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-   -   Can you call a 9 year old a psychopath? (http://www.naturallycurly.com/curltalk/non-hair-discussion/144543-can-you-call-9-year-old-psychopath.html)

Nej 05-13-2012 09:07 PM

Can you call a 9 year old a psychopath?
 
Fascinating article. I love reading stuff like this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/ma...pagewanted=all

Discuss

jeepcurlygurl 05-13-2012 09:34 PM

I've been studying serial killers for 30+ years and I do believe you can call a 9 year old a psychopath.
Is this particular kid a psychopath? He doesn't seem to have the more usual tendencies but I'm an amateur researcher not an expert so who knows.

Nej 05-13-2012 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl (Post 1953216)
I've been studying serial killers for 30+ years and I do believe you can call a 9 year old a psychopath.
Is this particular kid a psychopath? He doesn't seem to have the more usual tendencies but I'm an amateur researcher not an expert so who knows.

Most of the books I've read on the subject seem to infer that it is a genetic thing. I find that so interesting.

sleepymeko 05-13-2012 09:54 PM

Haha, this reminded me of the movie 'We Need to Talk About Kevin'

jeepcurlygurl 05-13-2012 09:57 PM

So many kids nowadays are diagnosed with autism that I think it sometimes muddles research on this sort of subject.
In the case of serial killers it often seems to be the combination of genetics, an abusive upbringing, head injuries/illness that makes them who they are. And they are also saying that there is a difference in brain scans between psychopaths and normal people.

sleepymeko 05-13-2012 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nej (Post 1953222)
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl (Post 1953216)
I've been studying serial killers for 30+ years and I do believe you can call a 9 year old a psychopath.
Is this particular kid a psychopath? He doesn't seem to have the more usual tendencies but I'm an amateur researcher not an expert so who knows.

Most of the books I've read on the subject seem to infer that it is a genetic thing. I find that so interesting.

Well, personality is mostly ruled by genetics.

midgi 05-13-2012 10:14 PM

The article did discuss the father's antisocial behavior when he was a child, so genetics could definitely be a factor. But they also mentioned environmental factors, such as Michael's earlier diagnosis of firstborn syndrome. IMO, mental disorders are too complex to be one or the other. They are most likely a combination of factors.

I thought the differences between behaviors exhibited by children with psychopathic tendencies, versus those with OCD, other impulse disorders, and those with ordinary behavioral problems to be really interesting.

The researchers definitely have something worth studying. I mean, even the journalist's personal observations and interactions with Michael are really disturbing.

When the author mentioned the bit about the Criminal Minds episode, I was like yea! because Anne and Miguel's story instantly reminded me of it.

And also the part about Michael growing up to be a Nobel Prize winner or a serial killer was very sad. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to love a child with so many negative tendencies and personality traits. My heart broke a little when she also said that raising him was joyless.
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damsel_fly 05-13-2012 11:33 PM

Chilling.

I'm sure many people do have sympathy for loving, non-abusive parents of psychopaths.

I feel for the 2 younger boys. It is difficult growing up in the shadow of a sibling who has issues.

Reading that the father also had problems as a child makes me wonder if when planning to marry/have children, do people disclose their childhood issues to their partners.

The New Black 05-14-2012 04:04 AM

What Jeepy said.

rouquinne 05-14-2012 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl (Post 1953230)
... they are also saying that there is a difference in brain scans between psychopaths and normal people.

i think it was an episode of Nova several years ago that featured an episode on this. they had the autopsy results on Jeffery Dahmer's brain and how very different it is from "normal" brains.

Eilonwy 05-14-2012 10:41 AM

First off, this is the NYT Magazine. It's entertainment, not a peer-reviewed research journal. Non-academic publications tend to grossly exaggerate real science to make it sound more interesting.

As with most things, it's nature + nurture. People can have the sort of brain activity found in sociopaths, but not be sociopaths themselves. They had the potential for it, but it was never triggered by environmental factors.

Also, children's brains change so much that it's not appropriate to diagnose them as sociopaths. There's a good chance that they'll grow out of it as their brains mature.

Dedachan 05-14-2012 12:23 PM

I'm definitely no expert, but I think psychopath is a word that has pretty much become synonimous with serial killer in our minds, but only some psychopaths/sociopaths actually fall into that category. And yes, it sucks to label a child that way (technically, they're calling them C.U., and that may or may not represent sociopathic tendencies), but I think they're right to do the research.

If there's a chance they can come up with helpfull treatments, then it's worth it. Better than to ignore the problem because it's too unpleasant to think about and deal with the horrible consequences later. Even the child doesn't become a criminal, they could still benefit from learning empathy. There are other ways sociopaths can behave that are also problematic, violence isn't the only issue.

This all has to be done with great caution and responsibility, of course. I am curious as to whether putting all those kids with C.U. together (the "summer camp") is a good idea. Should they be put in an environment whith other manipulative children? Might that not give them a sense of belonging, make them think that their behavour is somehow normal?

cympreni 05-14-2012 12:56 PM

But is empathy something that can be taught? Will they really learn? Or just learn how to fake it?

There's one thing that bugs me in the article.

Quote:

Glancing down a second later, he noticed my digital tape recorder on the table. “Did you record that?” he asked. I said that I had. He stared at me briefly before turning back to the video. When a sudden noise from the other room caused me to glance away, Michael seized the opportunity to grab the recorder and press the erase button. (Waschbusch later noted that such a calculated reprisal was unusual in a 9-year-old, who would normally go for the recorder immediately or simply whine and sulk.)
The bolded: umm what??? 9 year olds are not infants incapable of planning. It doesn't take but a few years for children to learn they have to bide their time in order to sneak a cookie!

claudine19 05-14-2012 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepymeko (Post 1953229)
Haha, this reminded me of the movie 'We Need to Talk About Kevin'

i've been afraid to watch this. is there bad animal stuff in it?

jeepcurlygurl 05-14-2012 01:27 PM

If it was my kid exhibiting this behavior, I would want the research to happen.

A few years ago, not far from here, an 11 year old boy murdered his father's 8 1/2 months pregnant fiance (found guilty of 1st degree murder and some other charge I think). He shot her in her sleep, with other kids in the house. Then walked his stepsister to school.
From what I hear from folks in the system, he has shown no remorse and has had issues for awhile. I don't know the whole history of this kid so I'm not sure I'd label him a psychopath, but I'm betting people close to him wish they would have done more to get him the help he needed.
And, psychopath or not, he will be free in 7 years.


Edited a million times because I can't type a clear sentence.

sleepymeko 05-14-2012 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by claudine19 (Post 1953503)
Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepymeko (Post 1953229)
Haha, this reminded me of the movie 'We Need to Talk About Kevin'

i've been afraid to watch this. is there bad animal stuff in it?

The movie doesn't show him killing the gerbil. They just talk about how the gerbil was found in the garbage disposal.

Now that I think about it, the most disturbing thing about the movie was Ezra's (Kevin's) dead eyes.

claudine19 05-14-2012 01:48 PM

Um......thanks for the info?

redcelticcurls 05-14-2012 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeepcurlygurl (Post 1953524)
If it was my kid exhibiting this behavior, I would want the research to happen.

A few years ago, not far from here, an 11 year old boy murdered his father's 8 1/2 months pregnant fiance (found guilty of 1st degree murder and some other charge I think). He shot her in her sleep, with other kids in the house. Then walked his stepsister to school.
From what I hear from folks in the system, he has shown no remorse and has had issues for awhile. I don't know the whole history of this kid so I'm not sure I'd label him a psychopath, but I'm betting people close to him wish they would have done more to get him the help he needed.
And, psychopath or not, he will be free in 7 years.


Edited a million times because I can't type a clear sentence.

I remember that case. That kid looked eerie.


Siri types my posts for me.

sarah42 05-14-2012 02:12 PM

I thought it was really interesting when they mentioned a study from the 1970s showing that all psychopathic adults in the study were antisocial as children, but only about 50% of the antisocial children grew up to be psychopathic adults. That tells me that the right environment can (hopefully) override innate tendencies.

I used to know someone that I'm pretty sure is sociopathic, or at least has a lot of sociopathic tendencies. He is not a serial killer (most sociopaths aren't), but harms people in other ways. He does not form true attachments or relationships with others and does not show remorse for his wrongdoing.

Nej 05-14-2012 03:36 PM

I think there are lots more sociopathic people out there than we realize. It's only the ones who turn into serial killers that get the attention.

I read a book on serial killers and lots of them harmed people just to "see what would happen". I found it interesting that many of the kids in the article performed similar "experiments".


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