here's your ****ing patriot act

Are the Arab students the only ones required to show a student ID after hours? If so, the comparison to sitting in the back of the bus is valid. If it is EVERY student who is required to show ID the comparison is crap.
Originally Posted by CGE
Yeah EVERY student is required. Most students leave their ID in open view so as not to be disturbed. As I said before, I wonder if that explains why the rest of the students weren't disturbed.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.
Even though he was uncooperative, I think the police were out of line. There were three/four of them, and only one of him.

Cops get special license to torture it seems. And we're all supposed to put up with it, because it's like the most dangerous job in the world...but it really isn't. Statistically, it's not all that dangerous to be a cop. They just want us to think it is.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Yes, my husband lives to torture people. That's the only reason he's a cop. He hates actually helping people, saving lives, catching bank robbers (which he did a few days ago), lying on the ground in the rain trying to keep an accident victim warm till the ambulance gets there with no concern for his own safety (which he did last night). He would much rather torture innocent people. And it's not dangerous at all. Well, except for the couple times he ended up the ER.

Yes, that was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by Peppy
I don't think the statement was a personal reflection on your husband, Peppy. Of course there are good and bad cops. The statement was a reflection on some posters on this board who seem to be giving the cops a special license to torture (by repeatedly tazer-ing a non violent person from behind) just because they are cops. I think a good cop with nothing to hide would have no problem being subject to ethics, reviews etc. just like any other professional person is, and they would more likely be extremely angry at bad cops like these because they reflect badly on all police and make it harder for the good ones to gain peoples' trust and do their jobs.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Are the Arab students the only ones required to show a student ID after hours? If so, the comparison to sitting in the back of the bus is valid. If it is EVERY student who is required to show ID the comparison is crap.
Originally Posted by CGE
This ignores the fact that an Arab student was the only one we know so far who was asked to show ID. Sure there may be a policy that all students must show ID, but if the officials are only practicing the policy on minorities there is a disconnect somewhere.

Also, according to the articles, the other students in the library, who were not minorities thought the situation was handled with excessive force and commented that the police were terrorizing the student. So why people feel the need to come forward and paint another picture is beyond me. The people THERE said what happened was not the kids fault.
Can't we all agree that tasering the guy four times - when there were 3 officers - was completely inappropriate? Was the guy an ass? Maybe. But did his behavior warrant that kind of treatment? Absolutely not. I'm not trying to be snarky here, but some of you seem to think that criticizing any cop's behavior, ever, is an idictment on all police officers. It's not.
Eres o te haces?
I am 100% serious, there is no requirement that we MUST be nice and polite to police officers especially if we feel our rights are being violated.

They are here to serve us...not the other way around.

Of course, people should be respectful and polite to everyone regardless of their station in life.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
No, you don't have to be nice to police. You can be an ass and make the cops wonder what's wrong with you and whether their life is in danger. And then you can wonder why they don't treat you the way you think they should.
Originally Posted by Peppy
And then if our laws work as they should, those police officers would lose their jobs for abusing their power.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
Making sure that they and the public are safe is their job. Not a reason to be fired.
Originally Posted by Peppy
How is taze-ing a guy who didn't have his ID making any of us safer?
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I think a good cop with nothing to hide would have no problem being subject to ethics, reviews etc. just like any other professional person is, and they would more likely be extremely angry at bad cops like these because they reflect badly on all police and make it harder for the good ones to gain peoples' trust and do their jobs.
Originally Posted by Amneris
We agree!!!!


Even though he was uncooperative, I think the police were out of line. There were three/four of them, and only one of him.

Cops get special license to torture it seems. And we're all supposed to put up with it, because it's like the most dangerous job in the world...but it really isn't. Statistically, it's not all that dangerous to be a cop. They just want us to think it is.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Yes, my husband lives to torture people. That's the only reason he's a cop. He hates actually helping people, saving lives, catching bank robbers (which he did a few days ago), lying on the ground in the rain trying to keep an accident victim warm till the ambulance gets there with no concern for his own safety (which he did last night). He would much rather torture innocent people. And it's not dangerous at all. Well, except for the couple times he ended up the ER.

Yes, that was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by Peppy
I don't think the statement was a personal reflection on your husband, Peppy. Of course there are good and bad cops. The statement was a reflection on some posters on this board who seem to be giving the cops a special license to torture (by repeatedly tazer-ing a non violent person from behind) just because they are cops. I think a good cop with nothing to hide would have no problem being subject to ethics, reviews etc. just like any other professional person is, and they would more likely be extremely angry at bad cops like these because they reflect badly on all police and make it harder for the good ones to gain peoples' trust and do their jobs.
Originally Posted by Amneris
And to continue that Amneris some posters would like to blame this whole situation on the cops. These cops could be bad or misguided or (insert your descriptor of choice). But they were brought into a situation that was already in motion and reacted. I personally think poorly. The situation was compounded by all parties involved.

We've already been through this same type of argument over the London bombings and I hope this doesn't go there again.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
How is taze-ing a guy who didn't have his ID making any of us safer?
Originally Posted by Amneris
I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances so I can't make judgement on whether they were right or wrong. I haven't been able to watch the video. I'll try again.
Even though he was uncooperative, I think the police were out of line. There were three/four of them, and only one of him.

Cops get special license to torture it seems. And we're all supposed to put up with it, because it's like the most dangerous job in the world...but it really isn't. Statistically, it's not all that dangerous to be a cop. They just want us to think it is.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Yes, my husband lives to torture people. That's the only reason he's a cop. He hates actually helping people, saving lives, catching bank robbers (which he did a few days ago), lying on the ground in the rain trying to keep an accident victim warm till the ambulance gets there with no concern for his own safety (which he did last night). He would much rather torture innocent people. And it's not dangerous at all. Well, except for the couple times he ended up the ER.

Yes, that was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by Peppy
I don't think the statement was a personal reflection on your husband, Peppy. Of course there are good and bad cops. The statement was a reflection on some posters on this board who seem to be giving the cops a special license to torture (by repeatedly tazer-ing a non violent person from behind) just because they are cops. I think a good cop with nothing to hide would have no problem being subject to ethics, reviews etc. just like any other professional person is, and they would more likely be extremely angry at bad cops like these because they reflect badly on all police and make it harder for the good ones to gain peoples' trust and do their jobs.
Originally Posted by Amneris
And to continue that Amneris some posters would like to blame this whole situation on the cops. These cops could be bad or misguided or (insert your descriptor of choice). But they were brought into a situation that was already in motion and reacted. I personally think poorly. The situation was compounded by all parties involved.

We've already been through this same type of argument over the London bombings and I hope this doesn't go there again.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
Probably the most well thought out argument in this entire thread.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.
If the gentleman though he was being racially profiled why couldn't he still have produced an ID, made a stink, leave, and file a complaint.

He didn't leave before the police were there or else we wouldn't be talking about this.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
If black people didn't want to sit in the back of the bus, why couldn't they just sit in the back of the bus, make a stink later, and then file a complaint? Unfortunately policy NEVER changes until someone calls attention to it. I didn't even know we were racially profiling college students. This kids actions brought it to our attention.

And we have no idea how far away the police were. Was this campus police? Or did the school official really called the city police? All of this is just odd to me.
Originally Posted by Xyz

You're comparing sitting in the back of the bus to a requirement to show an ID after certain hours? Nice.
Originally Posted by CGE
It's an absolute valid comparison. It's also a valid comparison to Nazi Germany where Jews were required to carry papers to show that they were "safe" or else be beat and detained.

But of course the problem isn't the showing of ID...it's the fact that this guy was very likely asked to show it only because he looked Arab and the fact that he was subsequently assaulted as a result of refusing to submit to this discrimatory practise.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
PROVE that that was the case. PROVE that he was profiled. I doubt you can. Or are you just trying to seem like some activist that cares about everyone.

Everyone in this country has rights, you have the right to free speech, bear arms, plead the fifth and many more.

You also have the right to remain silent if you commit a crime, or are we in the practice of giving minorities more rights when it comes to the law, did I miss a meeting. Where was the memo? Was this because I didn't hand in all my TPS reports?

Thats it I'm going fishing, you can tell the Bobs.
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo

Can you prove he WASN'T profiled?

Speaking of showing ID, does anyone remember the scene in Higher Learning where the campus cops were always asking the Black students for their ID at night and profiling them? They asked Ice Cube's character for his ID and he said, "No, you show me YOUR ID."

Which is valid. My parents have always told me to get ID from anyone in uniform. Whenever I've been pulled over by the police, even for a routine roadside check stop, I ask for their badge number and write it down right away. Meter readers don't come in my home without it. That's not being a whiny ass, that's self protection.

Anyone has the right not to submit to a search, etc. without valid proof like a warrant. Even at the airport, you can choose not to board a plane rather than submit to a search. "I'm not showing my ID and I'm leaving" seems like a perfectly reasonable response to me.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











.

You also have the right to remain silent if you commit a crime, or are we in the practice of giving minorities more rights when it comes to the law,
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
I think you should probably ask someone what that means because it doesn't mean what you think it does.

Here I'll tell you...it means you have the right to not incriminate yourself by being forced to answer questions.

It does not mean that you HAVE TO be silent or that your freedom of speech is limited in some way.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
Yeah it was a generalization and then a joke followed. I didn't need that explained to me. Now when are you going to stop talking down to people like you are the Queen Know-it-all?
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
I thought you had a problem with the use of insults, DJ?
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Even though he was uncooperative, I think the police were out of line. There were three/four of them, and only one of him.

Cops get special license to torture it seems. And we're all supposed to put up with it, because it's like the most dangerous job in the world...but it really isn't. Statistically, it's not all that dangerous to be a cop. They just want us to think it is.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Yes, my husband lives to torture people. That's the only reason he's a cop. He hates actually helping people, saving lives, catching bank robbers (which he did a few days ago), lying on the ground in the rain trying to keep an accident victim warm till the ambulance gets there with no concern for his own safety (which he did last night). He would much rather torture innocent people. And it's not dangerous at all. Well, except for the couple times he ended up the ER.

Yes, that was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by Peppy
I don't think the statement was a personal reflection on your husband, Peppy. Of course there are good and bad cops. The statement was a reflection on some posters on this board who seem to be giving the cops a special license to torture (by repeatedly tazer-ing a non violent person from behind) just because they are cops. I think a good cop with nothing to hide would have no problem being subject to ethics, reviews etc. just like any other professional person is, and they would more likely be extremely angry at bad cops like these because they reflect badly on all police and make it harder for the good ones to gain peoples' trust and do their jobs.
Originally Posted by Amneris
And to continue that Amneris some posters would like to blame this whole situation on the cops. These cops could be bad or misguided or (insert your descriptor of choice). But they were brought into a situation that was already in motion and reacted. I personally think poorly. The situation was compounded by all parties involved.

We've already been through this same type of argument over the London bombings and I hope this doesn't go there again.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
Because the cops (and possibly the security guards or other officials in the library) are 100% to blame.

The student has every right to refuse to show his ID and leave.

The student has every right to be "a whiny crybaby" and an "*******" if that's what he wants to do.

The police do not have the right to brutalize citizens for any reason.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
And by the way, citizens have every right to be asses to the police without suffering police brutality as a result.
He has every right to yell and make a scene if he wants to...especially if he felt that he was being mistreated
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady


Are you kidding me? I tell my daughter to be polite and respectful to the police, teachers, elders, etc. EVEN if you're right, you don't be an ASS. If you have something to hide, you deserve the trouble. If you have nothing to hide, then COOPERATE. That is never the time or place to make a stand, and it will get you nowhere fast.
Originally Posted by 2happy
Nothing wrong with that, but I hope you also tell her that if someday you are in a position of authority, whether you are a policeman/woman, a teacher, or whatever, you treat the people you SERVE with basic respect and decency and in as gentle and light handed a manner as possible to achieve cooperation and build bridges, and that you don't get power hungry or trigger happy just because you can, and you don't rule by fear. And that if people in authority are out of line, you have the right to complain and that NO ONE has the right to abuse you.
Originally Posted by Amneris
It would depend on which kind of authority figure she was. I would beg her NOT to be a police officer. And if she was, I would tell her to do her job as well as she can, but be careful and NEVER let your guard down. Now if she would become a teacher, I would hope to God she would treat the people you SERVE with basic respect and decency and in as gentle and light handed a manner as possible to achieve cooperation and build bridges, and that you don't get power hungry or trigger happy just because you can, and you don't rule by fear.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or hump it.....Piss on it and walk away.
Location - WI
.

You also have the right to remain silent if you commit a crime, or are we in the practice of giving minorities more rights when it comes to the law,
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
I think you should probably ask someone what that means because it doesn't mean what you think it does.

Here I'll tell you...it means you have the right to not incriminate yourself by being forced to answer questions.

It does not mean that you HAVE TO be silent or that your freedom of speech is limited in some way.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady
Yeah it was a generalization and then a joke followed. I didn't need that explained to me. Now when are you going to stop talking down to people like you are the Queen Know-it-all?
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
I thought you had a problem with the use of insults, DJ?
Originally Posted by Amneris
Apparently not. Me saying that citizens would benefit from civics lessons to deal with ignorance about how our country works is apparently a personal insult.

Him repeatedly calling me names is a-ok. I guess.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell

Because the cops (and possibly the security guards or other officials in the library) are 100% to blame.

The student has every right to refuse to show his ID and leave.

The student has every right to be "a whiny crybaby" and an "&%$@#!" if that's what he wants to do.

The police do not have the right to brutalize citizens for any reason.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady

And you are 100% delusional.
I used to have a signature but it disappeared and I just couldn't be bothered writing another so please feel free to ingore this.
Are the Arab students the only ones required to show a student ID after hours? If so, the comparison to sitting in the back of the bus is valid. If it is EVERY student who is required to show ID the comparison is crap.
Originally Posted by CGE
Yeah EVERY student is required. Most students leave their ID in open view so as not to be disturbed. As I said before, I wonder if that explains why the rest of the students weren't disturbed.
Originally Posted by DJ Machismo
We had 24-hour study halls at my university the month before exams, and there was a big sign saying you could be asked for student ID at any time. My white male friend did not like one of the security guards and used to harass and tease him all the time. One night, the guard came up to him and asked for ID. This guy was arguing, trying to show off in front of the rest of us saying "You know I'm a student here - why do you need my ID?" They ended up walking him to the front door and making him leave for the night, and put his name in a book of problem students and if he got three complaints, they would have reported him to the Dean, and that was it. That was fair I think. Taze-ing him would have been ridiculous even though he was being an ass.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












Because the cops (and possibly the security guards or other officials in the library) are 100% to blame.

The student has every right to refuse to show his ID and leave.

The student has every right to be "a whiny crybaby" and an "&%$@#!" if that's what he wants to do.

The police do not have the right to brutalize citizens for any reason.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady

And you are 100% delusional.
Originally Posted by CGE
How is she delusional, CGE? Are you saying that the police do have the right to brutalize citizens?
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Even though he was uncooperative, I think the police were out of line. There were three/four of them, and only one of him.

Cops get special license to torture it seems. And we're all supposed to put up with it, because it's like the most dangerous job in the world...but it really isn't. Statistically, it's not all that dangerous to be a cop. They just want us to think it is.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

Yes, my husband lives to torture people. That's the only reason he's a cop. He hates actually helping people, saving lives, catching bank robbers (which he did a few days ago), lying on the ground in the rain trying to keep an accident victim warm till the ambulance gets there with no concern for his own safety (which he did last night). He would much rather torture innocent people. And it's not dangerous at all. Well, except for the couple times he ended up the ER.

Yes, that was sarcasm.
Originally Posted by Peppy
I don't think the statement was a personal reflection on your husband, Peppy. Of course there are good and bad cops. The statement was a reflection on some posters on this board who seem to be giving the cops a special license to torture (by repeatedly tazer-ing a non violent person from behind) just because they are cops. I think a good cop with nothing to hide would have no problem being subject to ethics, reviews etc. just like any other professional person is, and they would more likely be extremely angry at bad cops like these because they reflect badly on all police and make it harder for the good ones to gain peoples' trust and do their jobs.
Originally Posted by Amneris
And to continue that Amneris some posters would like to blame this whole situation on the cops. These cops could be bad or misguided or (insert your descriptor of choice). But they were brought into a situation that was already in motion and reacted. I personally think poorly. The situation was compounded by all parties involved.

We've already been through this same type of argument over the London bombings and I hope this doesn't go there again.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
GB, it sounds like in THIS particular situation, according to the witnesses, THESE cops acted inappropriately by escalating a situation that did not even have to be a situation. That doesn't mean all cops are always to blame, but in this situation, these cops were.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












Because the cops (and possibly the security guards or other officials in the library) are 100% to blame.

The student has every right to refuse to show his ID and leave.

The student has every right to be "a whiny crybaby" and an "&%$@#!" if that's what he wants to do.

The police do not have the right to brutalize citizens for any reason.
Originally Posted by KatieCoolLady

And you are 100% delusional.
Originally Posted by CGE
Gee, you sure do like to lash out at strangers on the internet. I suggest you get some help for that and try to be a more positive person in the future, like me.

Instead of projecting your personal unhappiness onto strangers, try and deal with it. It makes for a more satisfying life.

I do feel for you though.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell
Holy geez, that many responses already, this is in response to Amneris and the "Prove it Wasn't" post.

Yes it would be. Except why did he have to make a huge scene? Why bother yelling it in long drawn out words? Doesn't exactly reek of compliance, more like an alibi.

As for profiling, we can't prove either way, the video starts after the incident started with the police there already.

I can see perfectly well how most of the students would have out an ID on the desk, being ignored by the student officer because he can see the IDs from a distance. The guy obviously didn't have his ID out. Its not a case of blatant profiling in my eyes.

Its merely a case of asking a student to leave, who didn't, acted like a whiney ass while "saying" he would leave (I personally saw no signs of him leaving, and I admit I could barely see him anyway).

Had he complied, we wouldn't be here discussing this as the police would not have gotten involved in the first place, the police were there because he didn't comply.

Even after tazering (which I wasn't there so can't comment on whether it was necessary or not, though being a college student not too long ago, can quickly tell you not a lot of students like or appreciate cops and in my opinion have a negative bias towards them), he didn't seem to be too compliant and more focused on yelling and making a scene. That many police officers are more than capable of handling a student. He WAS warned to comply or he'd get tazed again, was it necessary, probably not, but its not like they just up and did it for fun it seems, they did warn him because he was not cooperating.

I don't know if he had the ability to get up or not, even after being tazed people will react differently.

I do get upset that even if the officers abused their power, not many others are saying that had the student cooperated, he would not have given them a chance to decide to abuse it or not. Seems like profiling against cops there as well. They didn't have to come, but were called in because of uncooperative student. The situation could have ended at the ID check, but it didn't.
Stephen Fry on "respect" and being "offended".
Calgon take me away.

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