critical thinking & GOP talking points - Page 2

JillH410 · 09-21-2011, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afrosheenqueen

From Mark Cuban's (owner of the Dallas Mavericks) blog

Bust your ass and get rich.

Make a boatload of money. Pay your taxes. Lots of taxes. Hire people. Train people. Pay people. Spend money on rent, equipment, services. Pay more taxes.
When you make a sh*tload of money. Do something positive with it. If you are smart enough to make it, you will be smart enough to know where to put it to work.

I don’t care what anyone says. Being rich is a good thing. Not just in the obvious sense of benefiting you and your family, but in the broader sense. Profits are not a zero sum game. The more you make the more of a financial impact you can have.

I’m not against government involvement in times of need. I am for recognizing that big public companies will continue to cut jobs in an effort to prop up stock prices, which in turn stimulates the need for more government involvement. Every cut job by the big companies extracts a cost on the American people in one way or another.

Entrepreneurs are needed to create and grow companies to absorb those people in new jobs. If entrepreneurs don’t create those jobs, the government ends up having to spend more money to help them one way or another.

So be Patriotic. Go out there and get rich.

Get so obnoxiously rich that when that tax bill comes , your first thought will be to choke on how big a check you have to write. Your 2nd thought will be “what a great problem to have”, and your 3rd should be a recognition that in paying your taxes you are helping to support millions of Americans that are not as fortunate as you.

In these times of “The Great Recession” we shouldn’t be trying to shift the benefits of wealth behind some curtain. We should be celebrating and encouraging people to make as much money as they can. Profits equal tax money. While some people might find it distasteful to pay taxes. I don’t. I find it Patriotic.

I’m not saying that the government’s use of tax money is the most efficient use of our hard-earned capital. It obviously is not. In a perfect world, there would be a better option. We don’t live in a perfect world. We don’t live in a perfect time. We live in a time where the government plays a big role in an effort to help lead us out this Great Recession. That’s reality.

So I will repeat my point. Get out there and make a boatload of money. Enjoy the sh*t out your money. Pay your taxes.

It’s the most Patriotic thing you can do.

Loved this. Had to share it on FB. The wall street post was a little over my head as I don't know much about trading and what not.

Boomygrrl · 09-21-2011, 10:32 AM

Thanks for starting this thread. I have a lot of loved ones (hubby included) and FB friends who are conservative. In theory, I understand why they believe they do...in practice, I feel like shaking them and asking them "can't you see that trickle down economics isn't working?" With cut-backs, lay-offs, out-sourcing...CEOs still profiting while watching everyone else fall apart, how can one be cheering for the rich to pay less taxes? We are in a crisis and the middle class is overly spent (both in money and stress) right now, and the poor is getting less help and less opportunity to help themselves.

Unfortunately, I don't see the Democrats offering better solutions. I know a lot has to do with the Republicans stopping them every step of the way...but jeeze...when Democrats had an overwhelming majority (before mid-term elections), they should've played a more aggressive role. They did not. I am disappointed in both sides.
The Republicans don't care and aren't afraid to admit it; the Democrats say they care but really don't do anything about it. Its frustrating!
We don't have big business to help us (in spite of what Repubs think); we don't have government to help us. I consider myself lucky that I'm employed in a mediocre paying job. Are we just waiting for the other shoe to fall?

Concerning Rick Perry and the HPV immunizations....he did not do this because he cares about girls or because he has a less conservative and more passionate view about sexual behavior...he did this because he is in bed with the pharmaceutical company that makes the immunization. Its all self-interest...no critical thinking needed there.

JillH410 · 09-21-2011, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomygrrl

Concerning Rick Perry and the HPV immunizations....he did not do this because he cares about girls or because he has a less conservative and more passionate view about sexual behavior...he did this because he is in bed with the pharmaceutical company that makes the immunization. Its all self-interest...no critical thinking needed there.

Agreed. But it's still horse poo.

roseannadana · 09-21-2011, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja dog

FACT CHECK: Are rich taxed less than secretaries? - Yahoo! News

I think this non-partisan article explains the reasons behind many of the discrepancies.

I also hope it will prevent the name-calling that political posts on NC sometimes evoke.

I read that article the other day but the bolded part bugs me:

"There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million"

It just seems to me that there should be more than 237,000 households in the US that have incomes above $1 million. According to this article on money.cnn/ , there were 8.5 MILLION households in the US that were worth at least a million dollars in 2010.
U.S. millionaires population expanded by 8% in 2010 - Mar. 16, 2011

So, unless I'm reading it wrong, it appears that there is a very large group of millionaires who have so many tax shelters, tax breaks and deductions, that their total adjusted income for tax purposes is below the million dollar mark.

It makes my head hurt.

Nallia · 09-21-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseannadana

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninja dog

FACT CHECK: Are rich taxed less than secretaries? - Yahoo! News

I think this non-partisan article explains the reasons behind many of the discrepancies.

I also hope it will prevent the name-calling that political posts on NC sometimes evoke.

I read that article the other day but the bolded part bugs me:

"There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. But that's less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million"

It just seems to me that there should be more than 237,000 households in the US that have incomes above $1 million. According to this article on money.cnn/ , there were 8.5 MILLION households in the US that were worth at least a million dollars in 2010.
U.S. millionaires population expanded by 8% in 2010 - Mar. 16, 2011

So, unless I'm reading it wrong, it appears that there is a very large group of millionaires who have so many tax shelters, tax breaks and deductions, that their total adjusted income for tax purposes is below the million dollar mark.

It makes my head hurt.

Being worth $1 Million isn't the same thing as having an annual income of over $1 Million, though. Most people worth that much don't actually make that much every year.

roseannadana · 09-21-2011, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

Being worth $1 Million isn't the same thing as having an annual income of over $1 Million, though. Most people worth that much don't actually make that much every year.

yes, I realize that but the discrepancy is striking 237,000 income vs 8.5 million net worth.

Nallia · 09-21-2011, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseannadana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

Being worth $1 Million isn't the same thing as having an annual income of over $1 Million, though. Most people worth that much don't actually make that much every year.

yes, I realize that but the discrepancy is striking 237,000 income vs 8.5 million net worth.

True, the 237,000 does sound really low. I added an extra 0 on the number in my head when I was thinking about it earlier. lol

roseannadana · 09-21-2011, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseannadana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

Being worth $1 Million isn't the same thing as having an annual income of over $1 Million, though. Most people worth that much don't actually make that much every year.

yes, I realize that but the discrepancy is striking 237,000 income vs 8.5 million net worth.

True, the 237,000 does sound really low. I added an extra 0 on the number in my head when I was thinking about it earlier. lol

Yeah, that's what I was thinking! I mean there must be that many in CA and NY alone with incomes about 1 mil.

thelio · 09-22-2011, 05:36 AM

DC just raised income tax on the wealthest residents. DC has had its budget balanced since the 90's. Maybe the federal government should follow suit.

I'm no where near rich, but I wouldn't mind paying more tax if I didnt have to worry about paying for medical insurance, such high college tuition, and having to save just in case something happens (cross my paws that nothing happens). I dont know why someone making 6 figures a year should mind. Maybe if they didnt live in a 6 bedroom, 6 bath house for 3 people, or have two cars for eveyone living in the house, or go on shopping sprees everyweek, or vacation for months at a time they would see they have plenty of money to live on.

09-22-2011, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelio

DC just raised income tax on the wealthest residents. DC has had its budget balanced since the 90's. Maybe the federal government should follow suit.

I'm no where near rich, but I wouldn't mind paying more tax if I didnt have to worry about paying for medical insurance, such high college tuition, and having to save just in case something happens (cross my paws that nothing happens). I dont know why someone making 6 figures a year should mind. Maybe if they didnt live in a 6 bedroom, 6 bath house for 3 people, or have two cars for eveyone living in the house, or go on shopping sprees everyweek, or vacation for months at a time they would see they have plenty of money to live on.

I know what you mean. I've observed that my co-workers in Europe go on vacations that seem extravagant to me. I realized that they don't have to worry about saving money for the things we save money for -- health disasters, college, retirement. These things are largely or totally paid for by the government through their taxes. Even though they pay a LOT more in taxes, they end up having more disposable income. I think I could get used to that.

ninja dog · 09-22-2011, 07:32 AM

In a political climate where people cheer at the mention of the hypothetical death of the uninsured, I don't see that happening.^

ninja dog · 09-22-2011, 07:53 AM

wild~hair · 09-22-2011, 09:53 AM

Springcurl · 09-22-2011, 09:56 AM

I was JUST bout to post that, Wild Hair!

Boomygrrl · 09-22-2011, 10:42 AM

This thread and a recent discussion with my HR representative got me thinking "Nothing stands between a man and his money."
Most of the problems we're talking about here is rich men (yes, there are rich women...but the discrepancy is outrageous) who do not want to part with their money. Its like the kid that says "my toy!!!" "mine, mine, mine!!" The problem is that in addition to greed, we have a lot of suffering out here...and they had the luxury to be greedy off of our backs.

My HR representative and I were going over my upcoming FMLA leave. I'm taking 12 weeks off for the birth of my baby. Legally, I'm allowed that. I have 12 weeks of sick leave, I have 4 weeks of vacation (although I'm about to earn 2 more weeks). Rather than use up all of my sick leave (or most of it), I'm only allowed to use 6 weeks of it. I have to use my vacation and holidays to make up for the remaining 6 weeks. So, I'll have a total of 6 weeks of vacation soon and there will be 5 days of holidays coming up (2 Thanksgiving, 2 Christmas, 1 New Years). I will use only 6 weeks of sick leave (although I have 12), 5 weeks of vacation, and one week of holidays (5 days).
So, I'll be left with 6 weeks (maybe more...as I'm due for an additional amount soon) of sick and only 1 week of vacation when this is over.
I know I shouldn't complain. They are only allowed to let me have the time off (It could be un-paid)...but my HR representative said that it used to be 8 weeks of sick leave if you have a C-section (which I'm having). The powers that be (she said "you know its the men who make this decision that have no idea whats involved in giving birth") changed it.
Grrrr! Since most people don't use all there sick, I know its more economical for them to limit this, so it cuts into our vacation.

I'll tell you this...I'm going to have a few more "sick" days this upcoming year than I'm used to having (I have a baby after all...it will probably be legitimate anyways).

Grrr!
Oh well. I will have this pool of sick leave that will barely go touched and only one week of vacation that will have to last me for awhile.

thelio · 09-22-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuZenGuide

Quote:

Originally Posted by thelio

DC just raised income tax on the wealthest residents. DC has had its budget balanced since the 90's. Maybe the federal government should follow suit.

I'm no where near rich, but I wouldn't mind paying more tax if I didnt have to worry about paying for medical insurance, such high college tuition, and having to save just in case something happens (cross my paws that nothing happens). I dont know why someone making 6 figures a year should mind. Maybe if they didnt live in a 6 bedroom, 6 bath house for 3 people, or have two cars for eveyone living in the house, or go on shopping sprees everyweek, or vacation for months at a time they would see they have plenty of money to live on.

I know what you mean. I've observed that my co-workers in Europe go on vacations that seem extravagant to me. I realized that they don't have to worry about saving money for the things we save money for -- health disasters, college, retirement. These things are largely or totally paid for by the government through their taxes. Even though they pay a LOT more in taxes, they end up having more disposable income. I think I could get used to that.

Excatly!! Most of my pay check goes to insurance premiums, putting money aside for emergences, and college tutition. Insurance helps lower costs, but i still have co-pays for a lot of stuff. take my insurance premiums as taxes, take away those co-pays, and i'll be happy!

RedCatWaves · 09-22-2011, 12:30 PM

I love Elizabeth Warren. Truly. Massachusettes, please vote her into the senate. We NEED her.

afrosheenqueen · 09-22-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseannadana

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

Quote:

Originally Posted by roseannadana

yes, I realize that but the discrepancy is striking 237,000 income vs 8.5 million net worth.

True, the 237,000 does sound really low. I added an extra 0 on the number in my head when I was thinking about it earlier. lol

Yeah, that's what I was thinking! I mean there must be that many in CA and NY alone with incomes about 1 mil.

What? 237,000?? No way. There's a lot more tax cheats than I thought.

xcptnl · 09-22-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCatWaves

I love Elizabeth Warren. Truly. Massachusettes, please vote her into the senate. We NEED her.

I wish it were my district.

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ninja dog · 09-22-2011, 03:13 PM

The chances of that happening in my district are so low I don't even want to start imagining the possibility.^