I Might Take A Beating For This...

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Some people will only become responsible when they lose their safety net. Why be careful when you always have someone to catch you?

I don't think collateral will do a whole lot of good. If they can guilt you out of money, they can guilt you out of that just as easily. IME with people like that is they don't get that attached to material possessions anyways. Acquiring sure, but keeping them just doesn't seem important.

I've known several people like that. Our current worst one is SIL. She's so bad even homelessness wouldn't be enough for us to bail her out anymore. She's pulled that too many times in the past. Now she has kids. She been on and off straightening up since. Discussions about taking her kids have come up more than once this year.
how far do you go to help a sibling?
As far as you've already gone. No further.

Code:
 
Don't lend him any money.
No MAS.

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Wile, I don't know what is going on with your brother right now, becuz you aren't giving any details. I would have to guess that he can't provide gifts for his children for Xmas. I agree with others that you and your parents enable him, but I think most of what you all do are for his children and I truly understand that. He's has an ace in the whole. If it was just him maybe you would all let him fall on his face and learn a lesson. Maybe not your parents then you would enable him, so he wouldn't hurt them. Don't you see what a player he is?

Bottom line...No more loans to him. Give his children gifts, food, clothing whatever they need, but don't let him take the credit.

I don't think you are on a power trip with all this. I think you are looking at his kid's happiness and not wanting your parents to be burdened, since they are older and your mom is in bad health. It's a tough call and you always know I'm here for you.

I'm amazed that your "P" isn't fed up with all this. I don't think I could deal with this family situation when it wasn't my family. Maybe, think about your marriage and the impact this all may be having on it.
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From Michael Berg:

Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
I gotta agree with CGNYC on this one.

I have a brother that I areas one that can do no wrong, but over the years he's made several extremely poor choices, as has his wife. My parents do not bail him out (that I know of), though my dad was talking about some idea about bro walking away from his house and my dad "selling" him their home. I was pissed, told them as much and it hasn't been mentioned.

At any rate, you need to
Take your energy and focus it on your parents. Forget about him, cut the cord, stop calling him the GP, as it seems to be a way to make you feel/seem like a martyr in all of this, when you are just as enabling as your parents are/were. Focus on your parents and their illnesses/your mom, etc. buy the kids gifts, do not give him ANY money. Tell
Him
That's it, you're done. Accepting furniture for collateral is just an excuse, IMO.
Also what is this furniture collateral? Is it valuable antiques? Original Chippendale chair perhaps?

More likely it is a bunch of old crap he is storing at your house for free. Am I right?
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Wile, I don't know what is going on with your brother right now, becuz you aren't giving any details.
Originally Posted by Lotsawaves

I think there's a warrant issued for his arrest because he hasn't been paying child support.
Wile, I don't know what is going on with your brother right now, becuz you aren't giving any details.
Originally Posted by Lotsawaves

I think there's a warrant issued for his arrest because he hasn't been paying child support.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Right, and if that's what this loan is about, don't do it. I'm all for the kids. I hate deadbeat parents. However, he needs to feel the pain for what he has done to his kids. If you think the kids are hungry, give the custodial parent a supermarket gift card. If their shoes have holes, buy them new ones. Do NOT bail the deadbeat out.
Wile, I don't know what is going on with your brother right now, becuz you aren't giving any details.
Originally Posted by Lotsawaves

I think there's a warrant issued for his arrest because he hasn't been paying child support.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
Right, and if that's what this loan is about, don't do it. I'm all for the kids. I hate deadbeat parents. However, he needs to feel the pain for what he has done to his kids. If you think the kids are hungry, give the custodial parent a supermarket gift card. If their shoes have holes, buy them new ones. Do NOT bail the deadbeat out.
Originally Posted by mrspoppers

Exactly. Deadbeats are the lowest of the low. They're the type of people who can afford to buy cigarettes and lottery tickets and fancy phones, but never have enough money for their own children. Loaning money to them or paying their child support obligation for them is the worst thing you can do. Give money directly to the children or resident parent if they need it, but let him feel the pain of his actions. A night or week in jail might help him understand that he has to pay.
This a very difficult thread to read for me, because I m living a very similar situation.

Hope my English is understandable.

I have a "GP" brother, a full grown up man, always over-protected by my parents, who lives his life, his "wife"'s life (quotation marks are because they are not married, he lives at my parents so not living toghether, and won t be) and their precious little daughter (2 yo); feeling that others deserve something to them.
I have to say here, and no where else, that after many months of therapy; my brother starts to come up as a big trigger of all my issues.
Wile, I ve been here and reading your posts, for some time. You had let your brother s behavior, affect you. I think I feel what you feel. Good old parents protecting their little child.
He is not. He is an adult.
To me, therapy has been an eye opener. Don t take me bad. I suggest you go and talk about this with a professional. It did help me.

You are not responsible of your brother, you are not responsible of your parents chooses, you are not responsible of your nephews.

CGNYC, RCW, MrsP, CP, CC, and so many more are giving you (and me) truly good advice.
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Mexico City.

Last edited by maria_i; 11-24-2011 at 12:17 AM.
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Ok, lemme see if I can clear up a few things...
~ego boosting isn't my thing
~I do know that I like to be in control of a situation, especially if my dough is involved
~I do what I do strictly for my nephews
~I don't do drama or care about saving the day or being a hero
~I only value one penis and it ain't his!
~I have kept things I'm storing b/c of his decisions
~He actually is attached to his material possessions b/c they are quite expensive
~I did agree w/ P [hubby] that we/I need to stop
~I'm not a martyr
~There is no warrant for unpaid CS
~He's not a DB, as of now, and no bailing out is occurring
~CS is his deal not mine

Thanks to everyone for their comments/opinions/views/etc....

As you can see, I can't fn sleep b/c I have so much on my mind..lol
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Last edited by WileESteelNervs; 11-24-2011 at 03:19 AM.
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What is a GP?
Originally Posted by curlypearl
Golden Penis

I don't know that its relevant in this anymore though. I think of a GP as the shining son, the one every one loves, the favorite child.

Not so much the guy who keeps messing up his life
and is always needing to be bailed out.
Originally Posted by CurlyCanadian
I do remember once that PH gave a really great def of GP, tho can't recall exactly what it was...
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You're so cagey. You say "he owes you no money for the pilot" and that "she drives the pilot". But you didn't actually say "he paid it off". Ergo...I can only surmise that she must owe you money for the pilot. Are they still together?
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
gtfoh cagey?!
the pilot is strictly her responsibility, as I have stated numerous time before!
Code:
chicks
they are still together and unfortunately will probably get married.........god help us all........
Originally Posted by WileESteelNervs


OK, so I was right. He/They have not paid off the car loan. Saying "he owes you no money" is indeed cagey.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
I think what you're saying is what my folks have said. They believe the HE is giving HER money, correct? I don't give a rat's a...all I care about is the check clears....and, no, the car that she has in her name is not paid off...yet...

rcw...you are always right
Code:
your poor hubby
she owes me...he does not...wtheck
Originally Posted by WileESteelNervs


I'm only right about the things I'm right about. I don't post wrong stuff...that would be stupid.

You're just ticked because my Bullsh1t Detector works.
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
I'm not ticked about anything.
I'm straight up...ask anyone who knows me.
Folks on the board can vouch for it.
idk what you mean about your BSD
I'm not a BS'r.....
Well then ask yourself why you even ask these questions about your brother. You never want to hear what anyone has to say unless they're telling you how awful he is and how wonderful you are to put up with him. Anything else is waved off.
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I don't believe that's true.
What am I waving off?
I agree with CGNYC and RCW.

WileE, this isn't something I've ever have to put up with, thankfully, so I don't have the personal experience others do, but I have noticed that when you talk about your brother, you seem to still be living out a childhood dynamic. You seem so much more immature when you post about him, and then mature and together when you post about the rest of your life. You'll talk about yourself working, studying, picking yourself up and trying again, raising your kid, running a household, saving up and anticipating and going on a vacation, all like a grown-up, and then post about your brother and sound like a whiny little girl. (And that's common, that we revert to our childhood patterns when dealing with siblings and parents.)

It sounds to me like you're still competing with your brother for your parents' attention (the "GP" stuff - that comes across as "waaah, waaah, mom and dad like HIM better.") Don't you think it's a good thing that your parents don't have to worry about you so much and can rely on you or know you are OK? Worrying and blaming yourself at the end of your life for an irresponsible screw-up you raised doesn't sound like any privileged position to me, or anything I'd want to put upon my parents. Don't you think they're just concerned about the grandchildren from him (and know that your kid is OK so they don't have to worry?)

I also never saw the point of the furniture collateral (and that is a beautiful antique armoire you have.) I could see that really annoying your husband and causing problems for you at home - mine would be livid if I suddenly wanted to rearrange the entire house for someone else's furniture that technically will be leaving again. Maybe yours is OK with it, I don't know, but even if he is, the whole idea of it seems childish as well. You shouldn't need a "collateral" for money you give him, whether or not it is for the kids or directly to him. Think "give, not lend" when it comes to family, as others have pointed out. If you can't afford to let "your dough" go, then don't give it.

I also agree that I would do any giving directly to the kids, and not cash - the actual items, or gift cards specifically for food, etc. and let him learn from his mistakes otherwise.

And I do find that, despite your complaints about "GP", you're the one buying into "GP" thinking most of all! Your brother isn't fulfilling his child support / child care responsibilities, and you're harping on the ex - blaming the woman and allowing a man to be irresponsible and completely shirk his duties to his children. Well then, of course someone else (your parents, or you) is going to have to step in. I think it would be GREAT if his ass went to jail for a few days so he could start being a real man. I don't get why you are letting this man act like a little boy and then saying your PARENTS believe in "golden penises."

I don't mean this to sound harsh - you asked us to be frank, so I am being frank. Hopefully if you hear this enough times, it will eventually do something for you.
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I don't believe that's true.
What am I waving off?
Originally Posted by WileESteelNervs
Post #50 seems to be a lot of excuses and dismissal of the very good points people have made. Read it again.

You don't have to justify anything to any of us... just think about this for yourself. You say you are troubled about this and you do seem so - sometimes having someone spell things out in black and white helps more than hearing what you want to hear does.
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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











How about you let him live on the street for a little while, that will straighten him up.
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Amneris...I appreciate your view.
I have gone back at looked at what you are referring to and the only thing that is really glaring to me is the DB type of comments. Trust me when I say that I would be the FIRST person to agree w/ that, tho at this time it's not true and I wanted to make that clear.

I can't find what else I might/could be missing.

No, you are right when you say that I don't have to justify, tho I want to make sure that things do not get misinterpreted, you know?

Yeah, I absolutely conflicted about it...who wouldn't be?

Interesting perspective. I think that if we were able to talk about this, as I have w/ some of my other curly friends, that you would see me differently...idk...jmho

I don't need to compete w/ him and never have. Yes, mom and dad do know that we are fine and all that. Mom even said to me the other day how she only gets to see his kids every now and then and my kid whenever she wants...I know that changes things...absolutely.

They are, indeed concerned about the grandchildren...absolutely.

The furniture situation, in all honesty, actually annoys me more than hubby! It does not seem to phase him. In fact, he has laughed at me for some of the demands, dare I say, that I have put on the stuff we are storing for him. Hubby doesn't seem to care as much as I do...go figure....shrug

I have set up college for them since he and his ex spent the dough that was supposed to go to the kids.

He is up-to-date on CS. I want to make that clear. I would be the first to bust him on that. If that was the case otherwise they would not be here. I blame them both. He's been to jail before. I am pretty sure he doesn't want to go back. He has a really good job right know. He always has had pretty good ones, actually, and I'm sure he doesn't want to fark this up b/c he knows that there are no more chances.

Once again, ty for your perspective.

Y'all have a great TG...

Last edited by WileESteelNervs; 11-24-2011 at 08:50 AM.
Wile, I hope you were able to get some sleep last night. You know we've talked about the GP's in our families. My brother was notorious for using my parents. It was my mom who allowed this, not my dad, but my mom ruled the house. They were out so much money with him and also supplied a lot for his children. Today he is still the GP even tho' he now supports his family and doesn't need money from the parents.

I remember a conversation with my mom about him and she didn't remember him doing the things he did. I don't think she wanted to know what a loser he was. He was her baby boy and could do no wrong. He was the one that got all the attention and my sister and I were ignored. I'll always resent the fact that my parents had a college fund for him and not my sister and I. We were suppose to just get married and have some man support us. When my brother decided he liked drugs more then school I asked if I could use the money for college. I wanted to go to law school. I was told no.

What I'm getting at is that your parents/mom are allowing him to use them. I do know that YOUR concern is for your parents, especially your mom and for the children. Your parents have made their bed and it is really their responsibility to put a stop to this. Of course they won't, but it really shouldn't be your concern. I feel you really need to just let go and concentrate on your husband and child. You really can't do anything with this situation. It should be left to your parents. They raised him, not you. You are trying to protect so many people who probably won't really see it that way. You need to move on with your own life. Why let him affect it.
From Michael Berg:

Every person has a unique connection to the Creator that can never be extinguished, and every person has a great soul that can manifest important things in our world. To make a person feel less than they are because of something inside themselves, be it faith, race, or sexual orientation, is the greatest sin of all."
If he has a good job and enough money to fulfill his child support obligation, what are you considering giving him money for? Christmas presents for the kids?

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