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Old 11-27-2011, 06:22 AM   #101
 
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I wish I could say these things rather than write them. I kinda go on a rant sometimes and get lost lols. I get what you are saying. I agree that we have not come that far in certain senses. I am just saying it took a long time for blacks to get "freedom", to be able to own a business and have things they wouldn't have been able to have before. And then you have these certain black people who act ridiculous and other races then think of all black people acting like that (prejudice). If these prejudices could be broken blacks would have a lot more advantages! There are many blacks out there that are capable of so many things; prejudice and racism sometimes holds them back.
I can't be concerned with people who judge every black person by the roguish actions of some. I'm not here to show others that "hey some of us are good"

Every ethnic/ race has rough people. One of the advantages of white privilege is that their rough people are seen as exceptions to the rule, rather than the norm. Just see how many blacks have been told " you are not like the others "



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Old 11-27-2011, 06:30 AM   #102
 
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Yes. I used to get my arse kicked ALOT when I was younger, just for being white in a predominately black neighborhood. Nevermind I was a nice person, and still am, to everyone. All I'd get was "COME HERE WHITEY" followed by a beating.

Yet, this is somehow not as significant. Or not taken seriously. And I'm expected to suck it up and take it.
Well, I guess you can always call the Klan and they can take care of it. I mean, that's how it was done back in the day, and even still in some areas.

Just a suggestion. The fallout from integration. I feel you, girl.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:08 AM   #103
 
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Sigh. Another example of how I'm supposed to just "take it."

What was I supposed to do, go "yes, I understand why you are beating me up, so go ahead, continue to beat the crap outta me, in fact, I deserve it, just for being white!"

I'm sorry, but there is no justifying violence.
Did you even read what Saria said? She didn't attempt to justify violence, or say that you deserve to be beaten up because you're white. That's coming out of your own head, not Saria's.

Is it bad that you were beaten up for racial reasons? Yes. Is that indicative of systemic racism against white people? No. And that's not to minimize what happened to you. It's just very different from systemic racism.

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Old 11-27-2011, 07:09 AM   #104
 
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I can't believe yoy just took it the Klan.
Also know that we didn't fight for integration during civil rights. We didn't fight to sit together on the bus. We taught to sit where we wanted

There are so many books and studies about race in America. Don't just take what you got from 8th grade history about us & say get over it. Many people narrow us down slavery, MLK, and Jackie Robinson. Sociology coupled with a few African American Studies classes, Four five world history classes, & an African history class will offer a foundation to anyone seeking to learn about why people of color can't let it go. I don't think you can really get it until you read about it from various perspectives.

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Old 11-27-2011, 07:18 AM   #105
 
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Sigh. Another example of how I'm supposed to just "take it."

What was I supposed to do, go "yes, I understand why you are beating me up, so go ahead, continue to beat the crap outta me, in fact, I deserve it, just for being white!"

I'm sorry, but there is no justifying violence.
Did you even read what Saria said? She didn't attempt to justify violence, or say that you deserve to be beaten up because you're white. That's coming out of your own head, not Saria's.

Is it bad that you were beaten up for racial reasons? Yes. Is that indicative of systemic racism against white people? No.
This was mentioned before. The systemmatic racism is not the only form. Just like genocide isn't the only of murder. Purely definitional racism is a belief.


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Old 11-27-2011, 07:26 AM   #106
 
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PSA TIME: THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS OF "RACISM"

The word "racism" can be used to refer to generally any racial bigotry, or specifically to systemic racial bigotry. The former definition is used in sociology, but it's not the only definition. "Racism" is one of many words that have different meanings in general usage vs. academic usage. (Think of "just a theory" vs "theory of gravity.")

Personally, I don't think that limiting the definition of "racism" to systemic racial bigotry would help in non-academic discussions of racism, because most white Americans think that white people--and not black people--are systemically oppressed.

Also, if you want to encourage people to think of the word "racism" only in terms of the academic definition, I think you need to give more of an explanation than "that's not racism, that's racial prejudice." A statement like that is just going to be really confusing, since most people aren't familiar with the academic definition of the word.
Thank you for posting this. I was starting to think this "thats not racism..." is something everyone on cn.com agreed upon & they like promoting that tidbit in these debates. Lol. institutionalized racism is not the only type of racism just like genocide isn't the only type of murder.

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Old 11-27-2011, 07:45 AM   #107
 
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All of it. You know we haven't come as far as you would like to think. How many Black pro athletes do you know of? How many Black athletic pro team owners do you know of? Did you know that the average female headed black household doesn't have more than $5000 saved for a rainy day? These are a few of the obvious disadvantages of entering a marathon as the winner crossed the finish line.

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There are A LOT of Black Pro athletes...NFL anyone? Albert Haynesworth, Michael Vick, DeSean Jackson, etc. My brother's friend's dad is a Black Pro athlete.
Wow you must watch espn. Lol. Albert...dumped by new england. Vick...dog fighting. & desean jackson...i can smell a mess brewing & him getting cut soon.

Funny selection lol.

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Old 11-27-2011, 07:46 AM   #108
 
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Sienna, how many black people are going around thinking that they're a superior race to white people? That's why I'm not going to label that racism. We can leave institutionalized racism aside and use a more general definition and I'm still going to call that bigotry, not racism.

Also, there are far too many people who spout off about how black people are more racist than whites, and really, it trivializes the things people of color go through that aren't in your face OMGTHAT'SRACIST! but more subtle, or not so subtle, but others refuse to see as racist. It makes it even harder for all the people who bury their heads in the sand and are incapable of acknowledging white privilege to have empathy. And yep, it annoys people, because nobody wants to hear how oppressed you feel when you're in a position of power. I mean, if a bunch of men were having a pity party about how oppressed they feel by women, you'd likely roll your eyes, no?
We had a thread about the Madoffs where people said they didn't feel the least bit sorry for their misfortunes. Yep, rich people have problems, too, but poor people really don't want to hear how hard their life is.


Also, purposely not hiring women is sexism.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:51 AM   #109
 
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Sienna, how many black people are going around thinking that they're a superior race to white people? That's why I'm not going to label that racism. We can leave institutionalized racism aside and use a more general definition and I'm still going to call that bigotry, not racism.

Also, purposely not hiring women is sexism.

There are some blacks who do think they are superior, but there are more whites who believe they are superior.
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Old 11-27-2011, 07:59 AM   #110
 
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That's why I'm not going to label that racism. We can leave institutionalized racism aside and use a more general definition and I'm still going to call that bigotry, not racism.
That's an interesting point. Personally, I would say that bigotry based on perceived racial distinctions is a form of racism.

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Old 11-27-2011, 08:23 AM   #111
 
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i don't want to skim over the fact that blacks can treat white people poorly just because it reveals ugliness about us. we are very comfortable in the victim role but we often don't want to shine a light on the times when we do have power and exert it negatively over others.

i used to go to all black schools in nj (working class). i'm convinced that nj is one of the most segregated places in the united states.

at any rate it has ALWAYS bothered me the way SOME black and by some i really mean MANY black kids treated the very few white kids that went to our school.

granted, whiteness wasn't really the key-i would argue that some black kids are terribly cruel and tend to make fun of any flaw or difference they can find. (it's hard being dark skinned, gay, fat, poor, ugly, tall, short, crooked teeth, nappy hair, foreign - whatever, it's really not just white.) it takes a certain knowing of how to deal with bad kids, ignorant kids, class clowns, or bullies-and often white kids are coming from an outside culture and tend to be victims of black aggression.

this is something UNIQUE and i did not find this behavior in white schools, in fact the way whites treat blacks poorly is a different animal. whites tend to exclude blacks and it's "mission impossible" to gain access to certain groups of people.

in an all black environment (poor or working class), a good ass whooping from one white kid over a black kid pretty much squashed future beatings or made you "in".

then there are those whites who have tough skins that manage to be very popular and loved.

i just want to add that although whites can point to maltreatment from blacks, i think blacks tend to be very open and accepting. we may give you a hard time but when you're in you are in, like a sibling.
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Old 11-27-2011, 08:35 AM   #112
 
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Sienna, how many black people are going around thinking that they're a superior race to white people? That's why I'm not going to label that racism. We can leave institutionalized racism aside and use a more general definition and I'm still going to call that bigotry, not racism.

Also, there are far too many people who spout off about how black people are more racist than whites, and really, it trivializes the things people of color go through that aren't in your face OMGTHAT'SRACIST! but more subtle, or not so subtle, but others refuse to see as racist. It makes it even harder for all the people who bury their heads in the sand and are incapable of acknowledging white privilege to have empathy. And yep, it annoys people, because nobody wants to hear how oppressed you feel when you're in a position of power. I mean, if a bunch of men were having a pity party about how oppressed they feel by women, you'd likely roll your eyes, no?
We had a thread about the Madoffs where people said they didn't feel the least bit sorry for their misfortunes. Yep, rich people have problems, too, but poor people really don't want to hear how hard their life is.


Also, purposely not hiring women is sexism.
I agree that there aren't many of us who feel superior or proud to be black at all for that matter. I do however know many who believe life started with ppl of color along the euphrates & jesus was black and all that. Its not popular black opinion by any means but there are many blacks who feel that way. I am also not expressing my personal beliefs in my examples I am stating my exeriences though. Its not popular to be a black sunni muslim having been raised christian but I am, just because its not a majority doesn't mean its not occurring or doesn't exist.

Sidenote: I don't feel sorry for the victims of madoff myself. They were wealthy off that scam at some point. You gamble and you lose big sometimes, which is why I don't gamble. I do think its a shame that madoff will likely do more time for a crime against someones money than Jerry Sandusky will get for raping young boys. Thats our oh so effecrive justice system though. Smh

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Old 11-27-2011, 08:58 AM   #113
 
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We don't know their motive but what they committed was a hate crime in my eyes which means they are racist & prejudiced and you can be both in this case.

My point is that if one bad experience can change the way one views another race what can centuries of experiences do?

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She just said that they beat her up just because she was white. No other reason, because she was white. And the fact that they said "Hey Whitey", gives it away that they were prejudice.

Racism is what happened in the '60s. Where people were denied even the most basic things just because of the color of their skin. Sure everyone could be prejudice, but the minorities could not be. They could not tell whites that they couldn't drink at the same water fountains. But whites sure could tell the minorities that they weren't allowed to. A black person could not, deny a white person anything, while a white person could.

If civil rights weren't established, we'd still be in the 60s and I probably wouldn't be doing anything that I'm doing just because I'm a black woman.
That is institutionalized racism. When You make laws or promote behavior that denegrate another race. Jim Crow, slavery in & of itself, etc. civil rights changed that to an extent.

Racism is as simple as "I believe blacks are better than whites period". I don't have to ever act on the belief to be racist. I don't have to even tell anyone I feel this way. I am just a racist and a bigot and even a supremacist who feels my race is good & that the other race is bad.

Prejudice is "I don't hire women because they are too emotional. I talk to women, I have female friends, but women can't do what men can in the workplace." I discriminate against women because of my prejudice. If I said Asian women I would be racist & prejudiced & stupid on top of all that.

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Yeah, but very few if any Blacks actually believe this, though some may claim it.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:01 AM   #114
 
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She just said that they beat her up just because she was white. No other reason, because she was white. And the fact that they said "Hey Whitey", gives it away that they were prejudice.

Racism is what happened in the '60s. Where people were denied even the most basic things just because of the color of their skin. Sure everyone could be prejudice, but the minorities could not be. They could not tell whites that they couldn't drink at the same water fountains. But whites sure could tell the minorities that they weren't allowed to. A black person could not, deny a white person anything, while a white person could.

If civil rights weren't established, we'd still be in the 60s and I probably wouldn't be doing anything that I'm doing just because I'm a black woman.
That is institutionalized racism. When You make laws or promote behavior that denegrate another race. Jim Crow, slavery in & of itself, etc. civil rights changed that to an extent.

Racism is as simple as "I believe blacks are better than whites period". I don't have to ever act on the belief to be racist. I don't have to even tell anyone I feel this way. I am just a racist and a bigot and even a supremacist who feels my race is good & that the other race is bad.

Prejudice is "I don't hire women because they are too emotional. I talk to women, I have female friends, but women can't do what men can in the workplace." I discriminate against women because of my prejudice. If I said Asian women I would be racist & prejudiced & stupid on top of all that.

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Yeah, but very few if any Blacks actually believe this, though some may claim it.

If any is not an option. I just told you there are. I am not lying & I have been listening to black convo all my life. Also do you not know who tupac, malcolm x, boby seal, & huey p newton are? I didn't invent a theory.
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Old 11-27-2011, 11:57 AM   #115
 
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Tupac!? Lol.... This thread is just full if inaccuracies, misrepresentations, extreme over-reaching, and extremely colorful exaggerations.

Some of you would seriously benefit from cracking open a history book and a dictionary.

:sigh:

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Old 11-27-2011, 12:17 PM   #116
 
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Tupac!? Lol.... This thread is just full if inaccuracies, misrepresentations, extreme over-reaching, and extremely colorful exaggerations.

Some of you would seriously benefit from cracking open a history book and a dictionary.

:sigh:

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Do u know anything about tupac's mother? Did you know he was raised under a Black panther? Did you ever see his interviews or hers. Do you think Quincy Jones would have wanted his daughter around some moron? Tupac jad a higher level of thinking than many people know. Google him & don't worry I'll wait.
"the penitentiary is packed & its filled with blacks?"
"Instead of war on poverty. They got a war on drugs so the police can bother me"

Hip Hop was politically inclined before lil jon and the eastside boys & drake


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Old 11-27-2011, 12:26 PM   #117
 
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Sienna, I know all about it. Why do you think hip hop is traditionally a politically charged mode of expression? Why do you think, even though the message has changed, that hip hop continues to attract black youth in droves? Hip hop was at one time a voice for the unheard and the unseen poor black people that no one cared two spits about. It was a response to the very sense of inferiority and oppression that racism fostered.

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Old 11-27-2011, 12:46 PM   #118
 
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Sienna, I know all about it. Why do you think hip hop is traditionally a politically charged mode of expression? Why do you think, even though the message has changed, that hip hop continues to attract black youth in droves? Hip hop was at one time a voice for the unheard and the unseen poor black people that no one cared two spits about. It was a response to the very sense of inferiority and oppression that racism fostered.

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Old 11-27-2011, 12:47 PM   #119
 
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Sienna, I know all about it. Why do you think hip hop is traditionally a politically charged mode of expression? Why do you think, even though the message has changed, that hip hop continues to attract black youth in droves? Hip hop was at one time a voice for the unheard and the unseen poor black people that no one cared two spits about. It was a response to the very sense of inferiority and oppression that racism fostered.

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Its attracting all youth in general in droves.

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Old 11-27-2011, 12:51 PM   #120
 
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That is institutionalized racism. When You make laws or promote behavior that denegrate another race. Jim Crow, slavery in & of itself, etc. civil rights changed that to an extent.

Racism is as simple as "I believe blacks are better than whites period". I don't have to ever act on the belief to be racist. I don't have to even tell anyone I feel this way. I am just a racist and a bigot and even a supremacist who feels my race is good & that the other race is bad.

Prejudice is "I don't hire women because they are too emotional. I talk to women, I have female friends, but women can't do what men can in the workplace." I discriminate against women because of my prejudice. If I said Asian women I would be racist & prejudiced & stupid on top of all that.

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Yeah, but very few if any Blacks actually believe this, though some may claim it.

If any is not an option. I just told you there are. I am not lying & I have been listening to black convo all my life. Also do you not know who tupac, malcolm x, boby seal, & huey p newton are? I didn't invent a theory.
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convo and expressing anger do not = racism...
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