting on it already anyway.

On a related note, I'm still waiting for Peppy to pop in here and give her thoughts and her hubby's thoughts. I've asked my police friends but they are hard enough to get a hold of. Whoever said police don't have a dangerous job needs to move to our area and see how much water your statements hold.

EDIT: Speak of the devil, look who posted as I was typing.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.
If the gentleman though he was being racially profiled why couldn't he still have produced an ID, made a stink, leave, and file a complaint.

He didn't leave before the police were there or else we wouldn't be talking about this.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
If black people didn't want to sit in the back of the bus, why couldn't they just sit in the back of the bus, make a stink later, and then file a complaint? Unfortunately policy NEVER changes until someone calls attention to it. I didn't even know we were racially profiling college students. This kids actions brought it to our attention.

And we have no idea how far away the police were. Was this campus police? Or did the school official really called the city police? All of this is just odd to me.
I am 100% serious, there is no requirement that we MUST be nice and polite to police officers especially if we feel our rights are being violated.

They are here to serve us...not the other way around.

Of course, people should be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of their station in life.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
No, you don't have to be nice to police. You can be an ass and make the cops wonder what's wrong with you and whether their life is in danger. And then you can wonder why they don't treat you the way you think they should.
Thats your idea of the important issues
That isn't my idea. Once again, that's why civics lessons are important.

Being rude to a police officer will hardly result in the erosion of all our rights as citizens. Who cares?

People are rude to each other all the time on our jobs. That doesn't give us a right to physically assault them.

But allowing our country to become a police state where our basic rights such as freedom of speech infringed is the important issue...and we should all see that.

I am really sorry that you feel insulted by my comments that was not my intention.

Frankly, I find your comments about "get over it" , etc to be personally offensive, but more so pretty scary if this is in any way reflective of the attitudes of a significant percentage of American citizens.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
If the gentleman though he was being racially profiled why couldn't he still have produced an ID, made a stink, leave, and file a complaint.

He didn't leave before the police were there or else we wouldn't be talking about this.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
If black people didn't want to sit in the back of the bus, why couldn't they just sit in the back of the bus, make a stink later, and then file a complaint? Unfortunately policy NEVER changes until someone calls attention to it. I didn't even know we were racially profiling college students. This kids actions brought it to our attention.

And we have no idea how far away the police were. Was this campus police? Or did the school official really called the city police? All of this is just odd to me.
Originally Posted by Xyz
I believe in this case the school police are actually a division of the city's police force, or some derivation of that. So actual police officers that happen to work for the school.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.
If the gentleman though he was being racially profiled why couldn't he still have produced an ID, made a stink, leave, and file a complaint.

He didn't leave before the police were there or else we wouldn't be talking about this.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
If black people didn't want to sit in the back of the bus, why couldn't they just sit in the back of the bus, make a stink later, and then file a complaint? Unfortunately policy NEVER changes until someone calls attention to it. I didn't even know we were racially profiling college students. This kids actions brought it to our attention.

And we have no idea how far away the police were. Was this campus police? Or did the school official really called the city police? All of this is just odd to me.
Originally Posted by Xyz

You're comparing sitting in the back of the bus to a requirement to show an ID after certain hours? Nice.
I used to have a signature but it disappeared and I just couldn't be bothered writing another so please feel free to ingore this.
I am 100% serious, there is no requirement that we MUST be nice and polite to police officers especially if we feel our rights are being violated.

They are here to serve us...not the other way around.

Of course, people should be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of their station in life.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
No, you don't have to be nice to police. You can be an ass and make the cops wonder what's wrong with you and whether their life is in danger. And then you can wonder why they don't treat you the way you think they should.
Originally Posted by Peppy
And then if our laws work as they should, those police officers would lose their jobs for abusing their power.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell

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