Are Some Americans Really This Stupid or is this a Fake Video

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Curlcraze, you're my new BFF - totally, totally agree with every word!
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











nm

Last edited by Eilonwy; 01-31-2011 at 04:21 PM.
And since I'm ranting now, I would also like to add that the recent immigrants who made the news for donating blood made me happy as hell to have them here.
Originally Posted by ninja dog
You should be happy and grateful, cause you yourself are an immigrant.

There is only one true "American" and that is the Native Americans who were here for thousands of years before the Europeans brought their germs and guns and took over. :-)

And if the European is American, then ALL OF US are American.
Originally Posted by Curlcraze4
Do you know this to be actually true about ND? Why do you assume she's not a Native American?
i'd argue that switzerland passively profited a great deal from world war II.
(cause sarasara said switzerland was a nice place in comparison to america)
i'd argue that switzerland passively profited a great deal from world war II.
(cause sarasara said switzerland was a nice place in comparison to america)
Originally Posted by frau
They had to be forced to give money back to the families of Holocaust victims, and recently I believe that they banned mosques, or tried to.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











I know you know that there are many, many crimes such as these which the US government has committed. So (not out of sarcasm) I want to know, why would you think that the US government is not more cruel than other governments that exist today?
Originally Posted by sarasara
Because the US government is not more cruel. It's just the country with the greatest ability to act on that cruelty. Right now the US can get away with all that stuff without getting its ass kicked, while most countries are unable to do that. But if the US weren't committing these atrocities, then one or more other countries would be doing it. That's been going on since the start of human history.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
This. And that's what's bothering me about this thread. Long before the US existed, countries all over the world were committing all manner of atrocities. And I'm not even going to get into things that the Middle East has done to its own people. Sarasara wants to act like the US is setting some standard of cruelty and keeps going on about its evils, but please, if some other country were in the same position, you want to try to tell us they'd be better? Well, history says you're wrong. Over and over.
We can kick this around forever, but it doesn't resolve anything. Some human beings are prone to being cruel, lazy, exploitative, etc. We all have this capacity within us. And the abuse of power comes as no surprise.

We can and should do better, but to pretend that the above behaviors should be uniquely ascribed to any one group is preposterous.

Some assert that the world today is a less violent place. Something to think about. We don't always have an appreciation, in our mundane daily lives, for the arc of history.
I know you know that there are many, many crimes such as these which the US government has committed. So (not out of sarcasm) I want to know, why would you think that the US government is not more cruel than other governments that exist today?
Originally Posted by sarasara
Because the US government is not more cruel. It's just the country with the greatest ability to act on that cruelty. Right now the US can get away with all that stuff without getting its ass kicked, while most countries are unable to do that. But if the US weren't committing these atrocities, then one or more other countries would be doing it. That's been going on since the start of human history.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
This. And that's what's bothering me about this thread. Long before the US existed, countries all over the world were committing all manner of atrocities. And I'm not even going to get into things that the Middle East has done to its own people. Sarasara wants to act like the US is setting some standard of cruelty and keeps going on about its evils, but please, if some other country were in the same position, you want to try to tell us they'd be better? Well, history says you're wrong. Over and over.
Originally Posted by Saria

Don't you DARE tell me what crimes people do to each other in MY region. Did I EVER talk about the crimes the government has been inflicting on the US? NO. I DON'T care. It's NONE of my business what the US decides to do with itself.


I am AWARE of the crimes that are happening in the Middle East. I am AWARE of the videos that show Arab men cutting of another man's head and placing his bleeding head into his dead hands. I have SEEN pictures of women being trapped into a hole inthe ground, being stoned to death. So don't you DARE interfere in this. Yes, there have been terrorists who spread their germs everywhere (not legally though, as had the US). But you are speaking of what the Mddle East has done to ITSELF. I am AWARE of what the Middle East done to itself. And that does NOT concern you. WE are killing EACH OTHER. WE are inflicting harm against EACH OTHER. LEAVE US TO SUFFER IN OUR OWN MISERY. IT DOES NOT INVOLVE YOU. IT INVOLVES ONLY OURSELVES.
Because the US government is not more cruel. It's just the country with the greatest ability to act on that cruelty. Right now the US can get away with all that stuff without getting its ass kicked, while most countries are unable to do that. But if the US weren't committing these atrocities, then one or more other countries would be doing it. That's been going on since the start of human history.
Originally Posted by Eilonwy
This. And that's what's bothering me about this thread. Long before the US existed, countries all over the world were committing all manner of atrocities. And I'm not even going to get into things that the Middle East has done to its own people. Sarasara wants to act like the US is setting some standard of cruelty and keeps going on about its evils, but please, if some other country were in the same position, you want to try to tell us they'd be better? Well, history says you're wrong. Over and over.
Originally Posted by Saria

Don't you DARE tell me what crimes people do to each other in MY region. Did I EVER talk about the crimes the government has been inflicting on the US? NO. I DON'T care. It's NONE of my business what the US decides to do with itself.


I am AWARE of the crimes that are happening in the Middle East. I am AWARE of the videos that show Arab men cutting of another man's head and placing his bleeding head into his dead hands. I have SEEN pictures of women being trapped into a hole inthe ground, being stoned to death. So don't you DARE interfere in this. Yes, there have been terrorists who spread their germs everywhere (not legally though, as had the US). But you are speaking of what the Mddle East has done to ITSELF. I am AWARE of what the Middle East done to itself. And that does NOT concern you. WE are killing EACH OTHER. WE are inflicting harm against EACH OTHER. LEAVE US TO SUFFER IN OUR OWN MISERY. IT DOES NOT INVOLVE YOU. IT INVOLVES ONLY OURSELVES.
Originally Posted by sarasara
Wow. Way to completely ignore Saria's point and jump all over her for telling the truth. You want to call the United States horrible, yet you get surprised when it's residents get defensive of their home country, yet when someone points out that there is not a single country that is innocent, including those in the Middle East, you freak out, and completely miss the valid point that is being made.
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Sometimes when we are really bothered by our own [and our own people's] actions, we project out that disgust to others' behaviors as a way of dealing with it — psychologically, emotionally.

Also, "hysterical is historical." If the reaction seems disproportionate, look deeper. There is more than meets the eye.

None of what I am saying above in any way excuses the U.S.'s role in conflicts across the globe. But it is a real phenomenon that people sometimes react this way, and I suspect sarasara is experiencing it here.

JMO

Last edited by wild~hair; 12-22-2010 at 05:11 PM.

This. And that's what's bothering me about this thread. Long before the US existed, countries all over the world were committing all manner of atrocities. And I'm not even going to get into things that the Middle East has done to its own people. Sarasara wants to act like the US is setting some standard of cruelty and keeps going on about its evils, but please, if some other country were in the same position, you want to try to tell us they'd be better? Well, history says you're wrong. Over and over.
Originally Posted by Saria

Don't you DARE tell me what crimes people do to each other in MY region. Did I EVER talk about the crimes the government has been inflicting on the US? NO. I DON'T care. It's NONE of my business what the US decides to do with itself.


I am AWARE of the crimes that are happening in the Middle East. I am AWARE of the videos that show Arab men cutting of another man's head and placing his bleeding head into his dead hands. I have SEEN pictures of women being trapped into a hole inthe ground, being stoned to death. So don't you DARE interfere in this. Yes, there have been terrorists who spread their germs everywhere (not legally though, as had the US). But you are speaking of what the Mddle East has done to ITSELF. I am AWARE of what the Middle East done to itself. And that does NOT concern you. WE are killing EACH OTHER. WE are inflicting harm against EACH OTHER. LEAVE US TO SUFFER IN OUR OWN MISERY. IT DOES NOT INVOLVE YOU. IT INVOLVES ONLY OURSELVES.
Originally Posted by sarasara
Wow. Way to completely ignore Saria's point and jump all over her for telling the truth. You want to call the United States horrible, yet you get surprised when it's residents get defensive of their home country, yet when someone points out that there is not a single country that is innocent, including those in the Middle East, you freak out, and completely miss the valid point that is being made.
Originally Posted by emthefantastical

No. When the Middle East gets called a terrorist for killing OTHER people, I don't care. I have accepted it as it is. When people want to interfere in OUR conflicts that we have in our countries, then YES, I WILL get DEFENSIVE. I did not come here criticizing Americans for hurting each other. I came here saying negative comments because they are hurting other people.


YOU are missing the point. If you cannot UNDERSTAND my point already, you probably shouldn't BE reading this.


I cannot make it more simple than it already is.

Call us terrorists for being involved in other regions. Go crazy, do investigations, blah blah. But DO NOT INTERFERE WITH US, WITH OUR DEALINGS WITH EACH OTHER.


Still difficult to understand?
Sometimes when we are really bothered by our own [and our own people's] actions, we project out that disgust to others' behaviors as a way of dealing with it psychologically, emotionally.

Also, "hysterical is historical." If the reaction seems disproportionate, look deeper. There is more than meets the eye.

None of what I am saying above in any way excuses the U.S.'s role in conflicts across the globe. But it is a real phenomenon that people sometimes react this way, and I suspect sarasara is experiencing it here.

JMO
Originally Posted by wild~hair

I'm not sure if you are referring only to one person in particular (and that would be me), or in general. But, I'll assure you that, even though some people who were under direct tryanny wanted help, they themselves despised the outside "help" that came to them, the one they were looking forward to.
The big majority of people here want others to mind their own business, even when they don't enjoy their present living conditions.


Don't you DARE tell me what crimes people do to each other in MY region. Did I EVER talk about the crimes the government has been inflicting on the US? NO. I DON'T care. It's NONE of my business what the US decides to do with itself.


I am AWARE of the crimes that are happening in the Middle East. I am AWARE of the videos that show Arab men cutting of another man's head and placing his bleeding head into his dead hands. I have SEEN pictures of women being trapped into a hole inthe ground, being stoned to death. So don't you DARE interfere in this. Yes, there have been terrorists who spread their germs everywhere (not legally though, as had the US). But you are speaking of what the Mddle East has done to ITSELF. I am AWARE of what the Middle East done to itself. And that does NOT concern you. WE are killing EACH OTHER. WE are inflicting harm against EACH OTHER. LEAVE US TO SUFFER IN OUR OWN MISERY. IT DOES NOT INVOLVE YOU. IT INVOLVES ONLY OURSELVES.
Originally Posted by sarasara
Wow. Way to completely ignore Saria's point and jump all over her for telling the truth. You want to call the United States horrible, yet you get surprised when it's residents get defensive of their home country, yet when someone points out that there is not a single country that is innocent, including those in the Middle East, you freak out, and completely miss the valid point that is being made.
Originally Posted by emthefantastical

No. When the Middle East gets called a terrorist for killing OTHER people, I don't care. I have accepted it as it is. When people want to interfere in OUR conflicts that we have in our countries, then YES, I WILL get DEFENSIVE. I did not come here criticizing Americans for hurting each other. I came here saying negative comments because they are hurting other people.


YOU are missing the point. If you cannot UNDERSTAND my point already, you probably shouldn't BE reading this.


I cannot make it more simple than it already is.

Call us terrorists for being involved in other regions. Go crazy, do investigations, blah blah. But DO NOT INTERFERE WITH US, WITH OUR DEALINGS WITH EACH OTHER.


Still difficult to understand?
Originally Posted by sarasara
1) To claim that Americans are hurting others is, sorry to say, but not correct at all. I am not hurting anyone. I am voting for those who say their goal is to get the United States out of the Middle East, I am protesting, I am doing all that I can do as a citizen of this country. So do not generalize. I do not generalize the entire Middle East as terrorists, unless I am being facetious, which I have been in this thread because of your refusal to see past the end of your own nose.

2) Great. It's none of my business what people in the Middle East do to each other. But, as a humanitarian, it is not a crime to be concerned with the well-being of others, even if they are not citizens of your own country. I'm sure you can find many others, outside of the United States, who have concern about the activity in the Middle East.

3)I am not missing the point. I understand your point, but you refuse to see others point. Saria's point was not to interfere with your dealings with each other. She was trying to say that no, the United States is not innocent, but to try and even claim that the United States is so much worse than other countries who have been in power, and those who are not in power is completely ignorant. Either you have no historical knowledge, or you refuse to admit to yourself that it doesn't matter that it's the United States. Go read a history book. Look at the atrocities that were committed by the British Empire, the things that have happened in Australia in regards to the aborigenes. Please, actually read what people are saying before you jump down their throats and put words in their mouth.
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nm

Last edited by Eilonwy; 01-31-2011 at 04:22 PM.
Please, actually read what people are saying before you jump down their throats and put words in their mouth.
Originally Posted by emthefantastical
After going through this thread, I'm pretty sure that reading what other people are saying was never sarasara's intent.

I'm not sure what would make her happy at this point. Many people in this post have tried to establish meaningful dialogue, pointed out that they have actively protested against US actions, voted for politicians they hoped would change foreign policy, educated themselves better than the people in the offending video, et cetera, and apparently that is not good enough for her. I think she just wants to yell at us for being bad horrible no good Americans.
gardencurls likes this.

Please, actually read what people are saying before you jump down their throats and put words in their mouth.
Originally Posted by emthefantastical
After going through this thread, I'm pretty sure that reading what other people are saying was never sarasara's intent.

I'm not sure what would make her happy at this point. Many people in this post have tried to establish meaningful dialogue, pointed out that they have actively protested against US actions, voted for politicians they hoped would change foreign policy, educated themselves better than the people in the offending video, et cetera, and apparently that is not good enough for her. I think she just wants to yell at us for being bad horrible no good Americans.
Originally Posted by iris427
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Hey, everyone, please tone this down. This has been an interesting opportunity to discuss some controversial issues. I would rather not have to lock the thread, but I will if you can't stop the personal attacks and insults.
Curlcraze, you're my new BFF - totally, totally agree with every word!
Originally Posted by Amneris
Good to meet you. :-)


Don't you DARE tell me what crimes people do to each other in MY region. Did I EVER talk about the crimes the government has been inflicting on the US? NO. I DON'T care. It's NONE of my business what the US decides to do with itself.


I am AWARE of the crimes that are happening in the Middle East. I am AWARE of the videos that show Arab men cutting of another man's head and placing his bleeding head into his dead hands. I have SEEN pictures of women being trapped into a hole inthe ground, being stoned to death. So don't you DARE interfere in this. Yes, there have been terrorists who spread their germs everywhere (not legally though, as had the US). But you are speaking of what the Mddle East has done to ITSELF. I am AWARE of what the Middle East done to itself. And that does NOT concern you. WE are killing EACH OTHER. WE are inflicting harm against EACH OTHER. LEAVE US TO SUFFER IN OUR OWN MISERY. IT DOES NOT INVOLVE YOU. IT INVOLVES ONLY OURSELVES.
Originally Posted by sarasara
Wow. Way to completely ignore Saria's point and jump all over her for telling the truth. You want to call the United States horrible, yet you get surprised when it's residents get defensive of their home country, yet when someone points out that there is not a single country that is innocent, including those in the Middle East, you freak out, and completely miss the valid point that is being made.
Originally Posted by emthefantastical

No. When the Middle East gets called a terrorist for killing OTHER people, I don't care. I have accepted it as it is. When people want to interfere in OUR conflicts that we have in our countries, then YES, I WILL get DEFENSIVE. I did not come here criticizing Americans for hurting each other. I came here saying negative comments because they are hurting other people.


YOU are missing the point. If you cannot UNDERSTAND my point already, you probably shouldn't BE reading this.


I cannot make it more simple than it already is.

Call us terrorists for being involved in other regions. Go crazy, do investigations, blah blah. But DO NOT INTERFERE WITH US, WITH OUR DEALINGS WITH EACH OTHER.


Still difficult to understand?
Originally Posted by sarasara
Good point.
And what really GALLS me is the fact that people see America as this idyllic country where everyone is able and free to engage in the pursuit of happiness. Americans really feel annointed, like they are special and have something unique in this country. People ignore history COMPLETELY. You have to be a blind man to think this is a benevolent nation. So it's not strictly about how cruel it is, which it indisputably is. It's about the UNBELIEVABLE LIE about its nature.
sarasara,

Thanks for all of your posts in this thread. I enjoyed reading them, and agree with much of what you said (the parts I'm knowledgeable enough to have an opinion on anyway ). I don't think you painted all Americans with a broad brush. From reading your posts, though, I can see areas where I have been negligent and/or willfully ignorant - I have the luxury of not thinking about things at the same level you've done.

I am stupid when it comes to politics, foreign policy/government, and many other civics related issues. Those are not things I have ever had an interest in and obviously are not priorities for me, so it's not an insult to me to tell me that - it's a fact. I totally get what you're saying about you having the right to feel anger toward people like me who blindly vote without knowing the full impact of our decisions. Regardless of if everything you wrote here is accurate, the point is valid.

I can't say that I will make a concerted effort from this point forward to actively work against things I disagree with or even think about this much in the near future (which is really horrible, but keeping it real). However, I am definitely more aware of how my lack of action, and my lack of effort to gain more information, rightfully contributes to perceptions such as yours AND the very real atrocities we as Americans (who benefit from what our elected officials do in our names) perpetuate on others' soils. I can also see others' viewpoints who've posted to you, but just speaking for me, I appreciate every single post and don't have a problem with anything you wrote.

Thanks so much!
People rise to the standard expected of them. GC

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