Spinoff: Men think they can say anything to women they don't know

curlypearl · 04-12-2012, 05:40 AM

Some men think they have the right to comment to complete strangers (women) on their appearance. Has something like this happened to you?

Him (total stranger going up in an elevator with me): "Oh no, no, no, no!!! That's all wrong. You can't wear a long jacket in this weather. Come on now, it's Spring. Take it off!"

Me (confused look)

Him (as he gets off elevator) Have a great day!

I never can think of a good comeback in the moment, but I daresay he would never speak like that to a man. It was sexist, intrusive, and "take it off" was slightly alarming.

ursula · 04-12-2012, 06:08 AM

Wow, that's outrageous. So he basically wanted you to strip?

One of my "favorites" is "Smile!" It's basically the equivalent of a catcall, but it's also a wonderful reminder that we as women need to be all sweetness and light for the men around us. Again, not something a man would say to another man!

Dedachan · 04-12-2012, 07:17 AM

That's nothing. Some douche from my gym once made a comment on how I needed to wear a good, really tight sports bra so my boobs didn't droop. He tried to spin it as objective, health advice but I wanted to kill him right then and there. Like you, I was caught off guard and didn't know what to answer. He then greeted me the following week as if we were buddies. I gave him a cold stare and ignored him. I keep wishing I had told him off.

cympreni · 04-12-2012, 07:30 AM

We briefly had these neighbors, some punk wanna-be gangstas who wore their pants around their thighs that used to comment on my outfits all the time, and not in the typical guy way. Like once they made a big deal out of me wearing something in their opinion was out of season and my shoes were a frequent topic of choice for them. It was so weird.

Ninjarette · 04-12-2012, 08:05 AM

Yep...they do. My favorite is "Smile!", as in a command. I don't go around smiling 24/7, which doesn't mean I'm angry, I'm just not a Cheshire Cat. I'm always thinking about something, and my facial expression often indicates I'm in deep thought.

I've had numerous men take offense to my straight face...men I don't know, never seen before, etc. It's all about them, and how my demeanor affects their well being. Annoying.

PartyHair · 04-12-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curlypearl

Some men think they have the right to comment to complete strangers (women) on their appearance. Has something like this happened to you?

Him (total stranger going up in an elevator with me): "Oh no, no, no, no!!! That's all wrong. You can't wear a long jacket in this weather. Come on now, it's Spring. Take it off!"

Me (confused look)

Him (as he gets off elevator) Have a great day!

I never can think of a good comeback in the moment, but I daresay he would never speak like that to a man. It was sexist, intrusive, and "take it off" was slightly alarming.

Maybe I'm naive, but I wouldn't've thought twice about it. I would've assumed he was joking/trying to make conversation/NOT providing sexist and intrusive commentary.

I would've come back with an innocuous comment about how it's one of my favorite jackets, or it may be spring but it's still chilly enough for this jacket... I wouldn't've immediately gotten offended.

Unless there was something in his tone of voice or body language that indicated otherwise, I would've figured he was just passing the time.

Gretchen · 04-12-2012, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjarette

Yep...they do. My favorite is "Smile!", as in a command. I don't go around smiling 24/7, which doesn't mean I'm angry, I'm just not a Cheshire Cat. I'm always thinking about something, and my facial expression often indicates I'm in deep thought.

I've had numerous men take offense to my straight face...men I don't know, never seen before, etc. It's all about them, and how my demeanor affects their well being. Annoying.

Oh I am so with you! I absolutely HATE that one. No one gets to tell me what my emotions should be or how I should arrange my face.

MAJOR PEEVE.

Narnia · 04-12-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gretchen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninjarette

Yep...they do. My favorite is "Smile!", as in a command. I don't go around smiling 24/7, which doesn't mean I'm angry, I'm just not a Cheshire Cat. I'm always thinking about something, and my facial expression often indicates I'm in deep thought.

I've had numerous men take offense to my straight face...men I don't know, never seen before, etc. It's all about them, and how my demeanor affects their well being. Annoying.

Oh I am so with you! I absolutely HATE that one. No one gets to tell me what my emotions should be or how I should arrange my face.

MAJOR PEEVE.

+1!!
And especially when people try to say it when I was totally alone in my office, or walking down the street.

I always say "when you are sitting alone in your office do YOU always have a big grin on your face? That is one of he first signs of psychosis.."

I hate, hate, absolutely hate that.

Sent from my "smart" phone, 'scuse crazy typos.

nynaeve77 · 04-12-2012, 09:04 AM

A few weeks ago, I was enjoying one of my rare nights out without my kids. While standing in line at Starbucks waiting for a coffee, there were a couple of d-bags behind me who were making commentary on the appearance of every woman in the place, including some really rude comments about a teenager who couldn't have been more than 15 (these were guys well into their twenties). I was standing about 5 feet away and they said of me, "I bet she used to be hot, but look at her now. Look how she's standing, like she still thinks she's sexy." They weren't being at all subtle and they knew I could hear every word. I was just standing normally, minding my own business. I guess I should've gone out with a paper bag over my head so I didn't offend their delicate sensibilities. I gave them my best death glare and didn't say a word, but I mostly wanted to upend my mocha on their heads.

wild~hair · 04-12-2012, 09:04 AM

Always hated that smile thing. HATE it. Haven't been getting it for years now, thankfully.

curlypearl, that comment sounds like something a gay man might say to be funny and friendly. But I wasn't there and tone and context are everything.

Nallia · 04-12-2012, 09:14 AM

I don't see the issue being whether he was trying to be funny/friendly or rude. To me, the issue is that it's seen as acceptable to randomly comment on a woman's appearance any time a man feels like it. There are better ways to break the ice that aren't sexist and don't objectify a woman. A woman's appearance doesn't need to always be fair game for others' judgments/comments/jokes/whatever. As was already stated, men don't do this to each other.

Amneris · 04-12-2012, 09:16 AM

Yeah, I think the context would colour how I'd feel about the coat thing. I see that more as a comment on the weather than a person's appearance, as opposed to what was said to Devachan and nynaeve which are obviously comments on womens' bodies that I agree men generally think are OK to make, but would not want to receive.

I don't usually get any unwanted negative comments from men, only supposedly "positive" ones. (I realize that sounds conceited - I'm not Samantha Brick, I swear! Some of the "positive" comments are unwanted because they are crass and rude.) Men comment on my hair fairly often when I am wearing it out and natural and usually positively, but I have had negative comments too - I've had men say I need to "do something" with my hair or "I need a comb to straighten it out" or once a racist comment was made about my "monkey hair" by some stupid guy in a truck with a confederate flag.

Oh, I did get a lot of unwanted comments on my body when I was pregnant.

Amneris · 04-12-2012, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

I don't see the issue being whether he was trying to be funny/friendly or rude. To me, the issue is that it's seen as acceptable to randomly comment on a woman's appearance any time a man feels like it. There are better ways to break the ice that aren't sexist and don't objectify a woman. A woman's appearance doesn't need to always be fair game for others' judgments/comments/jokes/whatever. As was already stated, men don't do this to each other.

I agree, but to me a comment on a coat is borderline and does depend on the context. It isn't really a comment on her appearance or body or the clothing next to her body. It could be a comment on how nice it is outside. Like if you see someone with an umbrella and it's not raining so you make a joke. I think the tone is determinative and if it felt wrong to curlypearl then it probably was, but commenting on someone wearing a coat in nice weather in general may not be sexist.

In the racial context, comments on a Black woman's hair can be racist depending upon tone, or they can be genuine compliments, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

missbanjo · 04-12-2012, 09:21 AM

+1000 on "Smile!" HATE.IT with a passion and I hear it so damn often. A complete stranger once told me I'm beautiful when I smile. How the FLOCK would you know you azzhat?
Do these idiots know that I have to consciously smile? My lips don't normally form a smile? I'm not going around 17 hours a day with a smile plastered on my face, jackhole. It'd hurt after a few minutes.

/endrant

Nallia · 04-12-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amneris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

I don't see the issue being whether he was trying to be funny/friendly or rude. To me, the issue is that it's seen as acceptable to randomly comment on a woman's appearance any time a man feels like it. There are better ways to break the ice that aren't sexist and don't objectify a woman. A woman's appearance doesn't need to always be fair game for others' judgments/comments/jokes/whatever. As was already stated, men don't do this to each other.

I agree, but to me a comment on a coat is borderline and does depend on the context. It isn't really a comment on her appearance or body or the clothing next to her body. It could be a comment on how nice it is outside. Like if you see someone with an umbrella and it's not raining so you make a joke. I think the tone is determinative and if it felt wrong to curlypearl then it probably was, but commenting on someone wearing a coat in nice weather in general may not be sexist.

In the racial context, comments on a Black woman's hair can be racist depending upon tone, or they can be genuine compliments, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

I get that. However, I interpreted curlypearl's OP as not complaining about that specific instance, per se, but as using it as an example of the tendency of random men on the street to think it's appropriate to make remarks about a woman's appearance. I saw it as a comment on the broader issue. Could she have used a more clear example? Sure. But this particular event bothered her as much and in the same way as the many others she's had to endure, and since it was a recent occurrence, she chose it. Whether he meant it to be snarky or not is beside the point. It made her uncomfortable, it insulted her, it felt like one more objectification to her, in a likely long list of objectifications. And I agree. There are plenty of ways to talk about the weather without bringing someone's choice of clothing into it. Again, I can't see a man making the same comment to another man.

Women's appearances have been up for judgment for so long that we almost don't notice anymore unless someone is being blatantly disrespectful. But it's unnecessary and sexist even if it is a compliment.

Amneris · 04-12-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amneris

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nallia

I don't see the issue being whether he was trying to be funny/friendly or rude. To me, the issue is that it's seen as acceptable to randomly comment on a woman's appearance any time a man feels like it. There are better ways to break the ice that aren't sexist and don't objectify a woman. A woman's appearance doesn't need to always be fair game for others' judgments/comments/jokes/whatever. As was already stated, men don't do this to each other.

I agree, but to me a comment on a coat is borderline and does depend on the context. It isn't really a comment on her appearance or body or the clothing next to her body. It could be a comment on how nice it is outside. Like if you see someone with an umbrella and it's not raining so you make a joke. I think the tone is determinative and if it felt wrong to curlypearl then it probably was, but commenting on someone wearing a coat in nice weather in general may not be sexist.

In the racial context, comments on a Black woman's hair can be racist depending upon tone, or they can be genuine compliments, and sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

I get that. However, I interpreted curlypearl's OP as not complaining about that specific instance, per se, but as using it as an example of the tendency of random men on the street to think it's appropriate to make remarks about a woman's appearance. I saw her out as a comment on the broader issue. Could she have used a more clear example? Sure. But this particular event bothered her as much and in the same way as the many others she's had to endure, and since it was a recent occurrence, she chose it. Whether he meant it to be snarky or not is beside the point. It made her uncomfortable, it insulted her, it felt like one more objectification to her, in a likely long list of objectifications. And I agree. There are plenty of ways to talk about the weather without bringing someone's choice of clothing into it. Again, I can't see a man making the same comment to another man.

Women's appearances have been up for judgment for so long that we almost don't notice anymore unless someone is being blatantly disrespectful. But it's unnecessary and sexist even if it is a compliment.

Yes, I agree with this.

ninja dog · 04-12-2012, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynaeve77

A few weeks ago, I was enjoying one of my rare nights out without my kids. While standing in line at Starbucks waiting for a coffee, there were a couple of d-bags behind me who were making commentary on the appearance of every woman in the place, including some really rude comments about a teenager who couldn't have been more than 15 (these were guys well into their twenties). I was standing about 5 feet away and they said of me, "I bet she used to be hot, but look at her now. Look how she's standing, like she still thinks she's sexy." They weren't being at all subtle and they knew I could hear every word. I was just standing normally, minding my own business. I guess I should've gone out with a paper bag over my head so I didn't offend their delicate sensibilities. I gave them my best death glare and didn't say a word, but I mostly wanted to upend my mocha on their heads.

I think I would have gone ballisticisimus in this situation. Probably pitched a hissy-worthy.

PartyHair · 04-12-2012, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nynaeve77

A few weeks ago, I was enjoying one of my rare nights out without my kids. While standing in line at Starbucks waiting for a coffee, there were a couple of d-bags behind me who were making commentary on the appearance of every woman in the place, including some really rude comments about a teenager who couldn't have been more than 15 (these were guys well into their twenties). I was standing about 5 feet away and they said of me, "I bet she used to be hot, but look at her now. Look how she's standing, like she still thinks she's sexy." They weren't being at all subtle and they knew I could hear every word. I was just standing normally, minding my own business. I guess I should've gone out with a paper bag over my head so I didn't offend their delicate sensibilities. I gave them my best death glare and didn't say a word, but I mostly wanted to upend my mocha on their heads.

To me, this is a completely different situation than what the OP described in her first post.

WileE-Dead · 04-12-2012, 09:44 AM

This have never happened to me...

Code:

y'all should smile more, ya know

JewelCurls · 04-12-2012, 09:45 AM

Weirdly, the "smile" thing does not upset me... I feel they are trying to cheer me up if I look gloomy (my "thinking" face is definitely a bit scowly), and if accompanied by a warm smile on their part usually makes me smile too. I hate it when people tell me I look tired... I think it is really rude. Go ahead and point out my red, allergy ridden eyes and lack of energy. While you're at it, tell me I'm lazy and unprofessional for wearing less makeup than you think appropriate. Maybe even suggest I should have stayed home if I feel as bad as I look. Soooo rude! When I am in public, I try to keep my comments positive and complimentary to folks (ooo her shoes are pretty, beautiful curls, nice purse, sharp suit, etc.) You never know who might be listening.