Distressing

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Yup. Lots of reports recently about women sitting in the backs of buses, etc., too. These aren't new practices for the community, but they've been widely publicized latel,y largely due to media moneymongering toward the world-wide conerns about the Settlements.

Israel's Haredi population, which has become quite large, is going through many of the same problems (and often behaving strangely)as some of New York's Hasidim. These strict rules are really not very different from behaviors of any extremist religious groups, or cults.

They usually twist for curls. No curling irons on Shabbat!

Please keep in mind that the aforementioned book is one woman's story, and one woman's point of view. It sounds like she has some nutjobs in her family...and don't we all?! Poor woman, and her poor son! There are so many horror stories like this...too many delusional people, that's for sure.

Congrats, mazel tov, YAY! on your pregnancy!
Originally Posted by gardencurls
That was exactly my point in posting.
These strict rules are really not very different from behaviors of any extremist religious groups, or cults.
Originally Posted by gardencurls


All religions are cults.
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I was trying to think of what extremist views my (mostly, sort of) identifying religion has (Episcopalianism). There's the struggle from the African celebrants and Bishops to separate because of the ordination of gay priests here in the U.S., but other than that, I can't really think of much (besides the fact of the very reason Henry VIII instituted the Church of England).

Not claiming E.'s are "above" anything; just not sure what. We're kind of milquetoast.

Anyone knowing otherwise, feel free to share. Maybe I'm missing something?
To me, all these fanatic religions are virtually interchangeable. They all think they are "the ones" and they know "the answers." Supreme arrogance.

I don't know the answer to the question about religious tolerance and what should be done. Good point, though.

Your comment about the ringlets the men wear made me giggle. I wonder if they are cg?
Originally Posted by curlypearl
My baby naturally has a pint-sized version of those ringlets!
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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali












My baby naturally has a pint-sized version of those ringlets!
Originally Posted by Amneris


Pics?
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I love hanging ringlets. Love them.

"If you pull very lightly on a ringlet, it bounces."

Sincerely,
Tigger

My baby naturally has a pint-sized version of those ringlets!
Originally Posted by Amneris


Pics?
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves
I can't remember my photobucket password. Lazy me needs to figure out the best way to share pics on here. What is everyone using?
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











On the main issue, I think religion is a part of the problem, but only a part. I think wherever there are tight, isolated communities there is the risk of these things happening. I think it was Pitcairn Island where there was a scandal a few years ago? Tiny, isolated community, no religious angle that I recall hearing about, and there was horrific incest and abuse going on out of the public eye.

I think the "extreme" version of any religion is vulnerable to this because it tends to be an isolated community that pulls together because it is often regarded suspiciously by others... and when people literally have the fear of God put in them if they don't comply, it heightens the risk. I'm thinking of the Mormon sects that have polygamy, the extreme Catholic sects that live in their own towns, the Jewish communities referred to here, etcetera etcetera. So-called "mainstream" religions are less vulnerable because they are open to a variety of influences, not just the religious groupthink - they're in public schools, universities, the secular workplace, they use the mainstream media, they have friends from a variety of backgrounds. All these things are banned by the more "extreme" religions.
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Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











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Pitcairn Island? Don't they have trouble with inbreeding anyway? I read something about them recently, too; perhaps that everyone has similar DNA (is that possible?) or blood type? I may have to look it up. I'm kind of fascinated with them genetically.
----
Absolutely: it's the isolation which sets the stage for disaster. I also don't understand the logic of the faith described: "God will take care of it," but only if you follow these obscure, nearly medieval rules? What possible purpose does it serve to shave your head, only to wear a wig?

The women who willingly follow these rules --- if there are any, given the social pressure they face -- are one thing, but the girls who are conscripted are another.

I find it deeply saddening.
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From InfoPlease:

Paradise Lost

In recent years, however, a sexual abuse scandal has cast a deep shadow over the island. Accounts of the victimization of women and young girls on Pitcairn began surfacing in 1999. Seven men–more than half the adult male population of the island–were charged with 96 counts of abuse, including rape and sexual assault. Some of the charges dated back four decades. Subject to British law, the accused faced trial in October 2004 on Pitcairn. Three judges, a number of lawyers, and legal staff members made the 3,000-mile journey to Pitcairn from New Zealand. Eight women, all former Pitcairn Islanders, testified by video link from Auckland, New Zealand.

On Oct. 29, 2004, four men were convicted of multiple sex offenses and received jail sentences of up to six years; two others were sentenced to community service. Jay Warren, the island's magistrate, was found innocent. The appeals of all four men were dismissed, and they are currently being jailed on Pitcairn and guarded by a prison staff from New Zealand.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect

Last edited by ninja dog; 02-08-2012 at 06:11 PM.
These strict rules are really not very different from behaviors of any extremist religious groups, or cults.
Originally Posted by gardencurls
That was exactly my point in posting.
Originally Posted by ninja dog
Of course!

I was acknowledging your point by adding further examples of intolerance and cruelty imposed by extremist religions.

Humans are different from other animals because we have the ability to communicate our delusions in such a way that we ensure our own extinction.

Religious tolerance is a bit of an oxymoron, isn't it?

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[QUOTE=Amneris;1881059]On the main issue, I think religion is a part of the problem, but only a part. I think wherever there are tight, isolated communities there is the risk of these things happening.

I think the "extreme" version of any religion is vulnerable to this because it tends to be an isolated community that pulls together because it is often regarded suspiciously by others... and when people literally have the fear of God put in them if they don't comply, it heightens the risk. [QUOTE]

That makes perfect sense. I think you're right Amneris. Wasn't there a movie about a village some years ago, where everyone in the village lived in fear because they were taught that they were surrounded by monsters? It turned out they were pretty much "zoo" animals living in the middle of a nature preserve? (Something like that. I didn't see the movie but I heard about it.)

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I don't know why, but somehow this description makes me think of that old show "The Prisoner", wherein Patrick McGoohan was chased by a big white orb.

I disliked that show.
Wasn't there a movie about a village some years ago, where everyone in the village lived in fear because they were taught that they were surrounded by monsters? It turned out they were pretty much "zoo" animals living in the middle of a nature preserve? (Something like that. I didn't see the movie but I heard about it.)
Originally Posted by gardencurls


That movie was called The Village.

They weren't gawked at like zoo animals, but they were oppressed.
The way I see it, tolerance is about accepting that individuals are free to believe what they want and people shouldn't discriminate against each other on account of having different faiths. I don't think it means we all have to accept everyone's religion as equally valid (which is logically impossible, because religions themselves aren't tolerant and are usually mutually excluding). I don't even think it's fair to ask we respect them. I can respect the people, the culture, the history, but not the doctrines if I don't agree with them and especially if I believe they are designed to deny people of their human rights or to keep them in ignorance.
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