Would it be wrong to come up with a list of topics appropriate for dinner convo? - Page 3

nynaeve77 · 11-21-2011, 06:58 PM

I can't answer for springcurl, but it seems to me that a child could easily resent having their mom miss their events because she's helping other people. Of course it's good to do those things, but if I were a kid, I'd feel that my mom thought others were more important than her own family if she made a habit of not being there for plays, parties, etc.

Springcurl · 11-21-2011, 07:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Amneris

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

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Originally Posted by rainshower

is there no one in your circle who shares her interest in those topics?

To be clear, we ALL share her interest in these topics. We all agree with them. But we were raised with them, fed them with dinner every night, woke up hearing her talk on the phone about them. She'd miss family events because she was too busy writing grants. Dragged my younger sister around from protest to protest when she was 1 to 13 years old.

It's not not that we don't share her interests. We do. We just don't want to live them any more.

I kind of love the bold! That is what I strive for for my kids. What about it is a problem for you guys (and I'm asking sincerely, because to me, that's an AWESOME upbringing for a kid, but if it isn't perceived that way by the kids as adults, then I would want to be aware of why.)

because she ignored her children for her causes. She'd keep my sister out (at 6 years old) until midnight because she was at meetings. We'd have random homeless people sleeping on our living room floor because they were kicked out of shelters for rules infractions. We'd have strangers joining us at Thanksgiving because they had no place to go and if she actually thought to ask our permission and we said no, we'd be the bad guys.

Raising your child to be aware of politics and talk about politics is one thing and be politically active is one thing. Actually neglecting your child (and I say "child" because I didn't move in with her until I was 17, I really mean my sister) because your causes are more important than your child is a totally different story.

it's like the song "Easy to be Hard" from the musical "Hair."

Springcurl · 11-21-2011, 07:01 PM

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Originally Posted by nynaeve77

I can't answer for springcurl, but it seems to me that a child could easily resent having their mom miss their events because she's helping other people. Of course it's good to do those things, but if I were a kid, I'd feel that my mom thought others were more important than her own family if she made a habit of not being there for plays, parties, etc.

Yes. And my mom actually does think other people are more important than her immediate family.

Amneris · 11-21-2011, 07:34 PM

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Originally Posted by nynaeve77

I can't answer for springcurl, but it seems to me that a child could easily resent having their mom miss their events because she's helping other people. Of course it's good to do those things, but if I were a kid, I'd feel that my mom thought others were more important than her own family if she made a habit of not being there for plays, parties, etc.

Oh. Yes, obviously that would not be a good balance. I didn't get from spring that that was the case, but I could see that as a recipe for resentment. I wouldn't ever do that - my kids take a higher priority, and the whole point of being socially active is to do it for them.

rainshower · 11-22-2011, 06:38 AM

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

because she ignored her children for her causes. She'd keep my sister out (at 6 years old) until midnight because she was at meetings. We'd have random homeless people sleeping on our living room floor because they were kicked out of shelters for rules infractions. We'd have strangers joining us at Thanksgiving because they had no place to go and if she actually thought to ask our permission and we said no, we'd be the bad guys.

Raising your child to be aware of politics and talk about politics is one thing and be politically active is one thing. Actually neglecting your child (and I say "child" because I didn't move in with her until I was 17, I really mean my sister) because your causes are more important than your child is a totally different story.

that is extreme. and there is nothing wonderful or great about having to grow up like that.

to the bold, it is about having balance. having convictions or a passion about something is different than having something take over your life and negatively affect others' lives who don't share the same intensity of your convictions or passion.

i hope your holiday get togethers will be better this year.

rileyb · 11-22-2011, 07:31 AM

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Originally Posted by rainshower

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

because she ignored her children for her causes. She'd keep my sister out (at 6 years old) until midnight because she was at meetings. We'd have random homeless people sleeping on our living room floor because they were kicked out of shelters for rules infractions. We'd have strangers joining us at Thanksgiving because they had no place to go and if she actually thought to ask our permission and we said no, we'd be the bad guys.

Raising your child to be aware of politics and talk about politics is one thing and be politically active is one thing. Actually neglecting your child (and I say "child" because I didn't move in with her until I was 17, I really mean my sister) because your causes are more important than your child is a totally different story.

that is extreme. and there is nothing wonderful or great about having to grow up like that.

to the bold, it is about having balance. having convictions or a passion about something is different than having something take over your life and negatively affect others' lives who don't share the same intensity of your convictions or passion.

Agreed, and as a parent, you should share your passion for activism and involvement in community to set an example and to teach your children to find the things that they are passionate about and to think independently about the causes they find compelling - not just to force your causes down their throats.

Amneris · 11-22-2011, 07:58 AM

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Originally Posted by rileyb

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Originally Posted by rainshower

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

because she ignored her children for her causes. She'd keep my sister out (at 6 years old) until midnight because she was at meetings. We'd have random homeless people sleeping on our living room floor because they were kicked out of shelters for rules infractions. We'd have strangers joining us at Thanksgiving because they had no place to go and if she actually thought to ask our permission and we said no, we'd be the bad guys.

Raising your child to be aware of politics and talk about politics is one thing and be politically active is one thing. Actually neglecting your child (and I say "child" because I didn't move in with her until I was 17, I really mean my sister) because your causes are more important than your child is a totally different story.

that is extreme. and there is nothing wonderful or great about having to grow up like that.

to the bold, it is about having balance. having convictions or a passion about something is different than having something take over your life and negatively affect others' lives who don't share the same intensity of your convictions or passion.

Agreed, and as a parent, you should share your passion for activism and involvement in community to set an example and to teach your children to find the things that they are passionate about and to think independently about the causes they find compelling - not just to force your causes down their throats.

Absolutely. I wasn't seeing where this was the case, but yeah, of course - the whole point of community involvement is that your kids are also your community, not also-rans. Most people I admire who are activists came from activist families.

Josephine · 11-22-2011, 09:47 AM

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Originally Posted by nynaeve77

I can't answer for springcurl, but it seems to me that a child could easily resent having their mom miss their events because she's helping other people. Of course it's good to do those things, but if I were a kid, I'd feel that my mom thought others were more important than her own family if she made a habit of not being there for plays, parties, etc.

Yes, I dated a guy who's dad was like this. I don't think you should have kids if you don't put them first, but that's just me.

M2LR · 11-22-2011, 10:25 AM

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Originally Posted by Lotsawaves

I don't think she is doomed. She just needs to stand up and say "Hey, mom I'm not inviting you because you make any family/friend event your stage and you don't care to have your event ruined. Mom needs a reality check and she needs to grow up. She then will have the option of coming and being an adult or staying home. It should be her option. If she shows up and starts her crap, show her the door. You warned her beforehand. Like I said before, stop enabling this woman.

Okay, I think this is pretty harsh. This is her MOTHER. She is an adult, she just has her own topics that she finds interesting, or might spark conversation. Kick her mom out from Thanksgiving dinner, seriously? You'd be okay with one of your kids doing this to you?

I think warning others (if they've been there before, they know how mom is), is a good idea. Or, even before people get there, ask mom to try and keep conversation light and upbeat, as she (the OP) remembers how hurt she was last year, the hurt can be avoided etc.

I think short of causing family drama by just not inviting her, there are things that can be done. However, if mom has pretty much always been like this, even not inviting her won't make her change and just cause more hurt.

CGNYC · 11-22-2011, 11:35 AM

If a parent is just self-centered or rude, it's fine to edit them from your lives so that you can enjoy yourself. A parent who gets drunk and embarrasses her children in front of their friends or freaks out the grand kids is a good candidate for that. Just being related is not reason enough to put up with someone who is willfully an ass. Forget that.

However, and forgive me if I'm crossing a line, SC has posted about her mom over the years and I get the feeling she has some mental illness issues going on (the pet hoarding from years back, etc) and that's different. I don't think it's ok to oust a parent for being inconveniently unhealthy in one way or another, assuming they're not violent or abusive.

M2LR · 11-22-2011, 12:22 PM

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Originally Posted by CGNYC

If a parent is just self-centered or rude, it's fine to edit them from your lives so that you can enjoy yourself. A parent who gets drunk and embarrasses her children in front of their friends or freaks out the grand kids is a good candidate for that. Just being related is not reason enough to put up with someone who is willfully an ass. Forget that.

However, and forgive me if I'm crossing a line, SC has posted about her mom over the years and I get the feeling she has some mental illness issues going on (the pet hoarding from years back, etc) and that's different. I don't think it's ok to oust a parent for being inconveniently unhealthy in one way or another, assuming they're not violent or abusive.

I totally agree with you. If there is alcoholism, abuse, children being hurt, or mental illnesses that cannot be tolerated at a large family meal, then ok. I get it. I would probably have a conversation about them not being invited. Both my husband and I have had to deal with situations like this in the past, not inviting people, or having our parents not invite certain people, etc. So, I do understand that part.

I thought she was just referring to conversation topics, though and to me, that's not a reason to eliminate them from Thanksgiving when you have an otherwise decent (not perfect, but you're civil) relationship with them.

Springcurl · 11-22-2011, 01:58 PM

Is she mentally ill? She's got issues for sure. But probably the only way I'd ever say, "You're not invited to my Thanksgiving," is if she were to invite my aunt. I know they're still close even after all the isht my aunt did to me. that I wouldn't tolerate.

CGNYC · 11-22-2011, 02:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

Is she mentally ill? She's got issues for sure. But probably the only way I'd ever say, "You're not invited to my Thanksgiving," is if she were to invite my aunt. I know they're still close even after all the isht my aunt did to me. that I wouldn't tolerate.

I don't have any idea and I don't say that to be insulting or dismissive. Things you have said in the past have made me think there's something going on besides just being selfish or self centered.

Springcurl · 11-22-2011, 02:21 PM

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Originally Posted by CGNYC

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

Is she mentally ill? She's got issues for sure. But probably the only way I'd ever say, "You're not invited to my Thanksgiving," is if she were to invite my aunt. I know they're still close even after all the isht my aunt did to me. that I wouldn't tolerate.

I don't have any idea and I don't say that to be insulting or dismissive. Things you have said in the past have made me think there's something going on besides just being selfish or self centered.

No, I get what you mean and don't think you're being insulting. I mean, she would benefit from therapy that's for sure.

geeky · 11-25-2011, 08:56 PM

So how did it go Springcurl? Nosy curlies want to know.

Springcurl · 11-25-2011, 10:17 PM

It went very well. Mostly we just all admired the baby.

By the way, i think I posted a picture of her when she was born (Christmas Day). Here's a little update. She was kind of a miserable little tyke when she was born to about 7 months old. Don't get me wrong, we all adore her, but I think she just was not happy being an immobile infant. Now that she is crawling and pulling herself up, she's in a MUCH better mood all the time.

Here is what I call the quintessential Evelyn picture. This is what Evie pretty much looked like 75% of the time until she learned how to crawl.

Now she looks like this:

roseannadana · 11-25-2011, 10:19 PM

She has a monkey on her butt.

She's adorable!

CGNYC · 11-25-2011, 10:47 PM

She's so cute! I love her angry face!

Springcurl · 11-25-2011, 11:17 PM

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Originally Posted by CGNYC

She's so cute! I love her angry face!

I call it her "that woman is wearing white after labor day" face.

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Lotsawaves · 11-26-2011, 08:45 AM

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Originally Posted by M2LR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotsawaves

I don't think she is doomed. She just needs to stand up and say "Hey, mom I'm not inviting you because you make any family/friend event your stage and you don't care to have your event ruined. Mom needs a reality check and she needs to grow up. She then will have the option of coming and being an adult or staying home. It should be her option. If she shows up and starts her crap, show her the door. You warned her beforehand. Like I said before, stop enabling this woman.

Okay, I think this is pretty harsh. This is her MOTHER. She is an adult, she just has her own topics that she finds interesting, or might spark conversation. Kick her mom out from Thanksgiving dinner, seriously? You'd be okay with one of your kids doing this to you?

I think warning others (if they've been there before, they know how mom is), is a good idea. Or, even before people get there, ask mom to try and keep conversation light and upbeat, as she (the OP) remembers how hurt she was last year, the hurt can be avoided etc.

I think short of causing family drama by just not inviting her, there are things that can be done. However, if mom has pretty much always been like this, even not inviting her won't make her change and just cause more hurt.

Yea, what I said was pretty harsh. I just get tired of one person messing it up for others. They control the whole situation which shouldn't be the case, even if they are family. I know it's her mom. Of course, that should be taken into consideration, but it sounds to me that her mom doesn't take anyone else into consideration.

Springcurl, I'm happy that your Thanksgiving went good.