I Might Take A Beating For This...

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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043
Tho I need y'all to be frank w/ me.
I am feeling conflicted.
I love my bro, tho at times I want to punch him in the face to somehow get some sense into him.

Here is the latest...
Those who are tired of this drama, please be gentle.
I have been told I'm enabling him, tho he is my bro and I love him.
After this latest situation, I am giving him until April to get it together.
The thing is he does not have a CC and my dad says he won't finance him anymore.
I give NO unsecured loans; however I don't mind helping him.
He knows I don't play around and will bust his balls.
I have lots of his furniture for collateral, tho don't want to have to go there; however, he decides that.

So, my question is, w/o being too revealing, is how far do you go to help a sibling?
I was always told not to lend money to people that you love because if you don't get it back it causes conflict. I was advised only lend as much as you can afford to GIVE AWAY that way if you don't get it back you aren't hurting.

However if you continue to give to someone who refuses to get themselves together that is enabling. Sometimes people need consequences in order to change.


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It depends. I have a sister who is constantly behind the 8 ball. But it's all her own doing. It just gets to the point where I can't help anymore because she won't help herself. And if I do, then she turns around and gets herself back in the same position, then I'd be resentful of her and that's no good.

So one time, I guess, sure. But after that, you're on your own. I'm her sister, not her bank.

*Caveat* my sister does not have children. My answer might be different if she did.
My personal motto about loaning family members money:

If you loan a family member money never, ever expect to get it back... plan accordingly.


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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043
cailin, if your sis did have kiddos, how would you feel differently? ty
I'm going to be honest because you asked - it sounds very much like you enjoy being the hero and the responsible one and being in a position to control the situation. You don't give unsecured loans? You will take his furniture as collateral? Really?

I'm not saying I have sympathy for him, he's an adult who - so far - has not chosen to get it together. You're not helping - I think loans are just your way of a. feeling like the good child, b. being in control, and c. keeping your hand in the mix, buying yourself the right to have your say. And I say ALL this as the responsible, dependable older sister. It is very easy to get a lot of ego boosting from your position as the martyr. To a far lesser degree, it is hard to say no when they ask. Mostly, it's about being the person who can say yes - or not.

I have gone quite far to help a sibling, but until they decided to help themselves by growing up, getting jobs, and learning to live within a budget it was just throwing good money down a hole. I've bought cars and computers, paid deposits, cosigned, made loans, and been daycare. And as soon as they felt the "relief" they went right back to doing what they were doing so I was out the cash and they were still right back where they started.

I have also noticed that you are super hyper critical of your brother, whoever he is involved with, and his kids. I really wish you could hear yourself. I don't think you're usually WRONG, but you just shouldn't be so involved. I know, I have brothers, they have wives, and they all have kids. I have a LOT of opinions but it is not. my. business. Every time one of these posts comes up I think, just stay out of it and let him solve his own problems (or not). NO ONE is helping him by being so involved in his business. He will learn to handle it or he will deal with the consequences himself.

You need to be less involved in this situation. It is none of your business. Stay out of it. Back away and let him work it out, handle his finances, raise his kids, deal with whoever he's dating, etc. Do not get so wrapped up in someone else's business. It's not good for you and it's not good for them.

Trust me, girl, I have THREE brothers.
My only "but" is that you're asking about kids and it's close to Christmas. If this is a Christmas loan, I would give a reasonable amount for gifts, kiss it goodbye, and let that be the end of loans. Tell him now you don't think you should be so involved and you won't be doing it next year so he needs to plan ahead. I'm not made of stone, I can not deny kids gifts at Christmas. Even if their father is a jerk.

See? Not totally dead inside!

However, if he's just gotten himself into another tight spot, step away and let him handle it.
WileESteelNervs likes this.
You need to be less involved in this situation. It is none of your business. Stay out of it. Back away and let him work it out, handle his finances, raise his kids, deal with whoever he's dating, etc. Do not get so wrapped up in someone else's business. It's not good for you and it's not good for them.
Originally Posted by CGNYC

Yup yup yup!

You are too involved, WileE.

And, I know how this story goes...you usually answer with "well, it's my folks I'm concerned about". So what. Let your folks do what they want/need to do. They are adults. If they want to throw their good money after bad, so be it. It's not your money...though I think you might be concerned just a tiny bit about your future inheritance and them mis-spending it on your brother.
Without knowing a lot of the background, and without reading what others have posted: only as much as that sibling is willing to help him or her self. If you feel like he's working for it, and just having bad luck, and helping is not hindering him or enabling him to behave badly, then yeah, I'd help.

But if I felt like a sibling-- or anyone, for that matter-- is wading around is assistance and not working on it themselves, my personal investment would come to an end.
WileESteelNervs likes this.
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Stolen.
I helped my sister numerous times in the past-car loans, money for the light bill, money to buy her kids school clothes, etc. It got to the point where the only time I'd hear from her was when she wanted something and I was beginning to see that she really wasn't working to improve her financial situation so I cut her off. Most of the money I'd given her wasn't anything I couldn't afford to lose, but it's the principal of the thing.
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I'm going to be honest because you asked - it sounds very much like you enjoy being the hero and the responsible one and being in a position to control the situation. You don't give unsecured loans? You will take his furniture as collateral? Really?

I'm not saying I have sympathy for him, he's an adult who - so far - has not chosen to get it together. You're not helping - I think loans are just your way of a. feeling like the good child, b. being in control, and c. keeping your hand in the mix, buying yourself the right to have your say. And I say ALL this as the responsible, dependable older sister. It is very easy to get a lot of ego boosting from your position as the martyr. To a far lesser degree, it is hard to say no when they ask. Mostly, it's about being the person who can say yes - or not.

I have gone quite far to help a sibling, but until they decided to help themselves by growing up, getting jobs, and learning to live within a budget it was just throwing good money down a hole. I've bought cars and computers, paid deposits, cosigned, made loans, and been daycare. And as soon as they felt the "relief" they went right back to doing what they were doing so I was out the cash and they were still right back where they started.

I have also noticed that you are super hyper critical of your brother, whoever he is involved with, and his kids. I really wish you could hear yourself. I don't think you're usually WRONG, but you just shouldn't be so involved. I know, I have brothers, they have wives, and they all have kids. I have a LOT of opinions but it is not. my. business. Every time one of these posts comes up I think, just stay out of it and let him solve his own problems (or not). NO ONE is helping him by being so involved in his business. He will learn to handle it or he will deal with the consequences himself.

You need to be less involved in this situation. It is none of your business. Stay out of it. Back away and let him work it out, handle his finances, raise his kids, deal with whoever he's dating, etc. Do not get so wrapped up in someone else's business. It's not good for you and it's not good for them.

Trust me, girl, I have THREE brothers.
Originally Posted by CGNYC
+1 to this.

I'm assuming he still owes money from the truck you bought for his GF? He's just too deep because he knows you'll bail him out.

If it Christmas, I'd buy the gifts instead of giving him money. Lord knows what he'd actually do with the money.



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Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043
ftr....i wouldn't say gp is a jerk.
his ex is quite the piece of work tho.
and, yes, i fault him for his idiocy behavior.
and, i also admit that my folks pull at my heart strings b/c, well of who they are.
btw...what is wrong w/ me taking collateral? i'm not dumb and have learned from others....what's wrong w/ that?
he knows i don't f around and i'm okay w/ my stipulations.
what is so wrong w/ that? i'm just protecting myself
Code:
maybe too much courttv/trutv
Wiregirl likes this.
Even your dad has stopped helping, if I'm reading your first post right.

You need to stop, take a breath, and say "Enough."
WileESteelNervs likes this.
Minneapolis, MN
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rcc..no, he owes me no money for the pilot....
Assigning worse traits to the ex or justifying loans without collateral doesn't make his issues any better, it just makes you feel better. .

We've given you the same advice. You're just not quite ready to take it.


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rcc..no, he owes me no money for the pilot....
Originally Posted by WileESteelNervs


Ut oh. Did he crash and total it?
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043
I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
Not happened yet, rcw.
He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
She drives the Pilot.
I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
Not happened yet, rcw.
He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
She drives the Pilot.
Originally Posted by WileESteelNervs


You're so cagey. You say "he owes you no money for the pilot" and that "she drives the pilot". But you didn't actually say "he paid it off". Ergo...I can only surmise that she must owe you money for the pilot. Are they still together?
I agree with CGNYC 100% on almost all counts.

My family has a similar situation. Just substitute my sister for your brother and my mom for you. What CG said about the dynamic is exactly what has happened in my family.

I'm not going to get into the details about my sister's divorce because it will just derail your thread. I've posted about it here though, if you look.

Now that the divorce is final, my sister and nephew are settled in an apartment, and everything is stable, nobody in my family--including my mom--will give my sister money again, unless they are literally faced with homelessness. There is nothing short of homelessness that will sway us.

My opinion on the kids is this: Kids should be clothed, fed, sheltered, and feel safe. Outside of that, it is not necessary to give your bro money. If you really are talking about Christmas gifts, please don't do it. If you want the kids to have presents, make them from you. Do not give your bro money to buy gifts. If you absolutely can't help yourself, limit it to a very small amount of money, like $25/kid.

I know I sound like a hard ass. The thing is, gifts aren't a necessity. It's crazy that people go into debt for Christmas gifts. I can't tell you how many people call my husband in December and say they can't make their car or credit card payment because they need the money to buy Christmas gifts. Um, no you don't. People need to live within their means. And kids just don't need a bunch of expensive crap.

If you're talking about the child support or the kids not having food, that's a different thing altogether.
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 41,043
I honestly don't belive that's true rcc.
Not happened yet, rcw.
He has a Honda Accord that he drives.
She drives the Pilot.
Originally Posted by WileESteelNervs


You're so cagey. You say "he owes you no money for the pilot" and that "she drives the pilot". But you didn't actually say "he paid it off". Ergo...I can only surmise that she must owe you money for the pilot. Are they still together?
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
gtfoh cagey?!
i never said HE owed me $ for the pilot.
the title is ONLY in HER name.
the pilot is strictly her responsibility, as i have stated before.
i have possession of the clear title.
Code:
chicks
they are still together and unfortunately will probably get married.........god help us all........
and hubby always tells me why do i bring this stuff to the board and i say b/c i want to know what y'all think...lol

Last edited by WileESteelNervs; 11-23-2011 at 06:31 PM.

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