Curlyminx

I had never seen that until I started working for a catering company and worked a couple of rich white country clubs during the holidays. I indeed saw little white kids dressed up as indians and pilgrims after coming from their thanksgiving performances.

I was shocked to say the least.

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Guide18

It was when I was a kid back in the Dark Ages, but I hope things are a bit more enlightened now.

Nej

I think it happens in the US. Or maybe I just watch too many movies ...

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frau

i think it's fairly common in the united states or used to be.
yeah, tons of videos on youtube.

i guess it's a tough question to answer. who's view should we take?

Amneris

Any Americans doing that are just as ignorant and clueless as this couple, I'll agree with that. Maybe even worse because they're actually dressing up as an oppressed people. At least this wedding wasn't done in blackface.

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rainshower

i don't know who does that. i'm 40 and we never acted out anything like that, in or out of school.

our children were taught by us and by their schools the real events that inspired the thanksgiving holiday. we celebrate thanksgiving, but not with early america in mind; we celebrate our thanks for all that we have, our health, etc., and enjoy being with family and having a couple of days off from work and school.

both our kids did create the typical preschool turkeys by tracing their hands and then coloring each finger in as feathers, but that's about it. i don't know now offensive that could be to anyone.

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redcelticcurls

We did it every year in Elementary school. Mostly we dressed up as Pilgrims for lunch.

They still do this in my hometown, judging by newspaper photos. I don't know what kind of stories/lessons go on with it today though as opposed to the 70s, which was when I was in school.

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Dedachan

This reminded me of a scene from one of my favourite movies as a kid (even then, I was partial to dark humour ):

YouTube - ‪Addams Family Thanksgiving‬‏

ursula

I don't know about that. I mean, there's probably no point in quantifying racism--neither one is acceptable--but I think this wedding takes the cake. As someone in the original comments pointed out, they hired real black people to participate in their imperialist fantasy and basically serve as historical props (as the photos make clear). Someone else pointed out that black people were also visible in the photos hung up on the walls depicting historical scenes of colonialist oppression, but I wasn't able to make them out.

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Amneris

True, but this is South Africa, so it's very unlikely serving staff would be anything but Black. A wealthy Black person getting married would likely have all Black servers as well. I am from the Caribbean and all servants there are Black, including in other Black peoples' homes. Having Black serving staff isn't a racist act in and of itself - it provides needed employment to people - but it does point to troubling racialized class/wealth/education gaps in a country. And pictures like that are everywhere in former colonies as well. Had they had a normal wedding with no theme, it would have been a wealthy white couple having a nice wedding with Black staff, which happens everywhere - probably even in the US. The couple doesn't really control the staff at the venue. The issue for me is really just the theme and the romanticization of an issue that is about the denial of humanity and the telling of lies about history.

Though if they are responsible for putting the red fezzes on the servants then maybe there is more to it than that. As to qualifying racism, yes, I agree with you that that was an error on my part and I didn't really mean it literally.

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legends

I think it's still pretty common in elementary schools. My nephew's preschool had the kids dress up as pilgrims and Native Americans and sing "10 Little Indians."

I kid you not.

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Amneris

Wow. Canada is more enlightened than that on aboriginal issues. We have a long way to go but at least we have got rid of those kinds of things. We really don't use the term "Indian" either as it is considered inaccurate and anachronistic. Some aboriginal people still use it themselves but it would get the side-eye if anyone else did. I'm always surprised to see the term used officially in the US.

People still want to brush aside the history and claims of indigenous peoples, and that is also a legacy of colonialism so these two issues are very much related.

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rainshower

after a quick search on google about racism in canada and its native peoples, i will agree with you that canada does have a long way to go ... about as long as the u.s. has to go where racism is concerned.

canada seems to have similar stories of racism among youth today toward indigenous peoples, native people and their struggles, political figures making racial slurs and backtracking/apologizing, etc. we see/hear the same type of stuff here too.

it doesn't sound like canada is any more enlightened than the u.s. is where its native people are concerned.

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Amneris

Sure, all of that is true, but we have at least got out of the 1950s in that we don't dress up as them or call them "Indians" in polite society. Politically there is a lot of work to do, and socially as well, but there is at least a budding awareness of the humanity and rights of aboriginal people in basic institutions - schools have begun teaching their history and would not make kids sing 10 little Indians.

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SpaghettiHead

They still do this in our elementary schools too. I remember dressing as an "Indian" when I was in elementary around Thanksgiving, and feeling so pretty in my ensemble. As far as whether we were taught the correct history...I don't remember....but doubtful.

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Jess the Mess

They are being taught a more accurate history than 20 years ago. It's not completely accurate (my kids are 10 and 8 so I only know about el school right now) but much better than when I was in school.

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rainshower

what i was hoping would be understood is that when your nation has a heaping steaming stinking pile of racist sh1t within its borders, it doesn't make sense to point out your neighboring nation's similar heaping steaming stinking pile of racist sh1t within its borders and call it offensive. putting a red ribbon around a heaping steaming stinking pile of racist sh1t when in "polite society" doesn't fool people into believing that it's a pretty package. people still know it's a heaping steaming stinking pile of racist sh1t; they are probably confused about why anyone would think the red ribbon makes it look better.

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Amneris

My point wasn't to defend Canada's record on aboriginal peoples, but to say that EVEN IN a country where aboriginal people face real and serious barriers, we know better than to dress up as them and sing 10 little Indians and call them "Indians" and we have at least slowly started to talk about their history and culture in a meaningful way. EVEN IN a country with a "pile of *****" people have realized that that is not an appropriate way to act, so there is no excuse for our neighbours not to realize it too. Some of the racist legacy will take generations to unpack but that's a really easy thing everyone can do right now without too much effort.

Just like race relations between those of European and African descent and ending the legacy of colonialism have a long, long way to go whether you're talking UK, South Africa, US or Canada, but it's pretty easy NOT to have a "colonial Africa" wedding. Lots of other racist things have happened but this one gets special scrutiny and contempt because it's so over the top, just like the pilgrims and Indians thing is.

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mrspoppers

Nobody around here has sung 10 Little Indians or sat Indian style in school since before my nieces were in school. They're in their early 20s so you do the math. They grew up singing 10 Little Girls and sitting cross legged. Talking about Indians and pilgrims being great friends went out the window with Columbus Day.

Josephine

I've never seen it myself but I believe it's common. Not until recently, many sports logos were indians (including my own atlanta braves). There was an Everyone Love Raymond episode that had it also.