Horrible dumb guy: "Stay away from Black people" - Page 5

Josephine · 04-11-2012, 08:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Springcurl

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Originally Posted by iroc

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Originally Posted by Amneris

I didn't think anyone was accusing ninja dog & co. of lying. I did think that the breakdown was occurring because some of the white posters were making comments that could be seen as flippant to some posters of colour - I am sure the white posters meant well and were trying to lighten the mood or show solidarity, but it came off to me as a little unintentionally irritating. I can understand the need to separate yourself from ignorance like the original post detailed, but sometimes, what is offered with good intentions (a statement that not all white people are like that) can come across as minimizing the experiences people of colour have had (in my humble opinion.) I think this is a common scenario on NC and in real life too.

I personally doubt that most white racists are crass enough to openly tell their kids to "stay away from Black people", so I wouldn't expect that many white people were told that so blatantly. I think the message is sent subtly and non-verbally in most cases, so that people may not even realize that they have received and learned it. Hence why white people worry about the ghetto, and thugs, and certain neighbourhoods, and "scary" people, and "trust their instincts" and "don't talk to strangers" and never once think they are being racist (people in general, not necessarily those on this board or thread.)

You perceiving our comments as flippant, or minimizing your experiences is the same as us seeing your responses as accusing us of lying, or feeling defensive about responses made.

Being that these conversations are online, and its hard to judge intent, maybe understanding and tolerance should be given on both sides.

I don't have black people in my personal life at present. I rely on this board to get my experience and understanding of your opinions on certain subjects.

I think a lot of people would like to be involved in the conversation, and its hard to know where to step sometimes.

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It's gonna be one of those things where if, in a discussion about people of color and racism, someone says to you, "What you've said is offensive and here's why," it's best to just accept that rather than insisting you didn't mean it. Sometimes you just have to take our word for it.

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It's not even that, people jump to conclusions and think they are being attacked when they are not. No one said anything offensive, but somewhat ignorant. I think some people just have trouble accepting they are ignorant on some issues and get all defensive about it. Not having knowledge of certain issues does not equal purposely burying your head in the sand and dismissing facts when you hear them.

I get that it's annoying when someone says 'really you didn't know that and give you that wtf look', people have done that to me, but I don't cry about it and keep it moving. At least now I know.

iroc · 04-11-2012, 08:39 AM

I didn't realize giving my experiences was going to be taken as if I was saying I didn't know it happened. The two are not interchangeable. I consider being called ignorant an insult.

I'm sorry to have derailed your thread. I've been following it this whole time and have found it interesting. Out of respect to the conversation, I will bow out now.

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Josephine · 04-11-2012, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iroc

I didn't realize giving my experiences was going to be taken as if I was saying I didn't know it happened. The two are not interchangeable. I consider being called ignorant an insult.

Here is the disconnect. You did say you don't know it happened. Sorry you see being called ignorant an insult. It does not have to be although I realize it can be in certain situations. I am ignorant on many issues that I would like to learn more about. Being ignorant is not the same as being dumb.

CurlyElectra · 04-11-2012, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by Josephine

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Originally Posted by iroc

I didn't realize giving my experiences was going to be taken as if I was saying I didn't know it happened. The two are not interchangeable. I consider being called ignorant an insult.

Here is the disconnect. You did say you don't know it happened. Sorry you see being called ignorant an insult. It does not have to be although I realize it can be in certain situations. I am ignorant on many issues that I would like to learn more about. Being ignorant is not the same as being dumb.

Exactly. If you don't know something, you're ignorant to it. I don't understand why people automatically take that as an insult. People mix up ignorant and stupid all the time. The issue isn't being ignorant (like, I'm ignorant about sports stats), it's when you're ignorant about something important and you won't admit to it, or you (gy) won't recognize that it happens because you can't speak on it from a personal POV.

curlypearl · 04-11-2012, 09:26 AM

"Ignorant" is a word with negative baggage for a lot of people. Maybe we should use "unaware?"

iroc · 04-11-2012, 09:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Josephine

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Originally Posted by iroc

I didn't realize giving my experiences was going to be taken as if I was saying I didn't know it happened. The two are not interchangeable. I consider being called ignorant an insult.

Here is the disconnect. You did say you don't know it happened. Sorry you see being called ignorant an insult. It does not have to be although I realize it can be in certain situations. I am ignorant on many issues that I would like to learn more about. Being ignorant is not the same as being dumb.

No I did not. I never said that. Go back and read my posts. If you drew a different conclusion from that, thats not on me.

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emthefantastical · 04-11-2012, 10:03 AM

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Originally Posted by Saria

Honestly, the problem is the need to derail with how not all white people are like that, "but I'm not one of those", "now you're being just as bad", and the general defensiveness when discussing these issues. Great, this doesn't apply to you, so why are you making it about you?

This. I see this a lot in class discussions in regards to race. A PoC will bring up some experience they have and at least one white person will say, "but there are good white people!!! Were not all like that!!!".

Kilajo · 04-11-2012, 10:12 AM

Some white folks where I grew up were told to stay away from "colored" folks. There was a petition drive to keep black people from moving into one particular neighborhood which with my rebel parents we promptly moved into. I also had friends cancel parties because their parents said I wasn't welcome to their house and they couldn't play with me anymore after the parents found out I was a POC although they did anyway at school. I remember one family told their foreign exchange student (from Germany who adored my brother--nothing romantic, not that that would have been wrong either) she couldn't come to our house where my brother and his friends (white) were planning a going away party for her. So they had to do it at one of his white friend's house. The list goes on and on and on from my experiences of some white folks being told to stay away from the big, bad wolf...I mean black people or POCs.

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Josephine · 04-11-2012, 10:32 AM

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Originally Posted by SuZenGuide

"Ignorant" is a word with negative baggage for a lot of people. Maybe we should use "unaware?"

Wow no disrespect but I don't tip toe around over sensitivity. This is not a forum for children.

04-11-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephine

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Originally Posted by SuZenGuide

"Ignorant" is a word with negative baggage for a lot of people. Maybe we should use "unaware?"

Wow no disrespect but I don't tip toe around over sensitivity. This is not a forum for children.

Actually I wasn't trying to tell people here what word to use, it was more of a philosophical question. We all are familiar with words that were originally not offensive, but have later taken on negative connotations. This might be one of them. Carry on.

CurlyElectra · 04-11-2012, 10:43 AM

Ignorant has a negative connotation a lot of the time because a lot of people don't even know what it means. I've gotten in several discussions with folks (not on this site) and I'll throw out the word ignorant and they reply, "I'm not stupid!!!" Right...I didn't call you stupid.

In fact, I don't like it when people call racists ignorant because most of the time, they know exactly what they are saying and they know racism is wrong. It's like a cop out.

Josephine · 04-11-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iroc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephine

Quote:

Originally Posted by iroc

I didn't realize giving my experiences was going to be taken as if I was saying I didn't know it happened. The two are not interchangeable. I consider being called ignorant an insult.

Here is the disconnect. You did say you don't know it happened. Sorry you see being called ignorant an insult. It does not have to be although I realize it can be in certain situations. I am ignorant on many issues that I would like to learn more about. Being ignorant is not the same as being dumb.

No I did not. I never said that. Go back and read my posts. If you drew a different conclusion from that, thats not on me.

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My bad, that was another poster. I got confused since you mentioned you never heard that yourself. Like the others, I don't see the point of mentioning that...

wild~hair · 04-11-2012, 12:09 PM

This is the inevitable association in my own brain...probably many of you aren't old enough to remember this.

Apologies for the joke, I know it's a serious subject.

Eilonwy · 04-11-2012, 12:46 PM

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Originally Posted by emthefantastical

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Originally Posted by Saria

Honestly, the problem is the need to derail with how not all white people are like that

I see this a lot in class discussions in regards to race.

Yeah, if people from a non-dominant group are talking about the problems they face as part of that group, it's not the time for someone from the dominant group to say "Well what about me?!"

The dominant group gets to talk all the time, without censure. So if people from a non-dominant group have the floor, it's not right to police their phrasing.

murrrcat · 04-11-2012, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuZenGuide

This is the inevitable association in my own brain...probably many of you aren't old enough to remember this.

Apologies for the joke, I know it's a serious subject.

I like to quote Michael Scott from the office when he calls Dwight an ignorant slut

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Springcurl · 04-11-2012, 01:13 PM

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Originally Posted by Eilonwy

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Originally Posted by emthefantastical

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Originally Posted by Saria

Honestly, the problem is the need to derail with how not all white people are like that

I see this a lot in class discussions in regards to race.

Yeah, if people from a non-dominant group are talking about the problems they face as part of that group, it's not the time for someone from the dominant group to say "Well what about me?!"

And WHY? Is it fear that suddenly they won't get noticed any more? I comment on a Facebook page/newspaper called The Root. There's been a lot of discussion about Trayvon Martin. I'm astounded by the number of white people that have joined seemingly just to say, "Well, what about the case in Florida where a black man killed two white tourists?" Or (and seen here as well) "Trayvon's not so innocent. Wait until you hear about what a thug he was." Or, "All crimes are hate crimes."

What's the reason for this?

Eilonwy · 04-11-2012, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springcurl

What's the reason for this?

Well, I'm not talking about Iroc. But I think there's two main reasons. The first is that people don't like being confronted with their privilege. And the second is that members of a dominant group aren't used to being spoken of collectively. They're used to hearing "Black people do X," or "Women do X," stuff like that. So it's shocking for them to hear "White people do X," or "Men do X."

wild~hair · 04-11-2012, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilonwy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springcurl

What's the reason for this?

Well, I'm not talking about Iroc. But I think there's two main reasons. The first is that people don't like being confronted with their privilege. And the second is that members of a dominant group aren't used to being spoken of collectively. They're used to hearing "Black people do X," or "Women do X," stuff like that. So it's shocking for them to hear "White people do X," or "Men do X."

I agree with both these observations and I can claim personal experience with the first.

I think if you are aware you have privilege and you're not allowing yourself to feel discomfort about it on a regular basis, you're doing it wrong.

Josephine · 04-11-2012, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springcurl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilonwy

Quote:

Originally Posted by emthefantastical

I see this a lot in class discussions in regards to race.

Yeah, if people from a non-dominant group are talking about the problems they face as part of that group, it's not the time for someone from the dominant group to say "Well what about me?!"

And WHY? Is it fear that suddenly they won't get noticed any more? I comment on a Facebook page/newspaper called The Root. There's been a lot of discussion about Trayvon Martin. I'm astounded by the number of white people that have joined seemingly just to say, "Well, what about the case in Florida where a black man killed two white tourists?" Or (and seen here as well) "Trayvon's not so innocent. Wait until you hear about what a thug he was." Or, "All crimes are hate crimes."

What's the reason for this?

I don't know but recent examle for me..I was racially discriminated against at my previous job and I have had discussions when I started with a coworker I was close with (liberal, gay white male) that one of my main concerns as a colored female at a workplace is to make sure they are fair. He didn't get it at all. In the end I was right as I thought, the company was not fair. He agreed (he was surprised I was right, of course I was not surprised at all) but proceeded to tell me how at his last job they give minorities unfair advantages and they did that in the army too. Of course don't mention the decades and standard of unfair advantage that white men have in general. When I bring that up they don't want to hear it but they go on and on and on about that one or two or three times in their life they've faced reverse discrimination. Give me a ****ing break. This is why I choose to avoid racial discussions with white men no matter how intelligent or liberal they seem. I know they exist but I have never come across any that truly get it.

04-11-2012, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josephine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Springcurl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eilonwy

Yeah, if people from a non-dominant group are talking about the problems they face as part of that group, it's not the time for someone from the dominant group to say "Well what about me?!"

And WHY? Is it fear that suddenly they won't get noticed any more? I comment on a Facebook page/newspaper called The Root. There's been a lot of discussion about Trayvon Martin. I'm astounded by the number of white people that have joined seemingly just to say, "Well, what about the case in Florida where a black man killed two white tourists?" Or (and seen here as well) "Trayvon's not so innocent. Wait until you hear about what a thug he was." Or, "All crimes are hate crimes."

What's the reason for this?

I don't know but recent examle for me..I was racially discriminated against at my previous job and I have had discussions when I started with a coworker I was close with (liberal, gay white male) that one of my main concerns as a colored female at a workplace is to make sure they are fair. He didn't get it at all. In the end I was right as I thought, the company was not fair. He agreed (he was surprised I was right, of course I was not surprised at all) but proceeded to tell me how at his last job they give minorities unfair advantages and they did that in the army too. Of course don't mention the decades and standard of unfair advantage that white men have in general. When I bring that up they don't want to hear it but they go on and on and on about that one or two or three times in their life they've faced reverse discrimination. Give me a ****ing break. This is why I choose to avoid racial discussions with white men no matter how intelligent or liberal they seem. I know they exist but I have never come across any that truly get it.

Do you think white women are more likely to get it? Because of being able to relate it to male privilege?