This is the kind of stuff some people don't understand - Page 3

Lucille · 12-12-2006, 07:25 PM

Jesus H. Christ.

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 07:30 PM

This thread makes me sad. And angry. And in general makes my eyes do this:

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 07:35 PM

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 07:48 PM

What is that supposed to mean slinky? I'm sorry, but you've said some pretty outrageous things in this thread. I really don't think I'm the only one feeling shocked, angry, and saddened by the fact that you seem to believe we should blame rappers and basketball players for racist beliefs some people hold.

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 07:52 PM

...

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 07:53 PM

If a person doesn't grow up around black people, and they go to a college where most of the black people there are on the basketball team...I think that the music and movies contribute to the stereotyping.

Do you think that the nasty ghetto music and ghetto movies have zero influence on ignorant, white college kids? When they grew up listening to it in white neighborhoods? When that is their only exposure to blacks?

NetG · 12-12-2006, 07:55 PM

Here's the thing.

To me, what slinky's saying makes some sense. Everyone likes to talk about institutional racism. Part of that is people who have been discriminated against in the past, who are affected by the long history of discrimination. This includes history books failing to mention all the amazing blacks in our past. There shouldn't *have* to be a black history month, because history classes shouldn't just be white history, and black history taught as its own subject would take more than one month a year.

There are plenty of white idiots out there in the media. However, there are many more positive white role models out there. A lot of that is because of the same effect as the history books. People think that the "white folk" won't care or want to see them (in some cases, I'm sure true-as there's definitely a lot of racism out there still!), in many cases due to the history of racism, there are simply fewer black individuals with opportunities to be as prominent. Unfortunately, with our society and our history, most of the more commonly known blacks ARE those who make derogatory statements in their music, behave poorly (and I commend the NBA in attempting to clean up their image, even if their answer is not the right one on how to do it), and the media just doesn't discuss the commendable, respectable, and admirable prominent blacks. I think a lot of it is instutional racism, and I think it's a shame that a school funded publication would have been able to print such a horrible article.

I think the students are idiots, but there's a lot more to it than just the involved students being morons. I think that's what slinky was trying to get at, or at least that's how I interpreted it.

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

If a person doesn't grow up around black people, and they go to a college where most of the black people there are on the basketball team...I think that the music and movies contribute to the stereotyping.

Do you think that the nasty ghetto music and ghetto movies have zero influence on ignorant, white college kids? When they grew up listening to it in white neighborhoods? When that is their only exposure to blacks?

I'm sure that it does have an effect... That isn't my point; my point is that it isn't the rappers/media/NBA or anyone else's fault for someone's ignorance. Once you get to college and you're an adult, its time to realize, "hey, I don't know about all these things, and I am going to take responsibility for my ignorance and make a point to learn what I don't know or understand." Blaming others for what you (general you) don't know is absurd to me once you're an adult. That's all I was saying.

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 07:58 PM

I think people can form their opinions based on superficial, idiotic things. I don't think that you have to have some well-thought out, deep seated reason for thinking things like that...not always.

DarkAngel · 12-12-2006, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

If a person doesn't grow up around black people, and they go to a college where most of the black people there are on the basketball team...I think that the music and movies contribute to the stereotyping.

Do you think that the nasty ghetto music and ghetto movies have zero influence on ignorant, white college kids? When they grew up listening to it in white neighborhoods? When that is their only exposure to blacks?

What is wrong with these kids that ghetto music and movies and athletes are the only exposure they have to black people? What the hell is wrong with them that they don't see that there are black politicians, businessmen, tv anchorman and so on. I can list near every career and there is a black person in it. What you are describing is willful ignorance. There is no excuse for it nor is there any excuse for you defending it.

Good God. This makes me sad. I really wish the people who thought like you would just say it to my face so I could write them off. I guess I'm just a "special" black and "not like the others."

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

If a person doesn't grow up around black people, and they go to a college where most of the black people there are on the basketball team...I think that the music and movies contribute to the stereotyping.

Do you think that the nasty ghetto music and ghetto movies have zero influence on ignorant, white college kids? When they grew up listening to it in white neighborhoods? When that is their only exposure to blacks?

What is wrong with these kids that ghetto music and movies and athletes are the only exposure they have to black people? What the hell is wrong with them that they don't see that there are black politicians, businessmen, tv anchorman and so on. I can list near every career and there is a black person in it. What you are describing is willful ignorance. There is no excuse for it nor is there any excuse for you defending it.

Good God. This makes me sad. I really wish the people who thought like you would just say it to my face so I could write them off. I guess I'm just a "special" black and "not like the others."

Well, it is either that, or they were purposely trying to offend and be inflammatory.

Sidebar:

Okay, on one hand, we say blacks are oppressed and have few opportunities...even if they work hard. Then, we say that they are politicians, businessmen, etc. Both true.

I do think that people are that dumb. How does that make me a racist, if I think white people my age are that easily influenced?

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

I think people can form their opinions based on superficial, idiotic things. I don't think that you have to have some well-thought out, deep seated reason for thinking things like that...not always.

Just because people do it doesn't make it OKAY though. Do you not see what I'm saying? I'm sure some kids grow up like that and think like that because that's all they've been exposed to, their parents were racist, etc. That sucks. It really does, but it surely to GOD is not someone else's fault. Blaming the NBA or the rap industry is just wrong in so many ways. At some point it is time to take responsibility AND THINK ABOUT things. I'm not saying you in general, slinky, but based on the examples you give... you say some people don't have this thought out reason for their beliefs. Well maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't just go around spouting ignorance and never think about it. And if they so choose to do so, let us not blame it on others. This makes me very sad.

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rheanna83

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

I think people can form their opinions based on superficial, idiotic things. I don't think that you have to have some well-thought out, deep seated reason for thinking things like that...not always.

Just because people do it doesn't make it OKAY though. Do you not see what I'm saying? I'm sure some kids grow up like that and think like that because that's all they've been exposed to, their parents were racist, etc. That sucks. It really does, but it surely to GOD is not someone else's fault. Blaming the NBA or the rap industry is just wrong in so many ways. At some point it is time to take responsibility AND THINK ABOUT things. I'm not saying you in general, slinky, but based on the examples you give... you say some people don't have this thought out reason for their beliefs. Well maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't just go around spouting ignorance and never think about it. And if they so choose to do so, let us not blame it on others. This makes me very sad.

WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS OK? You're free associating in your mind, because I never said anything like that here.

I never said that people SHOULDN'T think about things, I'm just saying that a lot of people don't.

It is kinda like gossip and rumors. People are dumb sometimes.

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rheanna83

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

I think people can form their opinions based on superficial, idiotic things. I don't think that you have to have some well-thought out, deep seated reason for thinking things like that...not always.

Just because people do it doesn't make it OKAY though. Do you not see what I'm saying? I'm sure some kids grow up like that and think like that because that's all they've been exposed to, their parents were racist, etc. That sucks. It really does, but it surely to GOD is not someone else's fault. Blaming the NBA or the rap industry is just wrong in so many ways. At some point it is time to take responsibility AND THINK ABOUT things. I'm not saying you in general, slinky, but based on the examples you give... you say some people don't have this thought out reason for their beliefs. Well maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't just go around spouting ignorance and never think about it. And if they so choose to do so, let us not blame it on others. This makes me very sad.

WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS OK? You're free associating in your mind, because I never said anything like that here.

I never said that people SHOULDN'T think about things, I'm just saying that a lot of people don't.

Slinky, you said this back at the beginning of this thread. This gave me the idea (if I'm wrong, please correct me

) that you think it IS okay to blame others for racist beliefs. Instead of blaming the students, you seem to think we should:

Quote:

Blame the record companies who promote artists who perpetuate these stereotypes...and the production companies that put out these "ghetto" movies. All the kids in the rich white suburbs who grew up listening to the cool songs about the pimps and the hos from out the ghetto...who listened to it blasting from the inside of their daddy's BMW convertible, who've never known a black person in their lives...the ones go to college and see the only black kids there are on the b-ball team...

Unless I'm totally misreading, you did say it was okay. And you are totally missing my point. You seem to think (you said) we should blame certain groups of Black people for racist beliefs held by white people. And you act as though no one should be shocked at that statement?! I am almost starting to hope you're joking, although that's sad if you'd joke about this. No one is saying that those things don't affect someone's viewpoint, but my entire point is that it isn't okay to let it affect your viewpoint and go on your jolly way harboring racist thoughts and stereotypes because you've never bothered to learn otherwise, and then blame the victims of the racism for YOUR racist thoughts. That way of thinking defies logic to me, sorry.

Again, all "you" and "your" are not directed at you in specific, just at the example you're giving. I am *hoping* that you don't really feel like that, but maybe that you're playing devil's advocate a bit here or something...

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 08:11 PM

Rheanna, I'm waiting. You're making a stink here.

Where did I say that this stuff was okay, and that people SHOULDN'T think a little harder about these issues?

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

Rheanna, I'm waiting. You're making a stink here.

Where did I say that this stuff was okay, and that people SHOULDN'T think a little harder about these issues?

Slinky - I hardly think I'm making a stink... I think you did that with your comment. If I misread your comment (as well as many, many others...) then tell me what you meant. Otherwise, I'm done with this conversation. It's emotionally draining to me to argue with the way you're presenting this.

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rheanna83

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rheanna83

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

I think people can form their opinions based on superficial, idiotic things. I don't think that you have to have some well-thought out, deep seated reason for thinking things like that...not always.

Just because people do it doesn't make it OKAY though. Do you not see what I'm saying? I'm sure some kids grow up like that and think like that because that's all they've been exposed to, their parents were racist, etc. That sucks. It really does, but it surely to GOD is not someone else's fault. Blaming the NBA or the rap industry is just wrong in so many ways. At some point it is time to take responsibility AND THINK ABOUT things. I'm not saying you in general, slinky, but based on the examples you give... you say some people don't have this thought out reason for their beliefs. Well maybe they should. Maybe they shouldn't just go around spouting ignorance and never think about it. And if they so choose to do so, let us not blame it on others. This makes me very sad.

WHEN DID I SAY IT WAS OK? You're free associating in your mind, because I never said anything like that here.

I never said that people SHOULDN'T think about things, I'm just saying that a lot of people don't.

Slinky, you said this back at the beginning of this thread. This gave me the idea (if I'm wrong, please correct me

) that you think it IS okay to blame others for racist beliefs. Instead of blaming the students, you seem to think we should:

Quote:

Blame the record companies who promote artists who perpetuate these stereotypes...and the production companies that put out these "ghetto" movies. All the kids in the rich white suburbs who grew up listening to the cool songs about the pimps and the hos from out the ghetto...who listened to it blasting from the inside of their daddy's BMW convertible, who've never known a black person in their lives...the ones go to college and see the only black kids there are on the b-ball team...

Unless I'm totally misreading, you did say it was okay. And you are totally missing my point. You seem to think (you said) we should blame certain groups of Black people for racist beliefs held by white people. And you act as though no one should be shocked at that statement?! I am almost starting to hope you're joking, although that's sad if you'd joke about this. No one is saying that those things don't affect someone's viewpoint, but my entire point is that it isn't okay to let it affect your viewpoint and go on your jolly way harboring racist thoughts and stereotypes because you've never bothered to learn otherwise, and then blame the victims of the racism for YOUR racist thoughts. That way of thinking defies logic to me, sorry.

Again, all "you" and "your" are not directed at you in specific, just at the example you're giving. I am *hoping* that you don't really feel like that, but maybe that you're playing devil's advocate a bit here or something...

I corrected myself for using the word "blame"...read the thread. I changed my sentiments to contribute in other posts.

I didn't blame black people, I blamed the record companies and the movie producers...they're most likely not black. If someone came to me with that crap, I know that producing it and promoting it would be unethical...and IRRESPONSIBLE.

The bottom line is, our society isn't far enough along yet to not be affected by things like that.

Rheanna · 12-12-2006, 08:16 PM

Okay then I suppose. Apparently I've missed something, I'll take your word for that. If you feel differently then how I read that post, then great. Although I still think we should blame the ones WITH the racist ideas, not someone else. And I know you said 'blame' was not the best word, but I'm still not totally sure what you're getting at. Is it how NetG explained it?

slinky1 · 12-12-2006, 08:21 PM

There are so many idiotic people out there. THEY SHOULD do something about their ignorance, but most likely, a lot of them won't. It is human nature. We'll have to wait until people in positions of power help change society. When the idiots see the changes, they'll change.

If you are an educated person in a position of power (ie a record producer), I think that you have to take more responsibility for what gets put out to market. These are people who know better. People who know better need to do better before anyone else.

CGE · 12-12-2006, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slinky1

There are so many idiotic people out there.

Ain't that the truth.