Porn and men's lowly view of women

Okay, I'm not a fuddy duddy. I get it why men want to look at naked women. I'm not against porn, per se. I am disgusted by porn that debases women. My husband's friend sent him a link of three women with their freshly shaven vaginas exposed and sparklers up their anuses. The sparkers were lit and then it said "Happy New Years." I'm not mad at my husband...he was the receiver, not the sender of this link. But it made me lose respect for his friend.

I know sexism is alive and well. I'm not naive. I am aware that most men think they are superior to most women...there are some men who are exceptions...some great men out there that do not value women less than them...but I'm convinced most men really devalue women.
We are the ones that give birth, nurture, we outlive men...we have a lot of positives going for us...we are smaller, weaker on average...but really? Does that make us inferior in men's eyes?
What is it?! When I saw this link...it brought back old issues for me. I used to obsess about sexism and how women get treated unfairly. I had to stop obessing, for my own sanity.
I can't help but think of it again.

I am just so angry about that.
Am I seeing things wrong? If I'm not, how do you keep your sanity through this? If I'm seeing things wrong, please help me see things better.

My New Year's Resolution is to have a more positive attitude...so I'm really TRYING to not let this bother me.
I now have my radar up, concerning my husband's friend. If I notice he's more sexist than the typical "benign well-intentioned" sexism, I am not going to like this man at all!
I hope I'm not over-reacting. Grrrrrr!
Help me keep my sanity and try to look at things more positively, if possible.
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I can definitely understand you being grossed out by the picture and thinking less of your husband's friend. I'm curious how you came to see the picture.
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This is a tough one, boomy.

What I've heard from intelligent, reasonably sensitive men about porn aligns with what you've already said above. Yet, there's that element of debasement in much of it --- in porn --- that's deeply disturbing.

I don't get it either. I want to be able to say something wise, or neutral, but....what you've described is both hurtful and demeaning. The friend who sent that link sounds like an ass.
Okay, I'm not a fuddy duddy. I get it why men want to look at naked women. I'm not against porn, per se. I am disgusted by porn that debases women. My husband's friend sent him a link of three women with their freshly shaven vaginas exposed and sparklers up their anuses. The sparkers were lit and then it said "Happy New Years." I'm not mad at my husband...he was the receiver, not the sender of this link. But it made me lose respect for his friend.

I know sexism is alive and well. I'm not naive. I am aware that most men think they are superior to most women...there are some men who are exceptions...some great men out there that do not value women less than them...but I'm convinced most men really devalue women.
We are the ones that give birth, nurture, we outlive men...we have a lot of positives going for us...we are smaller, weaker on average...but really? Does that make us inferior in men's eyes?
What is it?! When I saw this link...it brought back old issues for me. I used to obsess about sexism and how women get treated unfairly. I had to stop obessing, for my own sanity.
I can't help but think of it again.

I am just so angry about that.
Am I seeing things wrong? If I'm not, how do you keep your sanity through this? If I'm seeing things wrong, please help me see things better.

My New Year's Resolution is to have a more positive attitude...so I'm really TRYING to not let this bother me.
I now have my radar up, concerning my husband's friend. If I notice he's more sexist than the typical "benign well-intentioned" sexism, I am not going to like this man at all!
I hope I'm not over-reacting. Grrrrrr!
Help me keep my sanity and try to look at things more positively, if possible.
Originally Posted by Boomygrrl
I feel very much the same as you, boomy, and in the interest of brevity, I'll just leave it at that. As for how I maintain my sanity, I just try to view it all with a scientific eye only and try not to wrap my big, human-sized brain around it too much because therein lies the problem. It also helps to have an awesome, understanding bf, who is one of the one in a billion who either isn't like that (not very likely) or has matured and knows better how to keep that behavior under wraps (great possibility).

More confusing to me is why women propagate this by allowing themselves to be photographed nude with sparklers shoved up their asses. Not enough $$ in the world to make me sell out like that (and don't anyone assume it's because I'm a h8ter...nothing wrong with my ass ).

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Last edited by ~Ghost Poster~; 01-03-2011 at 06:03 PM.
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I've wondered about the women who do this, too. There's got to be something behind it.

It makes me sad.
I've wondered about the women who do this, too. There's got to be something behind it.

It makes me sad.
Originally Posted by ninja dog


I'm fairly convinced that most women in the porn industry have emotional damage and/or a history of sexual abuse.

I'd be wary of that "friend" also, Boomy.
This is a very difficult question to answer. You're on to something here.

I can't justify porn, and I don't want to. However, I do think it helps to put it in context. The internet is crazy, crazy, CRAZY place. It's not "real." It's a fantasy. As sick and disturbing it may be, it's not real. Think of how many people look at porn (men AND women). Then think of how many people actually act out on their "fantasies" or even want to. Obviously it's impossible to get numbers on this, but what I'm trying to say is this: the vast majority of people who view porn don't take it seriously.

Now, that does not necessarily make it any less demeaning. It is what it is. People are people. People sometimes have sick fantasies. They always have. The internet just makes it possible for you to view it very easily.

As others have said, it's important to note that the women are doing this willingly. (Whether they have problems and shouldn't be allowed to make these decisions is a different issue.) I've heard interviews of pornstars where they say they feel "empowered" and "beautiful." I've also heard interviews of former pornstars who have created a support group to help get young women out of porn. The main point is that women are allowed to speak up and do what they think is right. This is a tremendous privilege, regardless of gender.

Yes, it is overall very saddening no matter how I look at it.

The only thoughts that make me feel better is thinking about all the trials and tribulations womankind has gone through since the advent of agriculture. There's a long way to go, obviously, but there is also a huge amount of strength to be had in our collective success.

On a personal level, what gives me hope is my SO. He is the most ridiculously compassionate, patient, kind and fair human being I know. Things like this make me sad, but knowing that there's people like him, it makes me feel better. He's often come up to me and said "I hate it when guys..." and brought up some of the points that you did. They're not all heartless *******s after all!

I don't know if I made any sense, but I hope that helps you feel a little bit better.

Last edited by Saila; 01-03-2011 at 06:52 PM.
Ya know Boomy, I was just thinking about this. My SO and I were watching a movie when he got a picture message. He deleted it without even opening it. When I asked him why, he said that anything sent from this particular co worker is down right disgusting. He had never mentioned the texts before so when another one came in, I had him open it. It is always the same thing, naked women in degrading acts. I hadn't realized that porn had now moved on into text messaging world.
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This is a very difficult question to answer. You're on to something here.

I can't justify porn, and I don't want to. However, I do think it helps to put it in context. The internet is crazy, crazy, CRAZY place. It's not "real." It's a fantasy. As sick and disturbing it may be, it's not real. Think of how many people look at porn (men AND women). Then think of how many people actually act out on their "fantasies" or even want to. Obviously it's impossible to get numbers on this, but what I'm trying to say is this: the vast majority of people who view porn don't take it seriously.

Now, that does not necessarily make it any less demeaning. It is what it is. People are people. People sometimes have sick fantasies. They always have. The internet just makes it possible for you to view it very easily.

As others have said, it's important to note that the women are doing this willingly. (Whether they have problems and shouldn't be allowed to make these decisions is a different issue.) I've heard interviews of pornstars where they say they feel "empowered" and "beautiful." I've also heard interviews of former pornstars who have created a support group to help get young women out of porn. The main point is that women are allowed to speak up and do what they think is right. This is a tremendous privilege, regardless of gender.

Yes, it is overall very saddening no matter how I look at it.

The only thoughts that make me feel better is thinking about all the trials and tribulations womankind has gone through since the advent of agriculture. There's a long way to go, obviously, but there is also a huge amount of strength to be had in our collective success.

On a personal level, what gives me hope is my SO. He is the most ridiculously compassionate, patient, kind and fair human being I know. Things like this make me sad, but knowing that there's people like him, it makes me feel better. He's often come up to me and said "I hate it when guys..." and brought up some of the points that you did. They're not all heartless *******s after all!

I don't know if I made any sense, but I hope that helps you feel a little bit better.
Originally Posted by Saila
This post is on point.

Regarding the part I bolded, I've always been curious as to what exactly is "empowering" or "beautiful" about such acts. What is going on in the mind of the empowered porn star and why do they feel that way? Just wondering, not trying to be offensive or anything.
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Last edited by Eilonwy; 01-31-2011 at 12:48 PM.
I posted this same thing on another forum. They kept responding how it is consensual, so it isn't a problem. I'm not advocating banning porn. I was just disturbed that this friend found it funny. I find it disturbing that violent porn that puts women as the butt of jokeks is considered funny. I'm the wacko on that forum for having the gut reaction that it is disturbing.
It's more about him sending it to my husband. If he found it online, fine. Sharing it, well that makes me wonder.
I'm not saying he is a scum bag. I'm saying it gives me pause about him. My radar is up. I'll see how he treats women in general for now on.
Also, they debate with me the notion that men think they are superior to women. Anonymous studies have shown that most men do think they are smarter and more capablelll than women. Not all, but most. I see that attitude around me...it's more subtle, usually. but it's there.
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I can definitely understand you being grossed out by the picture and thinking less of your husband's friend. I'm curious how you came to see the picture.
Originally Posted by mrspoppers
ita...
I can definitely understand you being grossed out by the picture and thinking less of your husband's friend. I'm curious how you came to see the picture.
Originally Posted by mrspoppers
ita...
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I wanted to add something here. My ex would sometimes get picture messages that I found disturbing but that he found funny, and I always questioned it. For example, he once sent me a picture message that was of 3 stick-people -- 2 guys and 1 girl. the girl was in the middle, on her hands and knees and bent at the waist, and there was a guy on each end (I'm sure you can figure out the rest) just going at it and pounding the crap out of her. Most people probably wouldn't be phased by this, but I always thought it to be mildly disturbing that my ex found things like this hysterical. A lot of it I assumed to be immaturity. But still.... seriously?

I get what you're saying boomy. I hope to find a man who is more mature than your husband's friend.
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I came across this article a few weeks ago and I appreciated the candor of some of the people interviewed. Why some men think porn is wrong.

I have a whole Christian worldview when it comes to this, but I won't get into that here (unless I can be concise) because otherwise, it won't be constructive. It CAN be to share my thoughts there, but I would really put effort into all angles of it. There's a whole lot of others thoughts it would require speaking to, getting into apologetics and everything else.

That being said, I thought this was really interesting (from the article) no matter where you're coming from:
“Pornotopia is the place where [young men] can get even,” he wrote, “where women get what they ‘deserve’ and the guys never have to be tested, or face rejection. And so the pornographic universe becomes a place of homosocial solace, a refuge from the harsh reality of a more gender equitable world than has ever existed. It’s about anger at the loss of privilege — and an effort to restore men’s unchallenged authority. And, it turns out, that anger is worse among younger men.”
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I came across this article a few weeks ago and I appreciated the candor of some of the people interviewed. Why some men think porn is wrong.

I have a whole Christian worldview when it comes to this, but I won't get into that here (unless I can be concise) because otherwise, it won't be constructive. It CAN be to share my thoughts there, but I would really put effort into all angles of it. There's a whole lot of others thoughts it would require speaking to, getting into apologetics and everything else.

That being said, I thought this was really interesting (from the article) no matter where you're coming from:
“Pornotopia is the place where [young men] can get even,” he wrote, “where women get what they ‘deserve’ and the guys never have to be tested, or face rejection. And so the pornographic universe becomes a place of homosocial solace, a refuge from the harsh reality of a more gender equitable world than has ever existed. It’s about anger at the loss of privilege — and an effort to restore men’s unchallenged authority. And, it turns out, that anger is worse among younger men.”
Originally Posted by sew and sew
That is a great article, s&s.
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Guys don't have any respect for these women, either. They just want to f them, then maybe kick them in the face for being so disgusting, and move onto the next.

It's not about anything but that.

And being desired in that way is validation for the women.

Last edited by slinky1; 01-04-2011 at 07:13 PM.
That image is just gross. I mean, there's porn and then there's porn.
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Thanks all. I feel better today. I was getting a mild depression about it yesterday, but I kept telling myself women have made a lot of progress, there are some great guys out there, and I will continue to assert myself.
I am not saying this guy is a jerk...not yet, at least. I'm using this as a source of information and is making me more cautious about him...that's it. If he turns out to be a jerk, then bye bye. I don't want to surround myself with people that devalue women. Sorry, but no way.
Maybe I was over-reacting, but I'm using that as A source (not THE source) of information in forming an opinon about whether I want this guy around me.

Porn is going to exist...people will have sick senses of humor...but if a person treats me poorly because they devalue women or if I see a person treats a woman poorly...I don't have to put up with that.

Thanks again!
The study I was referring to about men feeling superior to women...I admit it's like a 17 year old study. What do you think? Of course, none of us know the majority of men. Again, I know some great guys. I don't surround myself with jerks. So, what do you think? Do you think most men think they are superior to women in intellect and ability? I can think of a few in my real life...but most either don't think it or are smart enough not to show that. Hmmm...what is your experience with this? Have things gotten A LOT better in the past 17 years?
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Last edited by Eilonwy; 01-31-2011 at 12:48 PM.

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