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Nej 11-16-2010 12:33 PM

The Poop is hitting the Fan!! (Long)
 
OK this is going to be long. This is partly a vent, partly a request for advice ... Where to start

Let's just say the poop has hit the fan for my Ex, let's call him "Dave".

Dave and I dated for a year and broke up this past April. He never really had his life together (no job, no education, pot-head) but he was a good boyfriend, and although I was never in love I cared very much for him. Since we broke up we have remained close friends. In fact he considers me one of his only confidants and his best friend in many ways. We have slept together on and off since we broke up (it was amazing, so sue me).

He has always been on the cusp of having a professional hockey career, and has forgone a traditional income in order to train and be available for any opportunity that has come his way.

A few months ago he started very casually seeing this girl, let's call her Elaine.

Now it might be important to mention that it takes a lot for Dave to be exclusive and call someone his girlfriend. He needs to be head over heels with a girl and although I know this about him he hasn't always been clear with girls about this in the past. In HIS mind he is just casually seeing someone but in the girls minds they are exclusive.

When we dated he WAS heads over heels for me and treated me completely different than he was with Elaine and with other girls he's seen.

When Dave left to go to a hockey camp he broke up with Elaine because he was getting the feeling that she was a few screws short of a tool box. She gave him her keys after two weeks of dating and was becoming very clingy and obsessive.

While Dave was away at his camp she hacked into his facebook and blocked/deleted about a dozen girls he had been talking to and sent them messages saying things like "we are in love and together so back off oh and WE ARE GOING TO HAVE A BABY"

These messages were then relayed to Dave who then approached Elaine asking her what this baby nonsense was about. She then told him that she was 6 weeks late with her period and that she was pregnant.

My first instinct was that she was lying and maniupulating him as a ploy to get him to be with her again.

Well last night he went over to her house because she said they needed to talk and seh presented him with an ultrasound.

He is coming to me for advcie and so far I am the only person that he has told.

My advice to him to to be VERY clear to her that he is NOT going to get back together with her and to protect himself by talking to a lawyer and hammer out any issues of custody/child support BEFORE the baby is born and the poop really hits the fan. My fear is that this girl is crazy and if she is hurt enough will set out to ruin his life.

None of her talks with his regarding this issue have had anything to do with what's best for the baby or her but have always revolved around her getting back together with him.

I have made it clear to him that he needs to accept responsibiltiy and man up and that they are both acting selfishly and immaturely. I also think he needs to go with her to her next doctors appointment because there's still a chance she is lying about the whole thing.

I KNOW he is no way ready to care for a child and I'm not sure I can be a supportive friend if he's going to end up being a dead beat dad unless she makes it clear she wants to do this on her own and wants him out of the picture.

His life is basically over as he is going to have to give up any hope of a hockey career and start working if he has to provide child support. He is also a top contender in an extreme sport that sends him all over the world and is going to have to drop out.

I can't help but be angry at this girl .... I have known some girls in the past who have purposely gotten pregnant to keep a man ... and I feel VERY bad for this poor child. She told him she was on birthcontrol (non excusing him, he SHOULD have been responsible for himself and used a fricken condom, ESPECIALLY since he was not in an exlcusive relationship).

I'm just confused right now over my friendship with Dave ... I can't support him if he is going to do the wrong thing and not be there for this child, but at the same time I feel very badly for him as I feel he's getting screwed over. I'm confused and not sure how to be there for him. I know it's non of my business but he's looking for me for advice and support. So far he hasn't told his family yet.

pprMACHEheart 11-16-2010 12:41 PM

Whoa, this is really one tangled web that was woven (try saying that five times fast, lol).

Anyway, I wouldn't blame you for not being okay with being friends with him if he became a dead beat dad. I admire you for being his friend and advising him the best way you can, I think you are correct in telling him to get things straightened out long before the baby comes. She does so a bit . . looney, so I hope he knows that a whole lot of crazy is going to be coming his way in regards to her and his child.

Does he know for sure it's his?

RedCatWaves 11-16-2010 12:44 PM

This is his mess, not yours. He needs to be a man, get a job, and support his child. There're really no choices for him, unless she chooses to have an abortion. The "getting back together" thing is between him and her, not you.

And, I would bet money that you don't know everything about their relationship. In my experience, most "crazy women" are the result of a propaganda campaign from the man, and they aren't nearly as crazy as the men who've dated them would lead you to believe.

Nej 11-16-2010 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pprMACHEheart (Post 1524916)
Whoa, this is really one tangled web that was woven (try saying that five times fast, lol).

Anyway, I wouldn't blame you for not being okay with being friends with him if he became a dead beat dad. I admire you for being his friend and advising him the best way you can, I think you are correct in telling him to get things straightened out long before the baby comes. She does so a bit . . looney, so I hope he knows that a whole lot of crazy is going to be coming his way in regards to her and his child.

Does he know for sure it's his?

I know what a mess eh??!?! He just smashed his car and now this!

I told him that he needs proof of paternity when the baby is born but he is so worried about being cold and heartless that he's not looking out for himself.

He said after he left her house last night she was on the floor crying begging him to take her back so that they could be together ... Not ONE word about the poor baby and what would be best for it. My advice was that in the end it's kinder to be CLEAR that he will never get back with her as they will just break up eventually and she needs to make decisions for herself and her baby in reality and not with ehr head in the clouds.

Her family is very catholic and I have the feeling that they are going to wreck his life is he doesn't "do the right thing" by marrying her. He may think it's cold and heartless to go to a lawyer and demand paternity but in the end having the details sorted out before the baby comes will prevent it from being used a a pawn and for manipulation.

He's only known this girl for 2 months and according to him it was very casual. I want to just tell him he's an complete idiot but I'm trying to be supportive.

Nej 11-16-2010 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves (Post 1524919)
This is his mess, not yours. He needs to be a man, get a job, and support his child. There're really no choices for him, unless she chooses to have an abortion. The "getting back together" thing is between him and her, not you.

And, I would bet money that you don't know everything about their relationship. In my experience, most "crazy women" are the result of a propaganda campaign from the man, and they aren't nearly as crazy as the men who've dated them would lead you to believe.

Oh trust me I know. I have lectured him that he brings the 'crazy' on himself because he totally leads girls on and gives them the wrong impression.

I know it's none of my business but he's also looking to me for advice and I want to give him the most unbiased advice possible. If he doesn't man up and support this child he needs to know that he will also be losing my friendship.

eche428 11-16-2010 12:50 PM

He should definitely get a paternity test. If it's his then I agree he needs to man up.

jenny curl 11-16-2010 12:54 PM

I wouldn't make any hasty decisions or advice until he is FOR SURE that this girl is pregnant and that it is HIS baby. After that, my only advice to him would be to talk with that crazy girl (sorry, but she does seem crazy) and try to figure out a game plan. Whether she decides to keep it, get an abortion or put it up for adoption, these are all important decisions that need to be made right away. I do feel sorry for him, even though he did not protect himself ( BIG NO ) because he did get himself screwed and now must deal with the consequences. Try, if possible, not to let his situation bring YOU down, I think that's the most important part.

kat180 11-16-2010 12:54 PM

I feel for her.

Sorry.

Im not condoning certain behaviour (if, like RCW said, all of it is true). But, she is probably freaking out. She is pregnant by a guy she has known 2 months, who even by your accounts, is a bit of an unemployed dead-beat. Her life has taken a complete u-turn, she may not want, be ready, or able to care for a baby. And it seems like she has little to no support. I don't blame her being desperate to get back together if she feels she needs someone in this with her. It may not be the best thing, but it sure is understandable.

He does need to be clear on his feelings for her. He needs to get a paternity test. And he also needs to man up, get a job, and start acting like a father. From now. If abortion is out, this woman is going to need support from him, whether he wants to be a couple or not.

She doesn't need to just make decisions for herself and her baby. They need to make decisions for their child.

The New Black 11-16-2010 12:55 PM

^^^ Agreed.

And focus on this part:
Quote:

I know it's non of my business but he's looking for me for advice and support. So far he hasn't told his family yet.

Cheetara 11-16-2010 12:56 PM

The pig spore has hit the wind spinner.

Has he seen any kind of official pregnancy test? Can he take her to a lab to get the HCG measured in her blood? That can be a guide to how far along in her alleged pregnancy she is.

Nej 11-16-2010 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kat180 (Post 1524929)
I feel for her.

Sorry.

Im not condoning certain behaviour (if, like RCW said, all of it is true). But, she is probably freaking out. She is pregnant by a guy she has known 2 months, who even by your accounts, is a bit of an unemployed dead-beat. Her life has taken a complete u-turn, she may not want, be ready, or able to care for a baby. And it seems like she has little to no support. I don't blame her being desperate to get back together if she feels she needs someone in this with her. It may not be the best thing, but it sure is understandable.

He does need to be clear on his feelings for her. He needs to get a paternity test. And he also needs to man up, get a job, and start acting like a father. From now. If abortion is out, this woman is going to need support from him, whether he wants to be a couple or not.

She doesn't need to just make decisions for herself and her baby. They need to make decisions for their child.

I feel bad for her too :( This whole thing is such a mess and you know what? He's a total screw up ... I've always reassured him that he's not but when you bring another life into the equation it's a whole nother issue. He's made a mess of everthing and is completley selfish and immature in many of his decisions. This is first real consequence and he needs to get his head out of the clouds and be a man.

I posted this also to help sort out my own feelings on it .... your responses and mine are definitely helping me sort things out in my own head.

kat180 11-16-2010 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny curl (Post 1524928)
I wouldn't make any hasty decisions or advice until he is FOR SURE that this girl is pregnant and that it is HIS baby. After that, my only advice to him would be to talk with that crazy girl (sorry, but she does seem crazy) and try to figure out a game plan. Whether she decides to keep it, get an abortion or put it up for adoption, these are all important decisions that need to be made right away. I do feel sorry for him, even though he did not protect himself ( BIG NO ) because he did get himself screwed and now must deal with the consequences. Try, if possible, not to let his situation bring YOU down, I think that's the most important part.

Im sorry I dont quite understand your post.

How has he got himself screwed? How has he been screwed over? He is as responsible as she is for the position they are both are in. Poor him. He had unprotected sex and now this girl is hassling him for commitment and finances. *eyeroll*. OK.

Why is it always the first assumption that this girl might be sleeping around with other men? Couldn't it be possible that she is telling him the truth. I would assume he is the father until proven otherwise.

Nej 11-16-2010 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cheetara (Post 1524932)
The pig spore has hit the wind spinner.

Has he seen any kind of official pregnancy test? Can he take her to a lab to get the HCG measured in her blood? That can be a guide to how far along in her alleged pregnancy she is.

This was my advice as well. He needs PROOF. Not just an ultrasound picture but an actual doctor confirming it in front of him. He needs this before anything else in my opinion. So far all he has is her word and the ultrasound.

ETA: Until he has this he should act as if he is the father. He doesn't believe she slept with other guys at all, but it is to protect him in case she is lying about being pregnant at all. Like I said I have known girls who have done this in the past ... like more than one hands' worth.

hmkenny 11-16-2010 12:59 PM

Well, technically, his hockey career doesn't even exist yet, so he's not really giving that up. Women make all sorts of sacrifices when they decide to have a child, with or without a partner. If it's his child then he has to do the right things, but he should definitely have a paternity test done to make sure. It sucks to see someone you care about in a predicament like this.

jenny curl 11-16-2010 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kat180 (Post 1524929)
I feel for her.

Sorry.

Im not condoning certain behaviour (if, like RCW said, all of it is true). But, she is probably freaking out. She is pregnant by a guy she has known 2 months, who even by your accounts, is a bit of an unemployed dead-beat. Her life has taken a complete u-turn, she may not want, be ready, or able to care for a baby. And it seems like she has little to no support. I don't blame her being desperate to get back together if she feels she needs someone in this with her. It may not be the best thing, but it sure is understandable.

He does need to be clear on his feelings for her. He needs to get a paternity test. And he also needs to man up, get a job, and start acting like a father. From now. If abortion is out, this woman is going to need support from him, whether he wants to be a couple or not.

She doesn't need to just make decisions for herself and her baby. They need to make decisions for their child.

You feel for her?? I don't! I can't tell you how many girls who "say" they're on birth control but WHOOPS get pregnant after 2 months of knowing someone. It just happens too often to feel sorry anymore. I mean yeah, maybe this kid IS making her feel crazy, because I know that feeling, but the whole getting pregnant sh1t is just uncalled for. MAYBE it truly WAS an accident, but I just don't buy it.

kat180 11-16-2010 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nej (Post 1524935)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kat180 (Post 1524929)
I feel for her.

Sorry.

Im not condoning certain behaviour (if, like RCW said, all of it is true). But, she is probably freaking out. She is pregnant by a guy she has known 2 months, who even by your accounts, is a bit of an unemployed dead-beat. Her life has taken a complete u-turn, she may not want, be ready, or able to care for a baby. And it seems like she has little to no support. I don't blame her being desperate to get back together if she feels she needs someone in this with her. It may not be the best thing, but it sure is understandable.

He does need to be clear on his feelings for her. He needs to get a paternity test. And he also needs to man up, get a job, and start acting like a father. From now. If abortion is out, this woman is going to need support from him, whether he wants to be a couple or not.

She doesn't need to just make decisions for herself and her baby. They need to make decisions for their child.

I feel bad for her too :( This whole thing is such a mess and you know what? He's a total screw up ... I've always reassured him that he's not but when you bring another life into the equation it's a whole nother issue. He's made a mess of everthing and is completley selfish and immature in many of his decisions. This is first real consequence and he needs to get his head out of the clouds and be a man.

I posted this also to help sort out my own feelings on it .... your responses and mine are definitely helping me sort things out in my own head.

I get the venting :) You seem a good friend. None of my post was directed at you or your actions (just to be clear). I was starting to rant in general lol!

jenny curl 11-16-2010 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kat180 (Post 1524940)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny curl (Post 1524928)
I wouldn't make any hasty decisions or advice until he is FOR SURE that this girl is pregnant and that it is HIS baby. After that, my only advice to him would be to talk with that crazy girl (sorry, but she does seem crazy) and try to figure out a game plan. Whether she decides to keep it, get an abortion or put it up for adoption, these are all important decisions that need to be made right away. I do feel sorry for him, even though he did not protect himself ( BIG NO ) because he did get himself screwed and now must deal with the consequences. Try, if possible, not to let his situation bring YOU down, I think that's the most important part.

Im sorry I dont quite understand your post.

How has he got himself screwed? How has he been screwed over? He is as responsible as she is for the position they are both are in. Poor him. He had unprotected sex and now this girl is hassling him for commitment and finances. *eyeroll*. OK.

Why is it always the first assumption that this girl might be sleeping around with other men? Couldn't it be possible that she is telling him the truth. I would assume he is the father until proven otherwise.

I am sorry if I seem like the minority here, but I've just witnessed way too many girls get pregnant "by accident". I'm not praising his behavior nor hers. I'm not sticking up for either of them. Not pointing fingers. They are both in the wrong and must now deal with it. When I said she seemed crazy, it was just my opinion. Its weird to me that she waited until after he found out about the facebook messages AND after she was 6 weeks late to tell this guy that he was having a child. Sorry it just doesn't add up to me to see this girl as not being a little off her rocker. YES it is both their faults, and I truly feel sorry for the both of them.

kat180 11-16-2010 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jenny curl (Post 1524943)
Quote:

Originally Posted by kat180 (Post 1524929)
I feel for her.

Sorry.

Im not condoning certain behaviour (if, like RCW said, all of it is true). But, she is probably freaking out. She is pregnant by a guy she has known 2 months, who even by your accounts, is a bit of an unemployed dead-beat. Her life has taken a complete u-turn, she may not want, be ready, or able to care for a baby. And it seems like she has little to no support. I don't blame her being desperate to get back together if she feels she needs someone in this with her. It may not be the best thing, but it sure is understandable.

He does need to be clear on his feelings for her. He needs to get a paternity test. And he also needs to man up, get a job, and start acting like a father. From now. If abortion is out, this woman is going to need support from him, whether he wants to be a couple or not.

She doesn't need to just make decisions for herself and her baby. They need to make decisions for their child.

You feel for her?? I don't! I can't tell you how many girls who "say" they're on birth control but WHOOPS get pregnant after 2 months of knowing someone. It just happens too often to feel sorry anymore. I mean yeah, maybe this kid IS making her feel crazy, because I know that feeling, but the whole getting pregnant sh1t is just uncalled for. MAYBE it truly WAS an accident, but I just don't buy it.

Yeah. I do feel for her.

Birth control isn't a hundred percent affective. Pregnancies happen.

And Im sorry, but since when is it always the girls sole responsibility for birth control, and only her *fault* when unwanted pregnancies do occur?

To the bolded - it seems you think she is a b*tch and mean, for bringing him these extra 'hassle' and 'problems' saying she is pregnant and all. Is that correct?

Edit: ok we posted at the same time!

You above posts clarifies things more.

6 weeks isn't that long really. Thats only one, maybe two periods missed. My mum didn't realize she was pregnant til she was 3 months gone!

jenny curl 11-16-2010 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kat180 (Post 1524948)
Yeah. I do feel for her.

Birth control isn't a hundred percent affective. Pregnancies happen.

And Im sorry, but since when is it always the girls sole responsibility for birth control, and only her *fault* when unwanted pregnancies do occur?

To the bolded - it seems you think she is a b*tch and mean, for bringing him these extra 'hassle' and 'problems' saying she is pregnant and all. Is that correct?

To your bolded: I did not say any of that, so please do not put words in my mouth. Also, just to clarify if I had been confusing, I do not think she is a b1tch or mean for presenting him with these problems, I said based on OPs story, she seems to have a few screws loose. And that's coming directly from what the OP said about her.

kat180 11-16-2010 01:16 PM

Jenny-curl. ^ Thats the vibe I was getting from your post, in regards to what I bolded about it being uncalled for etc and the whole tone.

I know our posts have gotten crossed because we are posted at the same time too. I did say, you had clarified things more in my edit above.

I too, feel sorry for both of them. But I still feel more sorry for the woman. But thats just me.


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