White people and racism... no, it's not what you think

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Sienna, I know all about it. Why do you think hip hop is traditionally a politically charged mode of expression? Why do you think, even though the message has changed, that hip hop continues to attract black youth in droves? Hip hop was at one time a voice for the unheard and the unseen poor black people that no one cared two spits about. It was a response to the very sense of inferiority and oppression that racism fostered.

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Originally Posted by midgi
...and has nothing to do with the myth of racism against whites, which I thought was the topic...
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











Sienna, I know all about it. Why do you think hip hop is traditionally a politically charged mode of expression? Why do you think, even though the message has changed, that hip hop continues to attract black youth in droves? Hip hop was at one time a voice for the unheard and the unseen poor black people that no one cared two spits about. It was a response to the very sense of inferiority and oppression that racism fostered.

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Originally Posted by midgi
...and has nothing to do with the myth of racism against whites, which I thought was the topic...
Originally Posted by Amneris
Yes it does, if we are discussing the argument many have made that they have been the victim of racism at the hands if black people. The misperceptions many white people have about black people are directly related to how black people are depicted in popular culture.

My point is that people of color have historically been forced to resort to violence and other unorthodox methods of expression to make their voices heard, as is the case with almost all oppressed peoples throughout the world. People in positions of privilege and power often spin this to preserve their own aims, as further proof of the barbaric, unfit, and inferior nature of black people.

That is why "reverse racism" or racism against whites is nonsense. To claim as much is to demonstrate that you (gy) are living in a dream world in which your sense of entitlement and privilege has clouded your reality. To say as much demonstrates your inability to accept that as a white person, you have an advantage over all others. To say as much is to deny and reject over 500 years of legitimate, real-life, racism against people of color.


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Amneris and Ogo'm like this.
I just want to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
Yes. I used to get my arse kicked ALOT when I was younger, just for being white in a predominately black neighborhood. Nevermind I was a nice person, and still am, to everyone. All I'd get was "COME HERE WHITEY" followed by a beating.

Yet, this is somehow not as significant. Or not taken seriously. And I'm expected to suck it up and take it.
Originally Posted by evee103
Well, I guess you can always call the Klan and they can take care of it. I mean, that's how it was done back in the day, and even still in some areas.

Just a suggestion. The fallout from integration. I feel you, girl.
Originally Posted by curlyarca
Wow....I can't even.

Yeah, but very few if any Blacks actually believe this, though some may claim it.
Originally Posted by Amneris

If any is not an option. I just told you there are. I am not lying & I have been listening to black convo all my life. Also do you not know who tupac, malcolm x, boby seal, & huey p newton are? I didn't invent a theory.
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Originally Posted by sienna40
convo and expressing anger do not = racism...
Originally Posted by Amneris
Hate speech can incite violence against others. We know that group think is real. So based on that you can indoctrinate via speech. Ever seen american history x or higher learning? I know you are a sociology buff. Anger can breed violence.

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Evee103, it's not that your experience is insignificant or undeserving of being taken seriously. Everyone just needs to be clear on the fact that your experience does not indicate some sort of systemic, widespread oppression of white people, which would be very silly to suggest. The way that you write about getting your arse kicked for being white, it's clear that you expect this to surprise people - and that's because it isn't the common experience of white people all over and can't even approach the scale of attacks against black people in this country.
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OMG, LOOK!!

...It's a siggie.
Wait wait, so are you saying white people who endure harsh racism aren't valid/interesting/worthy of being discussed?
Originally Posted by evee103
I personally don't think that way. I think racism against whites is just as valid as racism against any other group. And I don't find that racism against whites needs to be compared and contrasted with the racism and bigotry that black people have faced in the USA in every instance. In my opinion, If you faced racism, then it's valid, period. The fact that blacks in the USA have faced it on a much more grand scale than white people in the USA doesn't mean white individuals that have faced it don't have a right to feel hurt, sad, or even angry about it. Frankly, I think it's very important to discuss in the proper context.

But then again, I'm not a person that believes in the idea that people not in power can't be racist. And I don't really like the idea of people tossing that out whenver racism against whites is mentioned. While I do believe in the concept of instutionalized (sp?) racism.. when I define the basic word, "racism" I define it as when a person believes that one race is superior over another. For instance, plenty of people that claim they aren't racist believe that white people in general are more intelligent than blacks and vice versa. To me, that's racist.

I can't say for sure what you experienced was racism or not. Who knows for sure what those people were thinking.. it may have been "we just don't want this white girl here because we feel more comfortable around out own kind (prejudice) or it could have very well been "black folks are better than white folks and she's white..so she needs to get her inferior butt beat." (Racism).I know that some people don't imagine blacks thinking that way because of the oppression of blacks in the USA..but indeed some do. I don't think (just my opinion) it's something that should be dismissed.
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Wait wait, so are you saying white people who endure harsh racism aren't valid/interesting/worthy of being discussed?
Originally Posted by evee103
I personally don't think that way. I think racism against whites is just as valid as racism against any other group. And I don't find that racism against whites needs to be compared and contrasted with the racism and bigotry that black people have faced in the USA in every instance. In my opinion, If you faced racism, then it's valid, period. The fact that blacks in the USA have faced it on a much more grand scale than white people in the USA doesn't mean white individuals that have faced it don't have a right to feel hurt, sad, or even angry about it. Frankly, I think it's very important to discuss in the proper context.

But then again, I'm not a person that believes in the idea that people not in power can't be racist. And I don't really like the idea of people tossing that out whenver racism against whites is mentioned. While I do believe in the concept of instutionalized (sp?) racism.. when I define the basic word, "racism" I define it as when a person believes that one race is superior over another. For instance, plenty of people that claim they aren't racist believe that white people in general are more intelligent than blacks and vice versa. To me, that's racist.

I can't say for sure what you experienced was racism or not. Who knows for sure what those people were thinking.. it may have been "we just don't want this white girl here because we feel more comfortable around out own kind (prejudice) or it could have very well been "black folks are better than white folks and she's white..so she needs to get her inferior butt beat." (Racism).I know that some people don't imagine blacks thinking that way because of the oppression of blacks in the USA..but indeed some do. I don't think (just my opinion) it's something that should be dismissed.
Originally Posted by *Marah*
Marah, but have you ever in your life heard any black individual say "that white girl is going to get her inferior butt beat?" I mean, really.

I totally respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it. I think that in the context of American culture, both historic and contemporary, "reverse racism" is a ploy white supremacists are using out of fear of becoming the minority. As my freshmen year history professor put it, it's literally a pot-meet-kettle situation.

I don't think you can actually entertain the notion that non white people can be racist against white people, without stepping dangerously close to that boundary that equates the two.

By default, a racist is in a position of power, because in order to have the dichotomy of superior versus inferior, one group of people is presumed to be more powerful than the other. That is a given, and shouldn't even be a point of contention. If that was not the case, American slavery and segregation wouldn't have existed at all.

I know some black people who are uncomfortable around white people. My own grandmother told my father that she didnt like my mother because she said she had "those evil white people eyes like a cat." This was in 1988. In other words, I don't believe some black people hate white people because they think they are better than them. Instead, their distrust of white people is a reaction to the collective social experience of racism.

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I just want to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
I was never suggesting that white people as a whole have been treated worse. Definitely not, over the long run it is black people who have endured the most.

But I am trying to say that when some white people are victims of racism, prejudice, or hate crimes, that it's generally never taken as seriously. And it should be.

Although this is less common, when white people ARE attacked, it's usually at an extreme level, ex: getting jumped, beaten, shot, stabbed, etc. Which is why more people need to speak out about this.
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Marah, but have you ever in your life heard any black individual say "that white girl is going to get her inferior butt beat?" I mean, really.
Originally Posted by midgi
No. I was just using an example. But I have in my life many times heard black people saying that blacks are superior to whites in many different ways. IE: intelligence,sports, music, poetry, moral values, invention, raising kids, etc. And this was not coming from some stupid people either with no education. I've heard this from very highly educated blacks in closed circles among only other blacks.

I totally respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it. I think that in the context of American culture, both historic and contemporary, "reverse racism" is a ploy white supremacists are using out of fear of becoming the minority. As my freshmen year history professor put it, it's literally a pot-meet-kettle situation.
The respect is certainly mutual. My position is that when a white individual faces racism it doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with what some white supremacist has cooked up in their twisted mind. Reverse racism in my mind is ridiculous. Racism is racism.. it is what it is..doesn't matter who the victim is or isn't. It's still important and valid. And I didn't get the impression eevo (sp?) was suggesting reverse racism or that she's a white supremacist (given I could be wrong on both counts.)

I don't think you can actually entertain the notion that non white people can be racist against white people, without stepping dangerously close to that boundary that equates the two.
I respectfully disagree.

By default, a racist is in a position of power, because in order to have the dichotomy of superior versus inferior, one group of people is presumed to be more powerful than the other. That is a given, and shouldn't even be a point of contention. If that was not the case, American slavery and segregation wouldn't have existed at all.
Not to me. A person's thoughts that they are superior because of their race automatically makes them racist. Doesn't matter if their specific race is in some sort of power or not. I think it's a cop out when I hear black people act and say things that are racist as hell and then hide behind, "Well I'm black and white folks are in power.. so I can't be racist."

I know some black people who are uncomfortable around white people. My own grandmother told my father that she didnt like my mother because she said she had "those evil white people eyes like a cat." This was in 1988. In other words, I don't believe some black people hate white people because they think they are better than them. Instead, their distrust of white people is a reaction to the collective social experience of racism.

Sent from The Brick
Yeah.. I've heard that too..many people in the black side of my family have light eyes as well...and I can recall growing up hearing "with those damn cat eyes looking just like these evil ass white folks!" My cousin's husband has blue eyes (he's black..just light skinned) and he said he was called "blue eyed devil" all his life. So I totally understand that entirely. And I definitely understand the mistrust. But I for sure know for a fact that there are black people that believe whites are inferior to blacks in every sense of the word. And I heard it DIRECTLY from black people. I can go into stuff that has been said to me (by blacks) about being mixed (given it's with Jew..LOL) that has been said that supposedly makes me inferior. Given, I've heard the reverse from whites too. But I will stop there in this post.
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^^^I'd agree with this (I meant midgi). I'm thinking back and I have never heard a black person say they dislike white people because they feel whites are inferior (I'm aware that if I haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it's not true, but it logically wouldn't make sense given the treatment of blacks throughout history.). It's often due to distrust or bitterness regarding the past (or hell, even the present).

@evee, If I could take a wild guess, I'd say you were beaten up because they felt as if you didn't belong in that neighborhood because you are white. And in all honesty, the fact that you are failing to understand where other posters are coming from...speaks volumes.
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I was never suggesting that white people as a whole have been treated worse. Definitely not, over the long run it is black people who have endured the most.
Originally Posted by evee103
I didn't think you were.

But I am trying to say that when some white people are victims of racism, prejudice, or hate crimes, that it's generally never taken as seriously. And it should be.
Your points weren't lost on me. I get what you are conveying and agree.

Although this is less common, when white people ARE attacked, it's usually at an extreme level, ex: getting jumped, beaten, shot, stabbed, etc. Which is why more people need to speak out about this.
Agreed. And this is why I don't think it should be just dismissed. Because what I would hope most decent people are trying to do is combat racism and hate crime in all forms and if the dialogue is completely shut down and things against other groups (besides blacks) are not acknowledged then the cycle continues in my opinon.
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^^^I'd agree with this (I meant midgi). I'm thinking back and I have never heard a black person say they dislike white people because they feel whites are inferior (I'm aware that if I haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it's not true, but it logically wouldn't make sense given the treatment of blacks throughout history.). It's often due to distrust or bitterness regarding the past (or hell, even the present).

@evee, If I could take a wild guess, I'd say you were beaten up because they felt as if you didn't belong in that neighborhood because you are white. And in all honesty, the fact that you are failing to understand where other posters are coming from...speaks volumes.
Originally Posted by CurlyElectra

I am not failing to understand anything. That IS why they beat me up. But sorry, that's no excuse for violence. Like, excuse me for living there.

Now let's give the same scenario, but switching up the kids. What if a bunch of white kids beat up a black kid just because she was black, and they didn't want her living in "their" neighborhood.

Again, no excuse for violence.
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^^^I'd agree with this (I meant midgi). I'm thinking back and I have never heard a black person say they dislike white people because they feel whites are inferior (I'm aware that if I haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it's not true, but it logically wouldn't make sense given the treatment of blacks throughout history.). It's often due to distrust or bitterness regarding the past (or hell, even the present).

@evee, If I could take a wild guess, I'd say you were beaten up because they felt as if you didn't belong in that neighborhood because you are white. And in all honesty, the fact that you are failing to understand where other posters are coming from...speaks volumes.
Originally Posted by CurlyElectra

I am not failing to understand anything. That IS why they beat me up. But sorry, that's no excuse for violence. Like, excuse me for living there.

Now let's give the same scenario, but switching up the kids. What if a bunch of white kids beat up a black kid just because she was black, and they didn't want her living in "their" neighborhood.

Again, no excuse for violence.
Originally Posted by evee103
If you read what I posted a page or so back (depending on how many posts you have per page) about what Saria said, that's my sentiment again. NO ONE in this thread HAS EVER expressed an excuse for violence. NO ONE. Yet you keep dwelling on it...anyway, I'm done.
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No, but some people keep trying to justify it.
No, but some people keep trying to justify it.
Originally Posted by evee103
Evee, hun, nobody is trying to justify it. We are just trying to get you to understand the difference between the two terms.
No, but some people keep trying to justify it.
Originally Posted by evee103
Can you please quote these posts, because I haven't seen that in here either.
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No, but some people keep trying to justify it.
Originally Posted by evee103
Evee, hun, nobody is trying to justify it. We are just trying to get you to understand the difference between the two terms.
Originally Posted by favoritecolorblu
Seems to me she gets the difference just fine now if she didn't before. Doesn't change or invalidate her points.

But that's the thing.. just because these were black people beating her up doesn't mean they didn't do it for racist reasons rather than them just being prejudice. No one knows for sure besides these individuals that physically attacked her. Black people can be racist just like anyone else.
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^^^I'd agree with this (I meant midgi). I'm thinking back and I have never heard a black person say they dislike white people because they feel whites are inferior (I'm aware that if I haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it's not true, but it logically wouldn't make sense given the treatment of blacks throughout history.). It's often due to distrust or bitterness regarding the past (or hell, even the present).

@evee, If I could take a wild guess, I'd say you were beaten up because they felt as if you didn't belong in that neighborhood because you are white. And in all honesty, the fact that you are failing to understand where other posters are coming from...speaks volumes.
Originally Posted by CurlyElectra

I am not failing to understand anything. That IS why they beat me up. But sorry, that's no excuse for violence. Like, excuse me for living there.

Now let's give the same scenario, but switching up the kids. What if a bunch of white kids beat up a black kid just because she was black, and they didn't want her living in "their" neighborhood.

Again, no excuse for violence.
Originally Posted by evee103
Regarding the second paragraph, there you go, you're trying to equate the two and it's not the same. White people haven't been oppressed by black people for hundreds of years. White people don't live in a world where it's been drilled into their heads that they're inferior.
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^^^I'd agree with this (I meant midgi). I'm thinking back and I have never heard a black person say they dislike white people because they feel whites are inferior (I'm aware that if I haven't experienced it, it doesn't mean it's not true, but it logically wouldn't make sense given the treatment of blacks throughout history.). It's often due to distrust or bitterness regarding the past (or hell, even the present).

@evee, If I could take a wild guess, I'd say you were beaten up because they felt as if you didn't belong in that neighborhood because you are white. And in all honesty, the fact that you are failing to understand where other posters are coming from...speaks volumes.
Originally Posted by CurlyElectra

I am not failing to understand anything. That IS why they beat me up. But sorry, that's no excuse for violence. Like, excuse me for living there.

Now let's give the same scenario, but switching up the kids. What if a bunch of white kids beat up a black kid just because she was black, and they didn't want her living in "their" neighborhood.

Again, no excuse for violence.
Originally Posted by evee103
Regarding the second paragraph, there you go, you're trying to equate the two and it's not the same. White people haven't been oppressed by black people for hundreds of years. White people don't live in a world where it's been drilled into their heads that they're inferior.
Originally Posted by Saria
But yes, they are the same. See this is what I think is messed up. If I get beat up it's not as bad as a black person getting beat up? We're both human beings, and we both don't deserve such treatment.

I'm done.
**Throws up hands in utter disbelief and despair**

I'm out.
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