Israeli lawmaker tears up New Testament

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so what?

are you trying to start some kind of religious war here? we have enough of those...
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Very tacky.

I could imagine the outcry if a poitician here desecrated the Torah, etc.

I lump people who deride others' religious beliefs or deface others' religious objects in the same category w/ all the other bigots.
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so what?

are you trying to start some kind of religious war here? we have enough of those...
Originally Posted by rouquinne
What's your problem? I'm posting an article to get opinions like people do here all the time. I'm not trying to start any war. If you don't have something nice to say... As a Christian, I'm offended by your "So what?" How would you like it if I said the same flip reply to an issue that concerned you? YOU'RE the only one trying to start probs so bug off.
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Very tacky.

I could imagine the outcry if a poitician here desecrated the Torah, etc.

I lump people who deride others' religious beliefs or deface others' religious objects in the same category w/ all the other bigots.
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
Yeah, I remember when some southern preacher burned a Quran, or was going to, and got death threats and media attention for weeks. I was appalled at that action as I am at this, but strangely not surprised that this is hardly a blip on the radar, at least so far. I hope the offender here at least gets removed from office.
the incident happened in a country founded on different principles from those of your country; a country with no "bill of rights" guaranteeing religious freedom.

and the christian group in question was proselytizing to an orthodox member of parliament - hardly an action that would meet with a different response.

so yes, i think you ARE trying to incite some kind of anti-Jewish sentiment...
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the incident happened in a country founded on different principles from those of your country; a country with no "bill of rights" guaranteeing religious freedom.

and the christian group in question was proselytizing to an orthodox member of parliament - hardly an action that would meet with a different response.

so yes, i think you ARE trying to incite some kind of anti-Jewish sentiment...
Originally Posted by rouquinne
Really? OK. Lol. You are so wrong, and obviously trying to start a feud which I will not partake in. Glad you think a Christian has no right to be offended over the destruction of her Holy Book.... Please don't respond back 'cause I get what you're all about and not havin it.

Also just to say this has nothing to do with Israel or Israel versus the U.S. or the religion of this man. I'm of a minority group, a minority race, so I'm very sensitive to prejudice and don't do well with your crazy allegations or, like I said, your offensive statement to me. That's how it is and again I'd appreciate it if you don't respond to me again if you can't be at least somewhat reasonable.

Last edited by Blackbanjogirl; 07-18-2012 at 09:16 AM.
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This is a very touchy subject, and since we're not allowed to speak freely on the site anymore, I think that the post is asking for trouble.

I would go to a site about old v. new testament faiths if I was genuinely looking for a discussion.

Others here will probably feel differently, but I wouldn't touch this one with a ten foot pole.
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If he were given the bible as a gift or an exchange than I'd say it was a rude and tacky thing to do. According to the article he was given the bible by missionaries. A Christian missionary's job is to convert people to Christianity. So they were either (1) actually trying to convert someone lives in Israel, is Jewish and has a very strong sense of his own faith or (2) being downright insulting.

Although in my opinion 1 and 2 are the same.


Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



If he were given the bible as a gift or an exchange than I'd say it was a rude and tacky thing to do. According to the article he was given the bible by missionaries. A Christian missionary's job is to convert people to Christianity. So they were either (1) actually trying to convert someone lives in Israel, is Jewish and has a very strong sense of his own faith or (2) being downright insulting.

Although in my opinion 1 and 2 are the same.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
But why not just respectfully rufuse the gift/decline the conversion/address the snub?

Why pose for pictures and make a spectacle desecrating a religious text?

What if someone sends him an invitation to attend a service at their church? Should he go to the chuch building and throw rocks at it...bc it was "insulting?"
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Last edited by spiderlashes5000; 07-18-2012 at 09:44 AM.
the incident happened in a country founded on different principles from those of your country; a country with no "bill of rights" guaranteeing religious freedom.

and the christian group in question was proselytizing to an orthodox member of parliament - hardly an action that would meet with a different response.

so yes, i think you ARE trying to incite some kind of anti-Jewish sentiment...
Originally Posted by rouquinne
Wow, I do not understand where you are coming from at all unless you think this is just about jews.

I don't care if the person is jewish, muslim, male, female, black, white, etc. The fact that someone tore up a holy book that was sent to him and then proudly posed for pictures is beyond tacky and very disrespectful.
If he were given the bible as a gift or an exchange than I'd say it was a rude and tacky thing to do. According to the article he was given the bible by missionaries. A Christian missionary's job is to convert people to Christianity. So they were either (1) actually trying to convert someone lives in Israel, is Jewish and has a very strong sense of his own faith or (2) being downright insulting.

Although in my opinion 1 and 2 are the same.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
But why not just respectfully rufuse the gift/decline the conversion/address the snub?

Why pose for pictures and make a spectacle desecrating a religious text?

What if someone sends him an invitation to attend a service at their church? Should he go to the chuch building and throw rocks at it...bc it was "insulting?"
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I can't speak for him, but if I had to guess it would be because he was insulted that they were trying to convert him. Doesn't seem like


Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



Ugh my phone won't let me edit. Doesn't seem like they were giving him a gift so much as trying to prosthletize. (spelling bad)
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Obamacare is not a blueprint for socialism. You're thinking of the New Testament. ~~ John Fugelsang



I'm not surprised by Ben-Ari's reactions. Religious Jews often get super ticked about this sort of thing. It's a whole history behind this that is deep rooted and a sore spot. And I really don't expect non-Jews and in some sense non-religious Jews to fully understand how some Jews take the idea of sending them a NT. Particularly.. sending it to an Israeli Orthodox Jew.

Furthermore, I find it extremely difficult to believe that the person that sent the NT to him didn't know any of this...before hand. I believe it was done to incite rage.
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Ugh my phone won't let me edit. Doesn't seem like they were giving him a gift so much as trying to prosthletize. (spelling bad)
Originally Posted by Springcurl
In ancient Judaism, desecrrating the sabbath and other things holy was like damn near a capital offense. And the desecration of Jewish synoguages during "Kristalnacht" is what officially began the Holocaust.

I find it very hard to believe he didn't think descreating a Christian religious item wouldn't incite an uproar.

Gift or no gift, desecrating someone's religious objects is a serious offense and is generally recognized as such.

So he's asking for trouble (esp considering all the support Israel receives from the US).

Just a ahole move all around.
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I think he could have handled it better. But I feel the missionaries were dead a$$ wrong. They knew what they were doing. It would be like sending 20 lbs of veal to a vegan.


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Originally Posted by Blackbanjogirl
I think BOTH parties are in the wrong. Christian missionaries were disrespectful to send this man a NT knowing his beliefs, and he was disrespectful to address it this way. I think he absolutely could have called the missionaries out on this behaviour, but without ripping up a holy book of another faith. However, because it was provoked, I don't see this reaction as being the same as the burning of the Qu'ran, which was not provoked and was in itself an inflammatory action.

I don't believe the Bible is responsible for the suffering of Jews. It is the actions of human beings using the Bible as an excuse/reason that did that - and did that for many other groups of people, including Jews, and many groups that are Christians today and read the Bible.

It appals me that Christian groups today still actively try to convert people of other faiths - have we learned nothing? That is just wrong. And given the recent history of the Jewish people, it should be obvious that that would be an unwelcome and offensive act. I have no time for Christians like that.

I also don't see anything wrong with this as a discussion topic.
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If he were given the bible as a gift or an exchange than I'd say it was a rude and tacky thing to do. According to the article he was given the bible by missionaries. A Christian missionary's job is to convert people to Christianity. So they were either (1) actually trying to convert someone lives in Israel, is Jewish and has a very strong sense of his own faith or (2) being downright insulting.

Although in my opinion 1 and 2 are the same.
Originally Posted by Springcurl
But why not just respectfully rufuse the gift/decline the conversion/address the snub?

Why pose for pictures and make a spectacle desecrating a religious text?

What if someone sends him an invitation to attend a service at their church? Should he go to the chuch building and throw rocks at it...bc it was "insulting?"
Originally Posted by spiderlashes5000
I'm not surprised by Ben-Ari's reactions. Religious Jews often get super ticked about this sort of thing. It's a whole history behind this that is deep rooted and a sore spot. And I really don't expect non-Jews and in some sense non-religious Jews to fully understand how some Jews take the idea of sending them a NT. Particularly.. sending it to an Israeli Orthodox Jew.

Furthermore, I find it extremely difficult to believe that the person that sent the NT to him didn't know any of this...before hand. I believe it was done to incite rage.
Originally Posted by *Marah*
SC and Marah both put it well. And I think Amneris' post is 100% correct.

If being black were something you could convert from and white people in the US were trying to convert black people telling them that being white is better... I think it would be the same feeling of insult. Certainly to me being Christian is simply not an option because of my beliefs, but if you're Orthodox, living in a country founded after the near-annihilation of your people, with an attempt to eradicate your religion as a significant even leading to it? And you're less than 100 years from those times? Yeah, it's going to be way beyond simply "insulting."

That said, I do think it was the incorrect reaction. While I think of the New Testament as a work of fiction personally, I would not show the disrespect to all followers of the religion he did. I just don't think it compares to attacking a religion in the same way Quran burnings do because of the personal insult which instigated it. It was still an incorrect behavior, though.
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