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Old 01-01-2007, 07:24 PM   #41
 
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Originally Posted by roseannadana
This is her choice. I don't understand WHY a woman at her age would want to have children but I don't think you're going to see 65+ women beating down the doors of the invitro clinics.

There are plenty of older parents and grandparents who are raising babies and doing a great job. Younger, stronger, healthier does not necessarily equate to better parenting.

Everyone is picturing a decrepit, doddering old lady who can't find her teeth, much less take care of twins. Yes, there is the possibility that she will not see these babies into their 20's. But there is also the possibility that she has planned for their future and that she will love them and care for them. They are obviously very wanted, as anyone who has undergone invitro can tell you; it isn't an easy road.

Every child should be wanted so badly.
No, but if you're not, it can hamper said parenting significantly.

We were desperately wanted, too...when we were babies. My parents were not decrepit and doddering...that had nothing to do with it. I won't likely be of the same energy level when I am nearly 70 as I am now at 40. I can't even imagine raising twins and then teens--I sometimes don't have the energy NOW!

There are legitimate questions regarding the wisdom of a 67-yr-old woman raising twin newborns--moreso than not--the scope of which may not be known for many years. Someone said it well when they said it was a burden on the kids. Kids have enough to deal with without having to deal with a septuagenarian parent and all that can accompany that.
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Old 01-01-2007, 08:46 PM   #42
 
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I also think it's very selfish to birth children at such an advanced age. I think it's just as selfish when men father children at advanced ages, so I don't discriminate in my judgment.

I don't get why anyone would even do this. My very worst fear is that I will die before I get all my children raised. I had my youngest when I was 38, and I really can't imagine having children much past 45. It's just too old.

I hope there is a father in this scenario, and that he is substantially younger than the mother. The poor kids shouldn't have to lose both parents, or an only parent, before they reach adulthood.
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:37 AM   #43
 
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Originally Posted by Peppy
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Originally Posted by fig jam
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This is shameful, with all the children in the world waiting to be adopted or fostered or mentored who need loving homes or the support of someone living in the west. It's too bad that this woman preferred to use an egg donor than help some existing children.
Be careful, there. It's not too far a logical leap to go from this statement to saying the same thing about any woman choosing to get pregnant rather than adopt/foster/mentor "some existing children" "who need loving homes or the support of someone living in the west."

I really don't think you want or mean to say that, but you're standing on a slippery slope with THAT argument.
I was just about to post the same thing. Amneris, what if someone said what is bolded to you but instead of saying "use an egg donor" they said "choose to become pregnant"? How would you respond?
To an extent, I do feel guilty about becoming pregnant when there are so many kids in need, so I wouldn't get all up in arms if someone said that. My husband and I ALWAYS said we want to adopt or foster at least one or two kids and give them a home whether or not we have biological kids. It was so important to me that I made sure it was discussed and he was on board before we got married. We have been sponsoring two children since we got married and would love to add more.

We are having biolgical children because to us in our faith, it is a spiritual thing - one of the main elements of marriage to us is procreation and an openness to being blessed wit children if this is God's will. We could not get married in our Church unless we promised in our pre-nup with our priest to be open to having children together. We were taught that if we were deliberately to prevent ourselves permanently from conceiving a child that we could be jeopardizing a Church wedding. Plus we have the usual reasons of couples who conceive children for desiring a family, and I have always loved kids and seen motherhood as a vocation that I am called to.

But I also always said that if there were medical reasons preventing us from conceiving, we would take that as God's will that we were meant to become non-biological children. We decided that we would not use IVF, egg donation, sperm donation, surrogates etc. because we are morally opposed to that. Instead, we would allow ourselves to be blessed with adoptive kids.

If we were able to conceive (which apparently we are), one or two of the three or four kids we want will be adopted or fostered, and I have already made that vow to the Lord. In this way, I feel good about having a biological child because he or she is preparing the way for us to open our home to another child.

It's not my place to judge what others do, but I do wish more people out there, whatever their fertility status, would consider adoption or fostering.
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Old 01-02-2007, 04:42 AM   #44
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseannadana
This is her choice. I don't understand WHY a woman at her age would want to have children but I don't think you're going to see 65+ women beating down the doors of the invitro clinics.

There are plenty of older parents and grandparents who are raising babies and doing a great job. Younger, stronger, healthier does not necessarily equate to better parenting.

Everyone is picturing a decrepit, doddering old lady who can't find her teeth, much less take care of twins. Yes, there is the possibility that she will not see these babies into their 20's. But there is also the possibility that she has planned for their future and that she will love them and care for them. They are obviously very wanted, as anyone who has undergone invitro can tell you; it isn't an easy road.

Every child should be wanted so badly.

As has been said, there is a big difference in grandparents stepping in out of necessity (or older parents conceiving accidentally and not getting an abortion - happens quite often) and someone choosing parenthood by medical intervention.

I think often it IS a burden on grandparents to have to raise grandchildren after they have raised their own kids, and it really changes what they had probably hoped for in their retirement. Thank God they love the kids and are willing to step in. But it's hardly an ideal or desirable situation - usually it is people making the best of a bad situation for the sake of family, which is admirable, but not something society should aspire to.
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Old 01-02-2007, 07:10 AM   #45
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
It's not my place to judge what others do
But you did it anyway, by calling this woman's situation shameful.

I personally would not choose to become a mother at 67. But I won't bash her for her decision.

I wish that woman and her children the best.
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Old 01-02-2007, 07:56 AM   #46
 
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It's not my place to judge what others do, but I do wish more people out there, whatever their fertility status, would consider adoption or fostering.

I'm not going to adopt or foster, ever. Not unless I have to step in for orphaned grandchildren or something. It's not required, and I'm not a bad person because I don't want to foster/adopt. I only ever wanted to raise my own children. You really oughtta walk that adoption/fostering talk before you make such statements. You haven't adopted or fostered yet...what's stopping you???
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Old 01-02-2007, 08:01 AM   #47
 
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It's not my place to judge what others do, but I do wish more people out there, whatever their fertility status, would consider adoption or fostering.

I'm not going to adopt or foster, ever. Not unless I have to step in for orphaned grandchildren or something. It's not required, and I'm not a bad person because I don't want to foster/adopt. I only ever wanted to raise my own children. You really oughtta walk that adoption/fostering talk before you make such statements. You haven't adopted or fostered yet...what's stopping you???
Of course it's not required, nor are you a bad person for not doing it, nor do I think people should do it if it is not something they are called to do. But I wish more people felt called to do it.

I will adopt or foster, God willing. We started with sponsored kids and we decided to have bio children first and then try to adopt. It takes time and money and they really scrutinize you, so we need to have our lives in order and we want parenting experience first. Nothing is stopping me - I'm still in my 20's so I have lots of time to do it.
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Old 01-02-2007, 08:05 AM   #48
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medussa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
It's not my place to judge what others do
But you did it anyway, by calling this woman's situation shameful.

I personally would not choose to become a mother at 67. But I won't bash her for her decision.

I wish that woman and her children the best.
I'm not judging her as a bad person or predicting her salvation or anything like that, and of course I want the best for families in any situation. But in my opinion, having in vitro at 67 is shameful, sorry. To me that's not a judgment. I realize others see it differently and that's fine.
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Old 01-02-2007, 08:18 AM   #49
 
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But in my opinion, having in vitro at 67 is shameful, sorry. To me that's not a judgment.

Shame is a societal judgment. And you are judging.
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Old 01-02-2007, 08:22 AM   #50
 
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Amneris, yes, you are judging her. As someone who is infertile, I have to tell you that until you've walked in someone else's shoes, you have no right to judge. And that's just what you're doing.
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:17 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medussa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
It's not my place to judge what others do
But you did it anyway, by calling this woman's situation shameful.

I personally would not choose to become a mother at 67. But I won't bash her for her decision.

I wish that woman and her children the best.
It's definitely judging the circumstances in which this woman chose to have children but I don't think it is inappropriate to make such judgments.

In fact, I think it's pretty inappropriate and dangerous to pretend that this sort of thing is okay.

I like to be as liberal and progressive sounding as the next gal, but there is something very wrong with what this woman chose to do and seems very silly for us not to admit that.

Would it be okay if she were 75 or 80 or 90 and decided to have a baby?
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:37 AM   #52
 
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wow 67 years old . i hope she has the energy to run after 2 toddlers.
i hope she gets lots of help .
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Old 01-02-2007, 09:52 AM   #53
 
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I can't get that worked up about this. I am FAR more concerned about the 13 and 14 year old girls who are getting pregnant, often in some really horrid circumstances like rape, incest, gang initiation, etc.
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:26 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
Quote:
Originally Posted by medussa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
It's not my place to judge what others do
But you did it anyway, by calling this woman's situation shameful.

I personally would not choose to become a mother at 67. But I won't bash her for her decision.

I wish that woman and her children the best.
I'm not judging her as a bad person or predicting her salvation or anything like that, and of course I want the best for families in any situation. But in my opinion, having in vitro at 67 is shameful, sorry. To me that's not a judgment. I realize others see it differently and that's fine.
So it's only judging if you are telling someone they are going to hell for something?

That's an awesome loophole!
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:30 AM   #55
 
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Originally Posted by PartyHair
I can't get that worked up about this. I am FAR more concerned about the 13 and 14 year old girls who are getting pregnant, often in some really horrid circumstances like rape, incest, gang initiation, etc.
Exactly. I just don't get people getting this upset about something like this. We have all this crime, gangs, drugs, war, mothers killing their babies in microwaves, etc, but it seems people are more concerned with pitbull ownership and having babies at too old an age.
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Old 01-02-2007, 10:42 AM   #56
 
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Originally Posted by Bailey422
Quote:
Originally Posted by PartyHair
I can't get that worked up about this. I am FAR more concerned about the 13 and 14 year old girls who are getting pregnant, often in some really horrid circumstances like rape, incest, gang initiation, etc.
Exactly. I just don't get people getting this upset about something like this. We have all this crime, gangs, drugs, war, mothers killing their babies in microwaves, etc, but it seems people are more concerned with pitbull ownership and having babies at too old an age.
Who says people aren't concerned about those things, too? Being concerned about one thing doesn't mean you can't also be concerned about other things....
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:13 AM   #57
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amneris
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Originally Posted by Bailey422
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Originally Posted by PartyHair
I can't get that worked up about this. I am FAR more concerned about the 13 and 14 year old girls who are getting pregnant, often in some really horrid circumstances like rape, incest, gang initiation, etc.
Exactly. I just don't get people getting this upset about something like this. We have all this crime, gangs, drugs, war, mothers killing their babies in microwaves, etc, but it seems people are more concerned with pitbull ownership and having babies at too old an age.
Who says people aren't concerned about those things, too? Being concerned about one thing doesn't mean you can't also be concerned about other things....
Absolutely! I think Bailey better read MY post! If you all only knew all the details of my upbringing, you would know how dangerous such a practice is. Let me put it this way...if I were growing up in the same situation today, I would likely be dead.

Not only this, but several of my son's friends are being raised by their grandparents, and believe me when I say it is very obvious that grandma and grandpa are neither in possession of adequate energy levels nor health to keep them in check. Nor can they relate to the issues and dangers these kids have to deal with today. They are completely out of touch--guess what: it's a significantly different world than it was 60 years ago.

Let's not take things out of context either...I don't think the average person walks around thinking about this issue constantly; however, someone posted a thread about it for discussion...hence the discussion about said topic.

It is unbelieveable to me that anyone even thinks this is an acceptable idea for one second. Think about the kids. You can't pick your parents, but odds are, if we could, no one would pick parents who are nearly 70 at birth--no one. Life is difficult eNOUGH!
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:26 AM   #58
 
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My mom did not discuss menstruation, sex, drugs, drinking with me. She smoked and allowed me to begin smoking at 17--when I finally asked her if it bothered her, she said no. I think that was my final cry for help, and she ignored it.

She was too out of touch and knew nothing about the latest drugs, pop culture influences, music, and behaviors of teens. She let us run completely wild. We NEVER had to ask permission to do anything. I would be gone for days at a time with my friends. She was completely intimidated by us. I exhibited every bad behavior you can think of and had no one to answer to. My friends thought it was great, but deep down, I knew it was a bad thing.

My mom's biggest concerns were her senior citizen lunches, bingo, Reno trips with her cronies. There was little food in the house--once, she was suddenly admitted to the hospital, and we had to live on what little was in the house because we had no access to money--if there was any. We survived on government cheese and cornmeal for days.

Her health began to crumble in our teens, and my dad was unhealthy as well--he died when I was 16. I see primarily elderly patients at work...the majority have way too many health issues to be raising young children and the rest mostly just complain about how the "golden years" suck due to generalized poor quality of life due to aches and pains.

Need I go on?
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:29 AM   #59
 
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Ghost Poster, I understand that your upbringing is coloring your opinion on this, and that is totally to be expected. However, to say that every similar situation is bound to be just like your experience is presuming a lot.

Do we have any idea of this woman's energy level? Her income level? Her ability to discipline? To love? To nourish a child's emotional needs? No. So why must we assume that her children will suffer just because she is older than what we consider to be normal?

And like so many others have said, you have no idea when or how you're going to die or when or if you'll be disabled. Life happens whether you're 16 or 67.
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Old 01-02-2007, 11:30 AM   #60
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~
My mom did not discuss menstruation, sex, drugs, drinking with me. She smoked and allowed me to begin smoking at 17--when I finally asked her if it bothered her, she said no. I think that was my final cry for help, and she ignored it.

She was too out of touch and knew nothing about the latest drugs, pop culture influences, music, and behaviors of teens. She let us run completely wild. We NEVER had to ask permission to do anything. I would be gone for days at a time with my friends. She was completely intimidated by us. I exhibited every bad behavior you can think of and had no one to answer to. My friends thought it was great, but deep down, I knew it was a bad thing.

My mom's biggest concerns were her senior citizen lunches, bingo, Reno trips with her cronies. There was little food in the house--once, she was suddenly admitted to the hospital, and we had to live on what little was in the house because we had no access to money--if there was any. We survived on government cheese and cornmeal for days.

Her health began to crumble in our teens, and my dad was unhealthy as well--he died when I was 16. I see primarily elderly patients at work...the majority have way too many health issues to be raising young children and the rest mostly just complain about how the "golden years" suck due to generalized poor quality of life due to aches and pains.

Need I go on?
So much of this is just bad parenting though, and can happen to a child of parents of ANY age.

My 36 year old sister-in-law refuses to discuss sex, drugs, smoking, or drinking with her children. She says they should just know right from wrong.

That has NOTHING to do with age.
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