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I found this article really interesting. It argues that the requirement for insurance companies to spend 85% of revenues on patient care will be such a big shock to the insurers that it will ultimately lead to a single-payer system. I am in favor of that.
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This means layoffs, pay cuts, retirement cuts, unpaid mortgages, unemployment, food stamps, etc. for many workers. They're the only game in town for good jobs.
...the reason some doctors prescribe tests and pills unnecessarily is the profit motive.
Originally Posted by diaspora
not the only reason.

you are also a lawsuit-happy country and doctors are afraid of being sued if they don't pull out ALL the stops and miss something...
Originally Posted by rouquinne
So true.

But research shows that most medical lawsuits are motivated by people not having enough money to care for themselves or their loved one after whatever medical thing was botched up. That wouldn't be a problem with a national healthcare system, because their care would be covered. Medical malpractice suits decrease greatly when a nation adopts a national healthcare system.
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This means layoffs, pay cuts, retirement cuts, unpaid mortgages, unemployment, food stamps, etc. for many workers. They're the only game in town for good jobs.
Originally Posted by slinky1
oh yes, the poor, POOR insurance companies...

why the ones that operate in countries with "socialized" medicine make NO money at all! nope, they generate no profits whatsoever because none of us buy life insurance or car insurance or homeowner's insurance... nope, we don't... it's just terrible...

*snork*
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This means layoffs, pay cuts, retirement cuts, unpaid mortgages, unemployment, food stamps, etc. for many workers. They're the only game in town for good jobs.
Originally Posted by slinky1
oh yes, the poor, POOR insurance companies...

why the ones that operate in countries with "socialized" medicine make NO money at all! nope, they generate no profits whatsoever because none of us buy life insurance or car insurance or homeowner's insurance... nope, we don't... it's just terrible...

*snork*
Originally Posted by rouquinne
LOL.

I don't understand having more sympathy for insurance corporations than for the approximately 50 million people who are uninsured and the millions more who are under-insured and exploited by insurance companies. But I've heard people bring this up a lot.

Worry not, written into HR 676, the single-payer bill with the most support in the US, insurance company workers can opt to be retrained in other areas of healthcare that actually help people and can receive unemployment for 2 years if they need it.

We will need many, many new healthcare positions when national healthcare is instituted, as many more clinics, hospitals, healthcare centers, longterm care facilities, and home care workers will be needed to care for all the people who never go to the doctor now because they can't afford it.

A single-payer system actually creates more jobs than it destroys. It has been studied.
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I found this article really interesting. It argues that the requirement for insurance companies to spend 85% of revenues on patient care will be such a big shock to the insurers that it will ultimately lead to a single-payer system. I am in favor of that.
Originally Posted by sarah42
Yeah, this theory is interesting, and I wish it would happen this easily. And I'm glad another curly supports national healthcare!

But I'm in the camp that suspects that it won't happen "inevitably." There's probably no way to make something so big happen without more of a grassroots movement. But the grassroots movement could greatly expand when people realize how much they will have to pay for how little they will get.

The insurance corporations are so powerful (last I read there were 6 insurance/pharma lobbyists per congressperson, and it's common for congresspeople to leave congress to become insurance/pharma executives) and have lawmakers in their pockets to the degree that I think they will come up with ways around this law. Months ago, they began lobbying to claim some of their advertising, market research costs, etc., as part of patient care instead of part of their profits. They are SNEAKY!
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Last edited by diaspora; 07-08-2012 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Grammar!
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I have sympathy for the workers at insurance companies. Like I said, they employ people with a high school education and give them a decent wage with good benefits and room to grow. Where I live it is that, the hospitals (where pay is crap unless you are a nurse or doc), the schools (where pay is crap unless you are a teacher...and even then...), and the gov't. There are no other jobs outside of Fantastic Sams and Walmart.

I don't know what the job situation is like in Canada or other countries. I don't know if the new system would give the same amount of workers the same comfortable living. I'm just saying that they are a beacon of hope for people around here.

Will these "new" positions be in gov't, where they "empire build" and overpay people? These administrative costs in an area where you don't have to worry about making a profit is frightening in and of itself. You can't have everyone on the dole, because you run out of other people's money to pay them.

Last edited by slinky1; 07-08-2012 at 09:25 PM.
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I don't really feel sorry for the uninsured, because at least now they will have the benefit of getting health insurance after fallling ill without having paid into the system. Well, I do feel sorry for them when they find out how much they'll have to pay once they get sick. Our low income subsidized insurance in this state is going to be $350/month next year for the least expensive carrier (this was presented as a great victory, as a 10% hike was lower than projections and industry averages!). I'd like to see the Feds pull off something significantly lower.

I do feel sorry for the underinsured, because they will remain underinsured, or become moreso. They won't be alone, though, because more will join their ranks as employers either drop coverage or force employees to pay more into their plans.

Last edited by slinky1; 07-08-2012 at 09:27 PM.
I don't know what the job situation is like in Canada or other countries. I don't know if the new system would give the same amount of workers the same comfortable living. I'm just saying that they are a beacon of hope for people around here.
Originally Posted by slinky1
the insurance industry in Canada posts BILLIONS of dollars in profits each year, WITHOUT making their money off the backs of desperately sick people.

and you think those sharks are "beacons of hope"????

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Will these "new" positions be in gov't, where they "empire build" and overpay people?
Originally Posted by slinky1
The jobs will be in healthcare, not government.

Government will not be involved in making medical decisions like insurance companies are, they will just be the single payer, rather than the over 1000 health insurance and public plans we currently have. Healthcare will still be privately delivered, but publicly funded.
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I don't really feel sorry for the uninsured, because at least now they will have the benefit of getting health insurance after fallling ill without having paid into the system. Well, I do feel sorry for them when they find out how much they'll have to pay once they get sick. Our low income subsidized insurance in this state is going to be $350/month next year for the least expensive carrier (this was presented as a great victory, as a 10% hike was lower than projections and industry averages!). I'd like to see the Feds pull off something significantly lower.

I do feel sorry for the underinsured, because they will remain underinsured, or become moreso. They won't be alone, though, because more will join their ranks as employers either drop coverage or force employees to pay more into their plans.
Originally Posted by slinky1
Everyone who has worked on the books has paid into the system (Medicare and Medicaid). That's most people of working age. Those who have not worked, it is usually not by choice. And even if you haven't had a job, you still pay taxes, regressive ones at that, every time you pay sales tax.

I'm happy to have my taxes go towards healthcare for those who are not working or otherwise don't have money, just like I'm happy to have it go to public schools, libraries, fire department... I feel a sense of responsibility for other people. I could need help (I currently need help!), or my family or friends. Plus, it's against everyone's best interest for people to not be walking around sick and contagious.
Formerly Urbancurl.
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Fall/Winter HG=Alba Botanica Soft Hold Style Cream.
Spring/Summer HG=MGA Sculpting Gel
Current fave LI=Madre Labs Made by Nature for Baby Conditioner.
Limit oils, butters, glycerin.

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