Heated Debate

rainshower's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,000
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
"Dogs stink too, but I like dog stink." ~ rileyb
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I don't support abortion, but even if the man is prepared to do all that, the woman still has to go through pregnancy and labour, which is NOT easy when you want the child - who's going to do it when they don't? That's just the way biology works and both men and women have to just accept it - women bear the children. If a man wants a child, then either get involved in a relationship with someone else who does or adopt or whatever. It doesn't make sense to have a fling with someone and then suddenly you decide you want her to have the baby when things have not been discussed beforehand.
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I don't support abortion, but even if the man is prepared to do all that, the woman still has to go through pregnancy and labour, which is NOT easy when you want the child - who's going to do it when they don't? That's just the way biology works and both men and women have to just accept it - women bear the children. If a man wants a child, then either get involved in a relationship with someone else who does or adopt or whatever. It doesn't make sense to have a fling with someone and then suddenly you decide you want her to have the baby when things have not been discussed beforehand.
Originally Posted by Amneris
Amneris - you're on a roll. I agree with this completely.
Better everyone think your a fool, than to open your mouth and prove them right.

Perception is not reality.

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i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
What about the flip side , which I have actually seen happen more than once, where the woman does not want the child and wants to abort or adopt and the man talks her into it, says he will support them, help them etc. etc. and then the child comes and he bails and the woman is left exactly where she did not want to be - on her own with a child?
Get used to me. Black, confident, cocky; my name, not yours; my religion, not yours; my goals, my own; get used to me. -Muhammad Ali











All parties responsible for creating the child should have to pay. Period.

What if the mother were to hand the child over and simply say - I didn't want the child, but don't believe in abortion. This is your kid too, you raise it. Then what? If more women would do this (not suggesting that they should this is just for sake of discussion), then more men would be willing to pay.

Many (certainly not all) men who live with the mother of their children don't do anything to help raise the kids, how many single guys are going to want to do it all on their own?
Originally Posted by three rivers curly
This would be an interesting precedent is this happened. Would the mother be responsible for child support in this case?

Should be.

The male should be allowed to have a say in the abortion process if he is against it and willing to care for the child. Then he should have the ability to receive child support from the mother.

Like said. It is a 2 way consensual encounter for both.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
Absolutely. Everyone involved is responsible for the child.
Better everyone think your a fool, than to open your mouth and prove them right.

Perception is not reality.

http://public.fotki.com/hmiklos
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
Originally Posted by internetchick
I'd have trouble with the breast feeding part but I would be all over the rest. Now or when I was 19. And its not about pro or anti abortion for me. Of course for me it would have been about what the woman wanted most anyway. But if she couldn't abort but didn't want to be involved I would probably rather choose to be the father and not place the child up for adoption. That outcome scares me.
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
Originally Posted by internetchick
It has been addressed legally, but not in a high court.
link

There are other cases too, all with similar rulings.
Under construction.
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
Originally Posted by internetchick
I'd have trouble with the breast feeding part but I would be all over the rest. Now or when I was 19. And its not about pro or anti abortion for me. Of course for me it would have been about what the woman wanted most anyway. But if she couldn't abort but didn't want to be involved I would probably rather choose to be the father and not place the child up for adoption. That outcome scares me.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
I know there are men out there that would, just not too many. And I am not saying that because I think men can't do it, but because I think many men are not secure in their parenting abilities. I think that comes from the bumbling father stereotype that just won't die.
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
Originally Posted by internetchick
It has been addressed legally, but not in a high court.
link

There are other cases too, all with similar rulings.
Originally Posted by Befrizzled
Well, I was meaning a law being put into effect. It's sad that these issues are not given more attention.
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
Originally Posted by internetchick
It has been addressed legally, but not in a high court.
link

There are other cases too, all with similar rulings.
Originally Posted by Befrizzled
Well, I was meaning a law being put into effect. It's sad that these issues are not given more attention.
Originally Posted by internetchick
Agreed.
Under construction.
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I honestly don't think many men would do this, which is why I don't think it's really been addressed legally. I don't think there are enough men who would want to raise a child without a woman to help to get the wheels of change moving.
Originally Posted by internetchick
I'd have trouble with the breast feeding part but I would be all over the rest. Now or when I was 19. And its not about pro or anti abortion for me. Of course for me it would have been about what the woman wanted most anyway. But if she couldn't abort but didn't want to be involved I would probably rather choose to be the father and not place the child up for adoption. That outcome scares me.
Originally Posted by GuardianB
I know there are men out there that would, just not too many. And I am not saying that because I think men can't do it, but because I think many men are not secure in their parenting abilities. I think that comes from the bumbling father stereotype that just won't die.
Originally Posted by internetchick
all I heard was blah blah blah women are better then men blah blah blah

j/k
~Two friends, one soul inspired~ anonymous
But, can men really be tricked when they know even if the woman says she is on birth control that it can still fail? Aren't they still agreeing to support a oopsie?
Originally Posted by internetchick
Sorry for my poor explanation. What I was saying is that many women intentionally skip their pills to get pregnant or just simply lie and say it's covered. But, like I said, ultimately, nothing is fail safe except NOT having sex.....so yes, they are still responsible.
Handle every stressful situation like a dog. If you can't eat it or hump it.....Piss on it and walk away.
Location - WI
all I heard was blah blah blah women are better then men blah blah blah

j/k
Originally Posted by GuardianB
rainshower's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,000
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I don't support abortion, but even if the man is prepared to do all that, the woman still has to go through pregnancy and labour, which is NOT easy when you want the child - who's going to do it when they don't? That's just the way biology works and both men and women have to just accept it - women bear the children. If a man wants a child, then either get involved in a relationship with someone else who does or adopt or whatever. It doesn't make sense to have a fling with someone and then suddenly you decide you want her to have the baby when things have not been discussed beforehand.
Originally Posted by Amneris
i actually agree with you. i just really want to know how many men have been in that situation.
"Dogs stink too, but I like dog stink." ~ rileyb
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I don't support abortion, but even if the man is prepared to do all that, the woman still has to go through pregnancy and labour, which is NOT easy when you want the child - who's going to do it when they don't? That's just the way biology works and both men and women have to just accept it - women bear the children. If a man wants a child, then either get involved in a relationship with someone else who does or adopt or whatever. It doesn't make sense to have a fling with someone and then suddenly you decide you want her to have the baby when things have not been discussed beforehand.
Originally Posted by Amneris
i actually agree with you. i just really want to know how many men have been in that situation.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I agree with Amneris, except the part about being against abortion (I'm not).

But of course, people do have unplanned pregnancies from a fling. Because it's the woman's body, I think she is the one who should ultimately decide whether the pregnancy should be terminated or not.

And I think either parent who is not caring for the child should have to pay child support. Child support is for the welfare of the child, so it shouldn't matter whether one parent wanted to terminate the pregnancy or not. It's not about pregnancy anymore, because now there is a child who has been born and needs to be raised.

i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I don't support abortion, but even if the man is prepared to do all that, the woman still has to go through pregnancy and labour, which is NOT easy when you want the child - who's going to do it when they don't? That's just the way biology works and both men and women have to just accept it - women bear the children. If a man wants a child, then either get involved in a relationship with someone else who does or adopt or whatever. It doesn't make sense to have a fling with someone and then suddenly you decide you want her to have the baby when things have not been discussed beforehand.
Originally Posted by Amneris
i actually agree with you. i just really want to know how many men have been in that situation.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I agree with Amneris, except the part about being against abortion (I'm not).

But of course, people do have unplanned pregnancies from a fling. Because it's the woman's body, I think she is the one who should ultimately decide whether the pregnancy should be terminated or not.

And I think either parent who is not caring for the child should have to pay child support. Child support is for the welfare of the child, so it shouldn't matter whether one parent wanted to terminate the pregnancy or not. It's not about pregnancy anymore, because now there is a child who has been born and needs to be raised.
Originally Posted by iris427
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i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I have a close male friend whose wife did this to him last year. Very tragic, especially in light of the fact that he has been raising her child from a previous relationship as his own and is a great father.

I guess I can't actually say that she did it against his wishes since she didn't even bother to tell him about the pregnancy until after she had the abortion.

Horrible.
3C, BSL Unstretched -
i wonder how many women have aborted against the wishes of their boyfriends, who would have been prepared to pay the prenatal/medical expenses and be single dads, if only the women had simply carried the babies to term.
Originally Posted by rainshower
I have a close male friend whose wife did this to him last year. Very tragic, especially in light of the fact that he has been raising her child from a previous relationship as his own and is a great father.

I guess I can't actually say that she did it against his wishes since she didn't even bother to tell him about the pregnancy until after she had the abortion.

Horrible.
Originally Posted by solange
Like in the Godfather, sort of.

It's a difficult issue but there's no way to make laws that are going to make people behave the way they should. There's always going to be some people that take abuse their legal rights like women who stop their birth control in the hopes of a baby leading to marriage, a relationship, or even child support.
If there were more people on earth who desired their own happiness more than the unhappiness of others we would have a paradise ~ Bertrand Russell

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