*Marah*

I don't believe that he was completely for it. I specifically and distinctly heard HIM say that he thought it was between a man and a woman and it was because of his religious beliefs. So I have to go by what I heard with my own 2 ears. So I don't know what changed between '96, then changed, and changed again.. but I know what I heard.

Frankly, I don't have a problem if he's against it for religious reasons. He's entitled to whatever religious beliefs (or lack of) he wants to have like everyone else. What I would take issue with is him acting as if everyone else that isn't his religion should agree with him and any effort to influence laws prohibiting gay marriage. And he has always stopped short of that ..so no qualms from me.

I just think as much as I like President Obama he's guilty of exactly what other politicians do.. lie, waffle, then lie again to cover. I do honestly believe he thought at one time marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. On some level.. I wouldn't be surprised if he still believes that...

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Springcurl

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I agree.

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amandamarie

P.S. Norahbugg, I just remembered there were a couple things you said that I meant to respond to and never did: I would actually find it more frustrating if you claimed to have thought a lot about it and to consider it a huge issue than I do that you say it's simply not a deciding factor for you or one you have a fully formed opinion on. That's what I meant by actively opposing marriage equality--for you to have qualms based on what your religion teaches you and to not have had much reason to question it, being, presumably, heterosexual yourself makes total sense to me, but when people talk about a "War on Marriage" and similar, I am first confused, then offended, and finally angered.

The other thing you mentioned that I wanted to respond to was your concern about there being social pressures for churches to marry same-sex couples. On the one hand, I think it's imperative that social attitudes go further in the direction of acceptance and equality. On the other hand, I find many people extend this same desire for acceptance to religious groups, even ones that don't accept them. The LGBT community primarily wants to be left alone to be able to do what it wants to do ... and I think most of us can support religious groups wanting the same (though there is hate everywhere, naturally). It is when religious groups try to interfere with our private lives that we get angry and defensive.

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Favorite products: Kinky-Curly Knot Today, Kinky-Curly Curling Custard, Curl Junkie Curls in a Bottle, Curl Junkie Curl Rehab, Curl Junkie Curl Assurance Smoothing Lotion, Shea Moisture Curl and Style Milk, homemade flaxseed gel.

Still looking for a cleanser I like.

cocomichia

I'm probably the odd one here, but I don't understand why Americans even stand for giving government the power to control this aspect of their lives. Ok, so Obama is in support of gay-marriage. That's just peachy, but maybe instead he should ponder on whether marriage is any business of the government. I can understand for legal reasons, why a person would want to enter into a binding contract with another person. Whether it's two men, two women, or a man and a woman, two consenting adults should be allowed to enter into a contract with one another. As for marriage...take the word off the contract. Leave it to those who are religious. They get the same binding contract, or "civil union", just like everyone else - from the government for legal purposes. Then, if they choose, have their religious marriage ceremony. These two things should be separate. Government has no business interfering with religious marriage, and should never keep two consenting adults from entering into a contract. This argument will never end, and we will never come to a consensus - so just do away with government marriage all together. Civil Unions for everyone!

My rambling thoughts. I couldn't care less which politician supports gay marriage. GTFO of my business and do the job you're supposed to do - you know, like passing a budget.

NorahBugg

What I have heard is that Catholic universities have to offer birth control to students or have govt funds cut like federal loans and grants, the Church has to offer birth control to its employees as part of their insurance coverage, and all Catholic Church employees have be given health ins. I've also read about religious-ran centers for the poor being threatened for asking their patrons if they want to pray. This was in a large-city newspaper representing a pretty liberal city, not a right-wing source or anything. The forcing of Catholic adoption centers to close because they won't serve gay couples. Catholic hospitals are being forced to perform services that they are opposed to and have not performed in the past.

I haven't been concerned by it because I see the other side to it, but it is an awful lot coming down and it has me a little on edge. Why is it all happening now? There are people on the far left that are absolutely against religion.

jeepcurlygurl

My own Catholic church refused to perform my wedding because my fiance wasn't Catholic. My own Catholic church refused to let me be my niece's Godmother because I hadn't been to church (and put money in the coffers) for years. They can do whatever they so choose. I'm fine with that. There are other options (We found another Catholic church to perform the baptism).

As for the President changing his views, opinions, etc, everyone has a right to do so on any subject, including the leader of the United States of America. I was born and raised a Catholic. Then I changed my views and am now an unwavering atheist. I have that right. The President does too.

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roseannadana

People do evolve and change their minds about social issues. I don't find it strange at all. Thank goodness people can learn to accept societal change and even embrace it.

How do you think the civil rights movement came about and the women's right to vote? People of conscious realized they were wrong and worked to change things.

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Eilonwy

What do you consider "far left"?

I would say that there's no significant far-left element in American politics.

Eilonwy

I agree with that, but Obama seems to be more progressive as a person than he is as a politician. I'm sure that many people his age who now support marriage equality used to be against it, and I think it's very, very likely that his opinion changed at some point. I just doubt that this change took place in the last four years. No, I don't have a telepathic link-up with him. But that's the impression I get.

diaspora

I just read articles in The Nation and Black Commentator that called Obama's varying public positions on same-sex marriage "political calculations." IMO that's obvious. I'm not singling out Obama, politicians do this all the time. The Nation article also states that Obama told "Outlines" magazine in 1996 that he supports gay marriage, as I think another poster mentioned. This would mean he used to believe in it, then he didn't, now he does again. I'm glad he's voicing that he supports it now, but not buying that he keeps changing his mind.

I agree with Eilonwy that Obama's personal beliefs are more progressive than his politics, probably much more so on some issues.

Obama's 'Evolving' Position on Gay Marriage

BlackCommentator.com Cover Story: Obama Comes Out on Gay Marriage – Inclusion - By The Reverend Irene Monroe - BC Editorial Board

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curlyarca

I agree with roseannadanna said. I was initially against gay marriage, then I changed my mind. Publicly on this board even. What changed my mind was a) it's none of my business and b)marriage is a contract, as Springcurl said, and largely a financial/business arrangement at its core and c) considering the arguments on both sides. The anti-gay marriage argument is very, very weak.

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greenjumper

I completely agree with the bolded.

As far as specifically and distinctly hearing what some one says....In my experience, everyone and anyone can speak specifically and distinctly until they are blue in the face. That doesn't make anything that they say any more or less true (e.g. Clinton "I did not have sexual relations with that woman").

I think you are right in taking President Obama as the best and most qualified authority on his beliefs. However, from my perceptive, his words have been contradicted by the quote form 1996 as well as some of his actions in more recent times (even though I understand that the latter could stem from his evolving attitudes). That's what makes me question if his stance from 2004 and 2008 was man and woman only marriage.

thelio

I dont think the gov. should have any say or who can legally get married. I think the gov should stay out of all of our bedrooms.

Its great the president came out with this. it would be better if he came out with, "its none of my dang business who you marry as long as you are consenting adults. The goverment will no longer interfer."

roseannadana

I assume you realize a president does not have the authority to do something like this.

I don't mean for that to sound snarky.

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thelio

when i say that, i mean he would make the announcement that the gov will no longer interfer. i know he cant just cant make the change himself.

the gov can no longer prevent people of opposite races or religions from marrying which was once the law. i would like to see this with gay-marriage.

diaspora

My friend just sent this to me; pretty interesting. Apparently homophobia hasn't always been part of the Christian religion and same-sex marriages were performed in churches just like they were for hetero couples. I guess Christianity "changed its mind" like Obama did, hehe.

When Same Sex Marriage Was a Christian Rite

WHEN SAME-SEX MARRIAGE WAS A CHRISTIAN RITE1

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand years from the 8th to the 18th century.

...It proves that for the last two millennia, in parish churches and cathedrals throughout Christendom, from Ireland to Istanbul and even in the heart of Rome itself, homosexual relationships were accepted as valid expressions of a [Christian] god-given love and commitment to another person, a love that could be celebrated, honored and blessed, through the Eucharist in the name of, and in the presence of, Jesus Christ.

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Formerly Urbancurl.
Medium-high density, fine-medium, low-normal porosity, 3b/c, permanent color.
CG, no heat, combs, brushes, parabens.
Fall/Winter HG=Alba Botanica Soft Hold Style Cream.
Spring/Summer HG=MGA Sculpting Gel
Current fave LI=Madre Labs Made by Nature for Baby Conditioner.
Limit oils, butters, glycerin.

Josephine

I also heard him say that and I believe he said it because he had to. Of course we don't know....but I believe he was always for equality. Just a feeling I have about him.

murrrcat

Bristol Palin slams Obama's ABC interview, defends Hillary Clinton - latimes.com


is she stupid?

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curlyarca

Short answer? Yes x1 trillion.

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curlylaura

It Could Happen To You - YouTube

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