IAmJordanNicole

Who cares?? I need to know, please tell me!!!!!


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stars

Uhh, everyone? Least where I live, if something discriminatory or racist happens to a black person, it's all over the news, newspapers, internet, and it becomes a serious issue. Which it rightfully should!

But if something like that happens to a white person, you'll never hear about it.

*Marah*

For some reason YT wouldn't play the video for me.

What you describe above though is why I don't buy into making racism seem like it can be reversed on white folks or that blacks can't be racist. I just look at racism as wrong on every level. So terms that people like David Duke use to justify their nonsense is BS to me..just like it's BS to me when militant racist black groups: IE: certain groups of BHI's try to use black slavery to justify their racist hate speech.

But I understand why many blacks have your position. I respect why as well. I'm just saying for me I don't like to invalidate racism or bigotry against any other group based on what happened with blacks because I know how racism feels and I know I don't want anyone else feeling that..doesn't matter their racial background.

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favoritecolorblu

I'm in the DC metro area and I've only heard a little more about it since Obama came into office....

Saria

Ah, the poor under-represented, disenfranchised white people and the media brushing aside the crimes committed against them.

You're right, they shouldn't just take it. They should get a movement going to fight for their rights!

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stars

Yeah, they should, why not? If someone is being attacked then they should speak up. Should they not? Shouldn't everyone?

IAmJordanNicole

If you never hear about it how do you know that it happened. You said you live in predominantly black neighborhood, so when something happens to black people, they care. Just like when something happens to white people white people care...but as far as national media and media as a whole, they don't care about racism or what happens to black people especially...c'mon, you seems intelligent enough, you have to realize the errors in your argument.


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*Marah*

Yes..sounds to me you relate very well. Agreed. Glad to know you DO get it.

Oh..no no no..white folks can miss me on the reverse racism bull! I always give that a side eye cause I know what's next..how what happened to black folks is over and people of color need to shut up..oh and now they like to toss in.."You have a black president and you are still complaining!"

Just like when people start in on "the Jews..." and some reference about us "pretending" the Shoah was worse than it was..no..HELL NO!

So I'm not suggesting..we ignore history..that's how stuff repeats and I'm on the NEVER AGAIN wagon. I'm just saying if we as people of color/other minorities start acting like white people can't say anything at all about their dealings with racism it really looks to me like we are taking a page out of their book and it's just fodder for the fire with people just like David Duke..and phoney ass white people that smile in your face and give all the best politically correct answers in public but use their influence,white privledge,and power to make sure blacks and browns stay behind.

I'm saying we can rise above all that...and still excel given it's not easy because the pain is still there and salt is constantly poured in the wound. I don't know maybe I need to be more before Mecca Malcolm X than I Have A Dream MLK. LOL!

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IAmJordanNicole

Babygirl, if black people started a revolution everytime they were discriminated against we'd still be having people match on Washington! You're starting to sound silly.


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Amneris

Because the examples are irrelevant - first of all, they centre around ethnicity/culture which is not what we're talking about, and secondly, the context in which they are brought up is problematic, and thirdly, evee isn't getting the contextual issue, either wilfully or she just doesn't, so there's nothing to talk about.

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

Amneris

And some of us are saying there IS no racism/prejudice/hate crimes/race-based violence against white people, and therefore nothing to take seriously.

No one should "just deal with" violence against them. If someone is violent against you, they are breaking the law and you call the cops. That's how you deal with it. I do not think there is any large-scale trend of Black people committing acts of violence against white people because they are white and the Black people hate white people, think Blacks are superior to them and think white people should be rubbed off the face of the earth. Possibly there are isolated situations like this, if that, but it is not, and never has been, a widespread social problem. No one has provided any evidence to the contrary. In fact, I was looking at hate crime stats recently (self-reported) and white people were nowhere on the list.

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

Amneris

There was actually a case about this in Canada, where some aboriginal youths jumped a white guy and referred to him as "whitey" and the Crown came in with some bogus hate crime charges (they were getting charged for the jumping regardless, but a hate crime is an aggravating factor that adds time to the sentence if you are convicted.) Their lawyer got those charges thrown out because they said that referring to a white guy as "whitey" in an aboriginal neighbourhood doesn't mean you look at white people as negative or specifically targetted the guy for being white, and they jumped people all the time in that neighbourhood and those youths had charges for the same kind of thing before, against other aboriginals as well.

Some other guy filed a bogus refugee claim from South Africa that people kept robbing and mugging him because he was white. His ass got sent back because, likewise, the problem was crime in South Africa being committed against everyone, not him being targetted specifically for being white.

It seems to me that in a low-income neighbourhood there will be more crimes and beatings for various sociological factors... and more racialized persons committing them... and this does not mean that the problem is "racism against whites." These are problems faced by people in these neighbourhoods, which is often manifested as Black-on-Black crime. Don't you think lots of Black people were also getting jumped and beat on by the same Black people doing it to you, or by other Black people? Your complete lack of context makes it difficult to take this seriously because you're making it sound as if you lived in this neighbourhood of peaceful, loving Black and Latino people who loved themselves and each other, and treated everyone great except this one innocent, sweet white girl who they pounded on daily for no reason when she never did anything, specifically because she was white, and didn't commit violence against anyone else who ticked them off or they perceived as different. And I just don't think that that was the case.

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

Amneris

Um... wouldn't this be that it's NOT happening to a white person so there's nothing to report? I've never known a reporter who would shy away from a story like that.

Also, what you see in the news doesn't show whether people do or don't care about racism. It's the stuff that DOESN'T get reported that matters. How often does mainstream media talk about the effects of colonialism, or slavery, or about white privilege, or about its own complicity in a certain beauty standard, or about how we still live with white supremacy, or about the true ramifications of racial profiling, or the true need for affirmative action? Plus media are always reporting when white people go missing... not so much people of colour. Or they make sure we know when a criminal suspect is a person of colour. I don't know how you can seriously make that claim.

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

Amneris

FYI: There are White Power and Aryan Nation movements that deal with problems of the poor, oppressed white person and speak out on their behalf.

__________________
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

Amneris

Starting????

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

Amneris

But there's a huge difference there.

Let's take the Romany/Romani/Roma people. Many of them were persecuted and killed by the Nazis along with Jews. Figures I've seen are that approx. 6 million Jews died and approx. 12 million people total, so about half the victims were Jewish and the biggest single group, but significant amounts of others were killed, too. I have heard some Romany complain that their suffering is not taken as seriously or talked about as much as that of Jews. I'm not taking sides on that, but to me it's a completely different claim than the white people getting beat up story.

For one thing, Romany are and have been systematically oppressed in Europe for centuries. They get chased out of places, they're poor, they're stigmatized. They continue to be attacked and to be victims of hate crimes today. That they were targetted by Hitler was part of an ongoing pattern of being treated as inferior, as it was with Jews. The same twisted values that looked at Jews a certain way also looked that way at Romani... or the mentally and physically disabled... or persons of colour. It's all part of the same type of hatred, so it's legitimate to compare the two or discuss them in a similar context.

However, a white person getting jumped isn't even on the same planet for discussion as racism against Blacks. Racism against Blacks could be discussed in the context of anti-semitism, since it is the same type of thinking and has the same drastic effects, but "racism against whites" is just so foolish-sounding that it shouldn't be in the same conversation! It's like talking about "sexism against men" or "discrimination against people for not having disabilities by people with disabilities." Has someone without disabilities ever been made fun of or attacked by someone with them? Possibly there are anecdotes about this... but seriously, we need to talk about it more and do something about it and the media are ignoring it?

Or... have Jews ever beat up a Christian "for being Christian?" Or made fun of them or excluded them? Have people ever claimed that Jewish kids did x and y to them because they weren't Jewish and it wasn't fair? Does this now mean that because we're not talking about this more, we're ignoring this problem of anti-Christian sentiment by Jews, etc. etc. etc? When we hear this stuff, it's usually claims about Jewish conspiracies by neo-Nazis. That's how offensive claims of "racism against whites" are to me and to others. Sounds like White Power thinking to me.

The price Black people had to pay for getting legal rights was to submit to integration (because the result of white supremacy was that, rather than believe that conditions within the community could and should be bettered, people believed that they needed access to the obviously superior white institutions of power) and submit to this neo-liberal thinking that denies white supremacy and tries to stick to formal equality thinking that tells us that "everyone can be racist against anyone else" or "everyone should earn what they get on their own merit" or "everyone should be treated the same at all times regardless." And that's just not the way things are working in the real world.

The very fact that a white person can look at an under-privileged, under-served, depressed neighbourhood overwhelmingly populated by people of colour and riddled with violence and come out of it thinking that the big issue people should be screaming about is that THEY got jumped BECAUSE THEY WERE WHITE is, as I said, whining about your papercut to the person with freakin' terminal cancer.

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

*Marah*

Yeah..I know the history of my people...doesnt change my view. Racism against whites doesn't have to be compared and contrasted to racism and/or prejudice blacks and Jews have/still do deal with for it to be validated. It's not a pissing contest to me. Everyone in their right mind knows blacks and Jews have suffered more than white Europeans. But to pretend or ignore that white individuals are victims of racism sometimes is ridiculous.

A lot of people in history have paid prices doesnt mean mean because another people suffered worse everyone else should shut up. I realize not everyone is treated equal that doesn't mean that racism to other people besides blacks is any less important. Just means certain people feel that way and that doesnt automatically equal rightness. I do think people should be treated equal but I also realize there isn't a level playing field so certain concessions have to and should be made. That's a separate issue from recognizing that yeah black folks can be just as racist as anyone else and some blacks indeed are just that..racist. Doesn't matter that they have less or no power. That's reality no matter how much you or anyone else want to give a pass because of the black plight of slavery and predjuice blacks have faced.


Yeah..I agree with the above premise..but no one said otherwise so not sure why you mention that at all. I get the whole arguement and I get why blacks like yourself feel as you conveyed..but that's YOUR reality and YOUR feelings..no one else needs to agree. And well some of us dont. Doesn't make your feelings any less valid and I do acknowlege them. I simply disagree with you (and others that share your position) on some issues concerning this disucussion..that's it.

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Amneris

I thought this thread was started by someone trying to say Blacks haven't suffered more, and whine about it too much to boot???? Isn't that how this whole conversation started - and evee seemed to be lending support to that person's views, which were shared in response to hers?

People can feel or have opinions any way they want - doesn't make them right. People believe the Holocaust never happened, there is a Jewish conspiracy, the earth is flat, men are the natural rulers of women... you name it, and they can feel very strongly that they are right and their personal experiences support those views. Doesn't mean those views are valid and don't deserve contempt for being ignorant. I put "white people suffer racism" in the same category of ridiculousness and stupidness and I am not really interested in the opinions of ignoramuses (ignorami? what?) It is not simply a matter of my reality and opinion vs. someone else's and both are equally valid... HELL NAW!

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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali

*Marah*

I was talking specifically about the branch off discussion surrounding Evee..not the OP. I don't think Evee was conveying the ideas the OP were at all. I didn't/dont agree with the OP's observations but I understood where Evee was coming from on her feelings about her personal experiences.

Well the same can be said of your views on many issues..that they go into the ridiculous, stupid, and some aren't interested in your ignorant opinions category. But to you, your views are nothing of the sort..so yeah it really does come down to one's perception of reality and their opinion.

We could go around in circles non-stop on this..not like any views are going to change..So I respectfully agree to disagree with you on this subject. If you cant validate my right to do that..fine. I dont need you to do so.

No hard feelings on my end.

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Ninjarette

It's not so much that. People disagree on the definition of racism. I am of the "blacks can't be racist towards whites" camp.

Prejudice can evolve into racism, so that would mean racism starts with prejudice. But in my mind, according to my understanding of how things work in the world, they are not the same animal. Racism is a concerted, systematic "acting out" of prejudice, with a goal of denying rights and privileges (which are often directly tied to socio economic advancement) to a specific group of people, based on their race.

It's not about gettin' your butt kicked in the wrong neighborhood. It's not about all the white folks, or black folks eating lunch together.

It's not even about people "disliking" you, because of your race. There are white people who "like" black people. They just don't think we're as smart as they are, as civilized as they are, or as "whatever" as they are. They wouldn't burn crosses on our lawns, or post derogatory pics on the employee lunch room bulletin board, or circulate racist emails. They'll chat with us at the water cooler, and congratulate us when we get promoted. BUT, that doesn't mean they consider us to be equal to them.

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