Go Back   CurlTalk > Life > Non-hair discussion

Like Tree34Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2012, 08:26 PM   #1
 
Springcurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,665
Default Do you think white should ever be able to say with certainty that....

... something is not racist?

I probably didn't phrase that the best way.

Anyway, on FB today a "friend" posted what I believed to be a borderline(?) racist joke about little Leroy in Detroit-- with a picture of a black kid next to it..

SPRINGCURL: Offensive and racist
RANDOM PERSON (not the friend): Springcurl, it most definitely is not racist. I've asked my black friends and they said it wasn't racist. Everyone knows that Detroit is a high-crime area.
SPRINGCURL: But it was a black kid in the picture, wasn't it? And "my black friends"? LOL

I think saying, "I don't understand why it's racist" is probably fine if you're not being deliberately obtuse. But I really don't appreciate the "it most definitely is not racist" part.

Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?
__________________


Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



Springcurl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:38 PM   #2
 
sleepymeko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,001
Default

That all depends on you, really.

But IMHO, if minorities find something offensive then it's probably both offensive and racist. I think the main problem with some people is that they're so privileged and never had to go through the things that we go through, they rarely see the connection and shrug us off as being overly sensitive.
Josephine, scrills, Nallia and 2 others like this.
__________________
Check out my personal blog




sleepymeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:38 PM   #3
 
spiderlashes5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,721
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl View Post
... something is not racist?

I probably didn't phrase that the best way.

Anyway, on FB today a "friend" posted what I believed to be a borderline(?) racist joke about little Leroy in Detroit-- with a picture of a black kid next to it..

SPRINGCURL: Offensive and racist
RANDOM PERSON (not the friend): Springcurl, it most definitely is not racist. I've asked my black friends and they said it wasn't racist. Everyone knows that Detroit is a high-crime area.
SPRINGCURL: But it was a black kid in the picture, wasn't it? And "my black friends"? LOL

I think saying, "I don't understand why it's racist" is probably fine if you're not being deliberately obtuse. But I really don't appreciate the "it most definitely is not racist" part.

Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?
Some things are just NOT racist. They're just not. A reasonably intelligent (nonracist) White person should be able to make that call.

But a lot of racist matter is subtle and subversive, and flies right under most White people's radar. Not bc White people are dumb or bc they are inherently missing the racist-identification gene...but bc they lack the experience dealing w/ it.

Just like a dermatologist can spot a melanoma where maybe a cardiologist wouldn't be able to.
violets and curlypearl like this.
__________________
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

spiderlashes5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:43 PM   #4
 
wild_sasparilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,007
Default

No. It is never okay for a member of a privileged group to tell a member of an oppressed group that they "most definitely" don't have the right to feel offended by something. Like you said, as long as someone's being genuine and not combative, saying that they don't get how something's racist/sexist/etc. is okay, because then a brief explanation/discussion can set things straight.

I want to slap Random Person. If you ask a few black people about a comment and they aren't offended that means no black people anywhere ever can be offended because that is not the decision of the Hive Mind and minorities aren't allowed to have individual thoughts and opinions like real people, GOSH!
coilynapp and Saria like this.
__________________
OMG, LOOK!!

...It's a siggie.
wild_sasparilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:43 PM   #5
 
*Marah*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,940
Default

I think a lot of what people call racist is not really "racist". It's prejudice (which isn't great either). I think it's all about a person's sensitivity too. You as a person of color may take offense to something that you perceive as racist but another person of color may not.
__________________
*Marah* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:48 PM   #6
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl View Post
Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?
There are urban legends about racist things that didn't happen. The word "picnic" doesn't come from "pick a n-," and Tommy Hilfigger never said anything about Black and Asian people wearing his clothes. And god knows there are some crazy people on the internet who like to say everything's racist in order to get attention. (If you haven't run into these people, just trust me on this one. These are usually the same folks who think they're half-dragon/half-vulcan demisexuals and that anyone who doesn't agree with this is a big fat bigot.)

But when it comes to real complaints about real things, I can't say that it's not racist. And even when there's a real complaint about something that didn't happen, it's based on legitimate fears and concerns.


e: Rant dragon/vulcan demisexuals removed and posted instead in the Say It thread. I don't want to derail the discussion of racism.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 06-25-2012 at 09:32 PM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:48 PM   #7
 
Saria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,877
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_sasparilla View Post
No. It is never okay for a member of a privileged group to tell a member of an oppressed group that they "most definitely" don't have the right to feel offended by something. Like you said, as long as someone's being genuine and not combative, saying that they don't get how something's racist/sexist/etc. is okay, because then a brief explanation/discussion can set things straight.

I want to slap Random Person. If you ask a few black people about a comment and they aren't offended that means no black people anywhere ever can be offended because that is not the decision of the Hive Mind and minorities aren't allowed to have individual thoughts and opinions like real people, GOSH!

To answer this question, I thought about the number of times I've had men try to tell me that something wasn't sexist when of course they were in no position to judge, and they often fell back on how other women gave them a pass. Uh, like I give a ****. Nope, they don't get away with trying to invalidate my feelings and calling me irrational.
__________________
Saria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:50 PM   #8
 
roseannadana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,683
Default

It's never ok to tell someone that something is not offensive. If a person says they are offended, the proper response would be, "I'm sorry. I didn't intend to offend YOU and I am sorry."
curlypearl likes this.
__________________

I was born to be a pessimist. My blood type is B Negative.
roseannadana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:52 PM   #9
 
Josephine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,631
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl View Post
Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?
There are urban legends about racist things that didn't happen. The word "picnic" doesn't come from "pick a n-," and Tommy Hilfigger never said anything about Black and Asian people wearing his clothes. And god knows there are some crazy people on the internet who like to say everything's racist in order to get attention. (If you haven't run into these people, just trust me on this one. These are usually the same folks who think they're half-dragon/half-vulcan demisexuals and that anyone who doesn't agree with this is a big fat bigot.)

But when it comes to real complaints about real things, I can't say that it's not racist.
Um...Tommy Hilfigger was definitely being racist, unless I'm confused with something else.
sleepymeko likes this.
Josephine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:56 PM   #10
 
sleepymeko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,001
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saria View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wild_sasparilla View Post
No. It is never okay for a member of a privileged group to tell a member of an oppressed group that they "most definitely" don't have the right to feel offended by something. Like you said, as long as someone's being genuine and not combative, saying that they don't get how something's racist/sexist/etc. is okay, because then a brief explanation/discussion can set things straight.

I want to slap Random Person. If you ask a few black people about a comment and they aren't offended that means no black people anywhere ever can be offended because that is not the decision of the Hive Mind and minorities aren't allowed to have individual thoughts and opinions like real people, GOSH!

To answer this question, I thought about the number of times I've had men try to tell me that something wasn't sexist when of course they were in no position to judge, and they often fell back on how other women gave them a pass. Uh, like I give a ****. Nope, they don't get away with trying to invalidate my feelings and calling me irrational.
This reminds me when I went to my school's Laughology with a friend (who was also Black). Like I have already said on this forum, there are if most, 500 Black students at my school with a pop. of 20,000. There were three Black people in the audience (including me and my friend).

Somewhere during some of the "comedians" routines, who were all White minus a White/Filipino mix female, it just got too... Eh. They started making Black jokes which I thought was inappropriate. The White/Filipino woman said she felt like a Negro in Santa Barbara and another guy said something that both Obama and Simba had in common was that they were both from Africa. It's like once those things were said, it just started pouring down and me and my friend are looking around the auditorium that is filled with Caucasian faces and we were simply getting pissed off.

I went on a rant about it with a White male friend and he told me I was being overly sensitive and looking for racism. Which ended up with me yelling at him (and him taking me shopping, haha!).

I was trying to explain to my friend that he will never understand what it feels like to have people accuse me of stealing, store owners stalking me like a hawk like I'm going to steal something, me working at a restaurant and my coworkers telling me "It doesn't matter where you sit Black ppl because they don't leave good tips" and then staring at me and telling me "no offense". Or having people stare at me in the face and call me a n*.

I simply feel like if you cannot relate to what it is to be that in this country, Asian, Blacks, Hispanics, what have yous have every right to feel offended whenever they feel so.
__________________
Check out my personal blog





Last edited by Guide22; 06-25-2012 at 09:09 PM. Reason: edited due to board rules
sleepymeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #11
 
RedCatWaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 31,616
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl View Post
... something is not racist?

I probably didn't phrase that the best way.

Anyway, on FB today a "friend" posted what I believed to be a borderline(?) racist joke about little Leroy in Detroit-- with a picture of a black kid next to it..

SPRINGCURL: Offensive and racist
RANDOM PERSON (not the friend): Springcurl, it most definitely is not racist. I've asked my black friends and they said it wasn't racist. Everyone knows that Detroit is a high-crime area.
SPRINGCURL: But it was a black kid in the picture, wasn't it? And "my black friends"? LOL

I think saying, "I don't understand why it's racist" is probably fine if you're not being deliberately obtuse. But I really don't appreciate the "it most definitely is not racist" part.

Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?


You need better friends.
Josephine, Eilonwy, midgi and 2 others like this.
RedCatWaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:00 PM   #12
 
spiderlashes5000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 19,721
Default

"Racist" and "offensive" aren't the same thing.

Anything can be offensive; it's subjective and no one can say with certainty if something is offensive.

But a White HR manager, for instance, can say with certainty that the decision not to hire Bob Blackperson was not a racist one, if the HR manager used totally objective hiring guidelines or whatever...or the decision to move out of a certain neighborhood was not based on the person's low opinion of her Black neighbors if the person needed to move closer to her mother...or that denying the Black person's loan application wasn't race-based when there is a required 700 beacon score, etc.
RebeccaK likes this.
__________________
3b (with 3c tendencies) on modified CG

spiderlashes5000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:00 PM   #13
 
Eilonwy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 12,143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephine View Post
Um...Tommy Hilfigger was definitely being racist, unless I'm confused with something else.
Nope, it's just an oddly persistent urban legend. He never said anything like that (in public, anyway). In fact, he didn't even appear on Oprah's show until 2007.
Josephine and coilynapp like this.

Last edited by Eilonwy; 06-25-2012 at 09:05 PM.
Eilonwy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:01 PM   #14
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,210
Default

Forget what I just wrote.

As women, we know what that kind of sh is. We've all been told we're good for nothing unless you know what...The people who try to pull this need to be suppressed.

Last edited by slinky1; 06-25-2012 at 09:18 PM.
slinky1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:03 PM   #15
 
midgi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,818
Default

The whole thing about Tommy Hilfiger saying that he didn't think his clothes looked good on black people was debunked a long time ago. As for him actually being a racist... well, I can't speak on that.

I think that in the OP's circumstance, what bothers me the most is your friend's outright denial that his/her post may be offensive. Ok, so the juries out if it's racist, but honestly, if you took offense to it, they could've at least acknowledged that.

And I hate when certain white people throw out the whole "well my black best friend said..." as if their one black friend speaks for every black person under the sun.

Whatever. I'd just unfriend them lol
Eilonwy, LadyV69 and sleepymeko like this.
__________________
I just want to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
midgi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:05 PM   #16
 
midgi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,818
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky1 View Post
As humans, we all judge eachother on appearance, our interactions with others who have looked similarly, clothing, socioeconomic status, behavior, etc...So, black people today will probably never realize the difference between that and attitudes of true hate...due to what is being fed to them.
I disagree.
sleepymeko likes this.
__________________
I just want to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
midgi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:07 PM   #17
 
*Marah*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,940
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josephine View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilonwy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl View Post
Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?
There are urban legends about racist things that didn't happen. The word "picnic" doesn't come from "pick a n-," and Tommy Hilfigger never said anything about Black and Asian people wearing his clothes. And god knows there are some crazy people on the internet who like to say everything's racist in order to get attention. (If you haven't run into these people, just trust me on this one. These are usually the same folks who think they're half-dragon/half-vulcan demisexuals and that anyone who doesn't agree with this is a big fat bigot.)

But when it comes to real complaints about real things, I can't say that it's not racist.
Um...Tommy Hilfigger was definitely being racist, unless I'm confused with something else.
He says he didn't say it. It was supposed to be an interview from Oprah. The claim was that he said if he'd known blacks were going to wear his clothes he wouldn't have made them so nice. Tommy said this is nonsense.

Here is the conversation with Oprah:
JuiicyScoop: Does Tommy Hilfiger Hate Black People?

Oprah also recounted ..it didn't happen at least not on her show:

Tommy Hilfiger Is a Racist - Urban Legends
__________________

Last edited by *Marah*; 06-25-2012 at 09:12 PM.
*Marah* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:14 PM   #18
 
Springcurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 13,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCatWaves View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Springcurl View Post
... something is not racist?

I probably didn't phrase that the best way.

Anyway, on FB today a "friend" posted what I believed to be a borderline(?) racist joke about little Leroy in Detroit-- with a picture of a black kid next to it..

SPRINGCURL: Offensive and racist
RANDOM PERSON (not the friend): Springcurl, it most definitely is not racist. I've asked my black friends and they said it wasn't racist. Everyone knows that Detroit is a high-crime area.
SPRINGCURL: But it was a black kid in the picture, wasn't it? And "my black friends"? LOL

I think saying, "I don't understand why it's racist" is probably fine if you're not being deliberately obtuse. But I really don't appreciate the "it most definitely is not racist" part.

Does a white person ever have validity to tell a person of color something is or not racist?


You need better friends.
LOL. I need to stopeaccepting friend requests from people I know peripherally. And "random person" is a friend of my friend but not my friend. FB makes things confusing.
__________________


Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang




Last edited by Springcurl; 06-25-2012 at 09:19 PM.
Springcurl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:20 PM   #19
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,210
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by midgi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by slinky1 View Post
As humans, we all judge eachother on appearance, our interactions with others who have looked similarly, clothing, socioeconomic status, behavior, etc...So, black people today will probably never realize the difference between that and attitudes of true hate...due to what is being fed to them.
I disagree.

I erased all that and changed my response.

I decided that people like to make little offensive comments about racial groups and women...just to see if they can get away with them...knowing FULL darn well they shouldn't and why. One thing leads to another, things aren't checked, people get too stupid to realize the joke, and hate is born.
slinky1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2012, 09:26 PM   #20
 
midgi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,818
Default

Would you like me to edit my post?
__________________
I just want to do what I want to do when I want to do it.
midgi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2011 NaturallyCurly.com