SO wrong! 67-year-old mother gives birth to twins - Page 7

M2LR · 01-02-2007, 02:50 PM

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Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~

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Originally Posted by yagottaloveyacurls

Hey, you gotta find something positive every chance you get. This world is a friggin' mess.

(That, and it helps that I'm not pms'ing at the moment.

)

So very true!

Yagottaloveloveyacurls!

I'm just going to point out one other thing before I back out of this thread. I touched on two situations of grandparents raising grandchildren, so, I'm not just speaking about my own situation. These both happen to be right in my neighborhood. The boys are no longer invited into my home because they are too ill-behaved for my liking. Their grandparents are constantly showing up on my doorstep wondering where the boys are. One is spoiled and does horribly in school; the other is just kind of left to his own devices. Both sets of grandparents show a strong tendency toward spoiling the kids--not so much with material things, but by letting them get away with bad behavior. They don't have the energy or fortitude to back up their threats and punishments--I have witnessed it multiple times. Even my son is shocked at how the grandparents always welch on their punishments. My son is always allowed into their homes though their boys are not allowed into mine in what seems like an attempt to use him as a sitter--to keep their boys out of their hair for awhile. One or the other of them (the grandparents) is always out of commission due to health problems. Both boys can be heard out in the street cursing and screaming at their grandparents from time to time.

But, again, this can happen with bad parenting in general. Not just because the grandparents are raising the kids, know what I mean? Health issues can also happen to anyone, at any time.

~Ghost Poster~ · 01-02-2007, 02:55 PM

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

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Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~

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Originally Posted by Bailey422

Ghost Poster - I am not assuming the children will be happy. I'm just saying we can't jump to conclusions and assume they will have a bad life. Also, I don't think anyone is arguing in favor of this as a common practice. Some of us are just refusing to judge this particular woman and her decision. I don't think I would have a child after 40, and I certainly would not encourage anyone else to. All I am saying is that we can't say that this woman is a bad, selfish person who will end up being a horrible parent that will scar the children for life.

I'm sorry to keep singling your posts out, Bailey. I just really feel that you (and others, of course) don't understand the possible/likely ramifications of what this particular woman has done. I am speaking about her and what she has done specifically.

It's like saying that one person should support another's decision to begin smoking because not ALL smokers will contract lung cancer, emphysema, chronic bronchitis, heart disease or stroke. It's their decision alone, right? It doesn't affect anyone else, right?

Wrong on all counts. And this woman's decision for IVF and resultant twin births will affect just more than her. Like I have already said, the scope of which may not be know for years.

I don't think you're singling me out, and I'm not offended. I see where you are coming from, and you are certainly in a position to have a strong opinion on this topic. Maybe it's just the optimist in me, but I refuse to totally give up and say these children will definitely have bad lives, especially with how little information we have on this woman. I do understand the possible ramifications, but the actual results will depend on many factors, most of which we don't know. If this woman has a lot of close family (or perhaps a younger husband) who will be involved in the childrens' lives from the start, I think they will turn out alright even if their mother dies when they're young. If she is alone and hasn't provided for their futures, then I would wholeheartedly agree that this is a terrible situation. You may be right, she might be a selfish, irresponsible person. But I don't know that for sure, so I refuse to judge her decision without that information.

Too many ifs!!!

I don't usually make judgments without an adequate amount of information either. However, as with most things, one can use common sense, historical information, personal experience, and logic to make a determination on possible outcomes. And we all know how easily one situation very often sets the precedent for others to follow suit.

RedCatWaves · 01-02-2007, 03:00 PM

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I do think we can say she is selfish. She wants a child so she is having one regardless of what is best for the child. IMO that is selfish, but that is because I wholeheartedly think this is not a good situation for a child to be born into.

Everyone has children for selfish reasons. I know I did. Anyone who says they had other altruistic reasons is probably fooling themselves or lying. I wanted babies, so I had babies. They were for *ME*. Selfish selfish selfish...

I don't think we, as a society, should be encouraging any geriatric births, male or female. It's more than selfish...it's foolishly selfish.

~Ghost Poster~ · 01-02-2007, 03:05 PM

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Originally Posted by M2LR & Co.

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Originally Posted by ~Ghost Poster~

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Originally Posted by yagottaloveyacurls

Hey, you gotta find something positive every chance you get. This world is a friggin' mess.

(That, and it helps that I'm not pms'ing at the moment.

)

So very true!

Yagottaloveloveyacurls!

I'm just going to point out one other thing before I back out of this thread. I touched on two situations of grandparents raising grandchildren, so, I'm not just speaking about my own situation. These both happen to be right in my neighborhood. The boys are no longer invited into my home because they are too ill-behaved for my liking. Their grandparents are constantly showing up on my doorstep wondering where the boys are. One is spoiled and does horribly in school; the other is just kind of left to his own devices. Both sets of grandparents show a strong tendency toward spoiling the kids--not so much with material things, but by letting them get away with bad behavior. They don't have the energy or fortitude to back up their threats and punishments--I have witnessed it multiple times. Even my son is shocked at how the grandparents always welch on their punishments. My son is always allowed into their homes though their boys are not allowed into mine in what seems like an attempt to use him as a sitter--to keep their boys out of their hair for awhile. One or the other of them (the grandparents) is always out of commission due to health problems. Both boys can be heard out in the street cursing and screaming at their grandparents from time to time.

But, again, this can happen with bad parenting in general. Not just because the grandparents are raising the kids, know what I mean? Health issues can also happen to anyone, at any time.

:sigh: Where is that little headbanging smiley when you need it? Of course I already covered the bad parenting at any age issue! I am not as good a parent either when I come home from a hard day at work both physically and emotionally spent. Most people in their 70s operate at that lower energy and tolerance level constantly.

So are you denying that health risks go up SIGNIFICANTLY with advanced age????? That the stress of raising children can't up the risk even further???? Come on. Seriously! I work almost exclusively with senior citizens in the medical field! I know what I'm talking about!!! Even a HEALTHY 77-yr-old is probably relatively unhealthy when compared to a 37-yr-old!

Again I say...no logical basis for argument here.

~Ghost Poster~ · 01-02-2007, 03:13 PM

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Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

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I do think we can say she is selfish. She wants a child so she is having one regardless of what is best for the child. IMO that is selfish, but that is because I wholeheartedly think this is not a good situation for a child to be born into.

Everyone has children for selfish reasons. I know I did. Anyone who says they had other altruistic reasons is probably fooling themselves or lying. I wanted babies, so I had babies. They were for *ME*. Selfish selfish selfish...

I don't think we, as a society, should be encouraging any geriatric births, male or female. It's more than selfish...it's foolishly selfish.

That's it in a nutshell, RCW. Even if only one situation in a hundred turns out bad based solely on the advanced age of the parent(s)...it's one too many. Imagine if that one situation was your own life...how supportive would you be then? I'll bet you'd be wishing that someone had put a stop to it (the practice of geriatric birthing/parenting by choice) before your life was destroyed...I know I did.

medussa · 01-02-2007, 03:49 PM

I wonder about these extreme cases of women of very advanced ages conceiving through IVF. Have they all occured in other countries? One of the first cases I heard of, was in the Phillipines, where the woman lied about her age. The other one was a year or two ago, in Romania. I seem to recall another case in Italy, recently. This case was in Spain.

Any extreme cases like this in the US? I tried to google clinic age limits in this country, but couldn't bring up anything. There's definitely an age limit, but I can't seem to find it. Honestly, I don't see this as a trend. These are isolated cases that seem to be occuring abroad. So I'm not going to join the outcry just yet.

hayseedlady · 01-02-2007, 04:48 PM

Everyone has children for selfish reasons.

Does being drunk and nailing the wrong guy fall into this? I knew I shouldn't have had that last drink but I was only selfishly thinking of having a good time.

Oh boy then did I have a wake up call.

Then I had to forget myself and give everything I had to my child, not just money or security but my whole soul, strengths, spirit, youth and all my time. Children aren't something you can just have; you have to raise them, teach them, advise them and protect them. Child need to be raised and prepared to go into the world as competent adults. Children should never be an accessory to complement your lifestyle or to make a statement. Just because all your friends have one people shouldn't go out and get one because they are the new "in" thing.

I'm 35 and there is no way I'd even consider having another child, sometimes being infertile is a blessing.

RedCatWaves · 01-02-2007, 05:02 PM

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Does being drunk and nailing the wrong guy fall into this? I knew I shouldn't have had that last drink but I was only selfishly thinking of having a good time.

Oh boy then did I have a wake up call.

Then I had to forget myself and give everything I had to my child, not just money or security but my whole soul, strengths, spirit, youth and all my time.

Yes, that scenario is still selfish. You could have had an abortion OR you could have given the child up for adoption. But, you obviously wanted to keep that child in your life, so it was selfish. Even if it entails extra work and responsiblity, you chose that for yourself.

Selfish isn't necessarily a bad thing.

eccentric_kurlz · 01-28-2007, 12:54 PM

Looks like she lied to get her fertility treatments.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070128/...ain_old_mother

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LONDON - A 67-year-old woman who is believed to be the world's oldest new mother told a British Sunday newspaper she lied to a U.S. fertility clinic — saying she was 55 — to get treatment.

Carmela Bousada said in her first interview since she gave birth to twin boys on Dec. 29 that she sold her house in Spain to raise $59,000 to pay for in vitro fertilization at a California clinic, The News of the World reported.

"I think everyone should become a mother at the right time for them," Bousada said in a video of the interview provided to Associated Press Television News.

"Often circumstances put you between a rock and a hard place and maybe things shouldn't have been done in the way they were done but that was the only way to achieve the thing I had always dreamed of and I did it," she said.

Bousada turned 67 this month but said she told the Pacific Fertility Center in Los Angeles she was 55 — the clinic's cut off for treating single women, the report said. She said the clinic did not ask her for identification.

Dr. Vicken Sahakian, the clinic's medical director, confirmed late Saturday that he treated Bousada, but said clinic procedures would have required her to provide her passport.

"I did not know that she was 66," Sahakian told The Associated Press, declining to comment on her case further. "We do check identity."

Bousada now hopes to find a younger husband to help raise her two sons, Pau and Christian, the newspaper said.

The retired department store employee lived with her elderly mother for her entire life in Cadiz, in southern Spain. She hatched her plan to have children after her mother died, at an unspecified age, in 2005, the newspaper said.

She kept her plan secret from her family and when she finally told them she was two months pregnant, they thought she was joking.

"Yes, I am old of course, but if I live as long as my mom did, imagine, I could even have grandchildren," she said in the video.

She was hospitalized during her pregnancy after she collapsed in a supermarket, but said her health has been good since she delivered.

"When the doctors said they had to make an incision for the Caesarean, I told them, 'Make it really low so that I can still wear a bikini,'" Bousada was quoted as saying.

The twins, who were born seven weeks premature, remained in hospital for three weeks, but are now healthy and at home with Bousada, the report said.

Romanian citizen Adriana Iliescu gave birth to baby Eliza Maria in January 2005, also at the age of 66. Bousada was 130 days older than Iliescu when she gave birth.

gekko422 · 01-28-2007, 01:00 PM

I was just reading that article and something stuck out at me -

Bousada now hopes to find a younger husband to help raise her two sons, Pau and Christian, the newspaper said.

Eilonwy · 01-28-2007, 02:15 PM

You know, I do think it's wrong. One of my high school friends was conceived naturally when both her parents were in their early 40s (and she was the oldest child). By the time she graduated high school and went to college, she was having serious discussions about funeral arrangements with them, and they were starting to face heart surgery and other health issues. It was really far too much pressure for her, not to mention terrifying.

This is just my opinion, but I think it's wrong to have children when both parents are over 49. And it's irresponsible if only one parent is over 49, anyway, because of the genetic risks.

medussa · 01-28-2007, 06:21 PM

Someone is lying here. I can't believe that a California fertility clinic failed to check for proof of identity/age. This did not happen at some clinic in a developing country. I went through fertility treatment with my second child and the two clinics I went to, in NY, were downright militant about following rules and protocol. I had to produce a copy of my driver's license before major procedures and my ID band was checked by at least two people beforehand.

I honestly think this woman produced false documentation.

M2LR · 01-28-2007, 08:50 PM

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Originally Posted by gekko422

I was just reading that article and something stuck out at me -

Bousada now hopes to find a younger husband to help raise her two sons, Pau and Christian, the newspaper said.

I heard this statement on the news this morning, and I had the same reaction. Yes, let's have the kids then find someone younger to help raise them.

Yoly · 01-29-2007, 07:25 AM

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Originally Posted by M2LR & Co.

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Originally Posted by gekko422

I was just reading that article and something stuck out at me -

Bousada now hopes to find a younger husband to help raise her two sons, Pau and Christian, the newspaper said.

I heard this statement on the news this morning, and I had the same reaction. Yes, let's have the kids then find someone younger to help raise them.

I thought the same thing. People are free to choose what they want but, to me this is another thing which shows just how irresponsible she is. No, no one is ever truly finacially ready for a child. But damn to be 65 have not one but two new borns and no other financial support is just stupid IMO.

solange · 01-29-2007, 08:19 AM

When I read the article I got the feeling that she had the kids so that she'd have someone to care for her in her old age as she did for her mother.

She seems to be very irrational and selfish.

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No, no one is ever truly finacially ready for a child.

Don't agree with this. There are people who are wealthy or work/plan such that they are ready for these financial responsibilities.