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Old 08-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #21
 
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Not this guy. There was no preventing this.

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My understanding is this guy was on some watch lists that marked him as a neo-nazi. I wouldn't be so black-and-white about whether this could have been prevented.
It was said by the organization profiling him. He said there is a tiny group of ppl who will act on their racist feelings.

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Yes, I know. But as I said, it's not so black and white as to whether or not this could have been prevented.
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Old 08-07-2012, 04:54 PM   #22
 
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My understanding is this guy was on some watch lists that marked him as a neo-nazi. I wouldn't be so black-and-white about whether this could have been prevented.
It was said by the organization profiling him. He said there is a tiny group of ppl who will act on their racist feelings.

I'm cashing out
Yes, I know. But as I said, it's not so black and white as to whether or not this could have been prevented.
I'm curious. What do you suppose could have been done to prevent this man from committing this particular crime?

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Old 08-07-2012, 05:05 PM   #23
 
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It was said by the organization profiling him. He said there is a tiny group of ppl who will act on their racist feelings.

I'm cashing out
Yes, I know. But as I said, it's not so black and white as to whether or not this could have been prevented.
I'm curious. What do you suppose could have been done to prevent this man from committing this particular crime?

I'm cashing out

You are mistaking me. There MAY have been nothing that could have been done. But there also may HAVE been something. I'm merely commenting on your "case closed" kind of statement that nothing could have been done.
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:14 PM   #24
 
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It was said by the organization profiling him. He said there is a tiny group of ppl who will act on their racist feelings.

I'm cashing out
Yes, I know. But as I said, it's not so black and white as to whether or not this could have been prevented.
I'm cashing out
I have several ideas:

1) Severely restrict access to firearms for him and others - if not for everyone, at least for people like him

2) Designate him a dangerous offender at risk to re-offend, and get a court order that he has to report in weekly as to whether he is in therapy, subject him to weapons checks, etc.

3) Profile, track and highly scrutinize the activities of white supremacist groups
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:19 PM   #25
 
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I agree these things can be done. I don't think they could have been done, maybe #2 but I doubt it because he lived in Wisconsin.
Profiling is already used unfairly against African Americans & minorities. I would prefer to decrease profiling altogether. Its not right.

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Old 08-07-2012, 05:24 PM   #26
 
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I agree these things can be done. I don't think they could have been done, maybe #2 but I doubt it because he lived in Wisconsin.
Profiling is already used unfairly against African Americans & minorities. I would prefer to decrease profiling altogether. Its not right.

I'm cashing out
Profiling is OK if done properly. When done against minorities just because they are minorities, that's not right. When done against dangerous groups known to sometimes spark violence where the issue is membership in the group and not personal attributes people can't change, I have absolutely no issues with it - that's how it SHOULD be used. And which would you rather - profiling that could actually save lives, or throwing up your hands and saying there's nothing you can do?
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Old 08-07-2012, 05:33 PM   #27
 
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I dont get it. Sigh...
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Old 08-08-2012, 05:52 AM   #28
 
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I can't link the image for some reason, but has anyone seen the picture with the stats for gun use:
Last year gun use killed
48 people in Japan
8 people in Great Britain
34 in Switzerland
52 in Canada
58 in Israel
21 in Sweden
42 in West Germany
10,728 in the US

Then it has a picture of a gun with the American flag painted on it. I think those numbers, or even similar numbers speak volumes about the gun laws in America. Scary stuff.

Sent from my "smart" phone, 'scuse crazy typos.
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Old 08-08-2012, 08:59 AM   #29
 
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I keep reading articles that say things like, "well sikhs are easily mistaken for muslims, so..."

Like it's okay to shoot Muslims?! The hell?
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Old 08-08-2012, 09:10 AM   #30
 
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I keep reading articles that say things like, "well sikhs are easily mistaken for muslims, so..."

Like it's okay to shoot Muslims?! The hell?
RIGHT??!?!?! Victim blaming is like this country's past time.


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Old 08-08-2012, 09:12 AM   #31
 
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I keep reading articles that say things like, "well sikhs are easily mistaken for muslims, so..."

Like it's okay to shoot Muslims?! The hell?
I caught that too. Its offensive Especially during Ramadan.

I knew someone in high school who is sikh. He was the nicest kid ever. They strike me as very pleasant people. I can't imagine why anyone would target them. But since 9/11 its happened a lot. It shows the level of ignorance that exists when it comes to religion.
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Old 08-08-2012, 10:23 AM   #32
 
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I agree these things can be done. I don't think they could have been done, maybe #2 but I doubt it because he lived in Wisconsin.
Profiling is already used unfairly against African Americans & minorities. I would prefer to decrease profiling altogether. Its not right.

I'm cashing out
Profiling is OK if done properly. When done against minorities just because they are minorities, that's not right. When done against dangerous groups known to sometimes spark violence where the issue is membership in the group and not personal attributes people can't change, I have absolutely no issues with it - that's how it SHOULD be used. And which would you rather - profiling that could actually save lives, or throwing up your hands and saying there's nothing you can do?
OMG yes. That is the whole point of profiling. Profiling behavior patterns...not skin colors.

(So much common sense is lost in our quest to be liberal-minded and laissez fair!)
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Old 08-08-2012, 04:01 PM   #33
 
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I agree these things can be done. I don't think they could have been done, maybe #2 but I doubt it because he lived in Wisconsin.
Profiling is already used unfairly against African Americans & minorities. I would prefer to decrease profiling altogether. Its not right.

I'm cashing out
Profiling is OK if done properly. When done against minorities just because they are minorities, that's not right. When done against dangerous groups known to sometimes spark violence where the issue is membership in the group and not personal attributes people can't change, I have absolutely no issues with it - that's how it SHOULD be used. And which would you rather - profiling that could actually save lives, or throwing up your hands and saying there's nothing you can do?
OMG yes. That is the whole point of profiling. Profiling behavior patterns...not skin colors.

(So much common sense is lost in our quest to be liberal-minded and laissez fair!)
Its not a loss of common sense. Its the common sense fact that we don't live in an ideal world where profiling can be carried out without bias. So many law enforcement programs have failed (ie stop & frisk, fast & furious). The NYPD called themselves "profiling" Muslims in NJ clearly outside their jurisdiction illegally. The LAPD has shown us time & time again they can't handle profiling.

The FBI & CIA profile organizations all the time. If they can train local & state law enforcement agencies on how to execute hate group profiling successfully & evaluate their performance & check for biased officers it could be effective.



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Old 08-08-2012, 07:22 PM   #34
 
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When discussing gun use in the United States in comparison to other countries it's important to factor in gang culture, and it's important to note that people with criminal mindsets aren't really the type to let the law limit them.

If you consider gun violence (and that's better than use, as suicides factors heavily into 'use') carried out by otherwise law abiding citizens, I seriously doubt the statistics would be as stark.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:31 PM   #35
 
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There aren't gangs/organized criminals in other countries?

Wouldn't gun violence by a law abiding citizen make them potentially criminal?



Sounds like the build more jails faster argument to me. I believe the US has more jails/prisons than other countries, too. It's not working so hot for us either.
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Old 08-08-2012, 07:55 PM   #36
 
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Those prisons cost a lot to operate. I also believe in many of the major gun crimes these days in the US, legally purchased guns were used.

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Old 08-09-2012, 01:43 AM   #37
 
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Originally Posted by Narnia View Post
I can't link the image for some reason, but has anyone seen the picture with the stats for gun use:
Last year gun use killed
48 people in Japan
8 people in Great Britain
34 in Switzerland
52 in Canada
58 in Israel
21 in Sweden
42 in West Germany
10,728 in the US

Then it has a picture of a gun with the American flag painted on it. I think those numbers, or even similar numbers speak volumes about the gun laws in America. Scary stuff.

Sent from my "smart" phone, 'scuse crazy typos.
The numbers are scary, and as I stated in the Colorado thread, I believe stricter laws need to be in place.

You do have to be careful with these stats though. Every article out there gives different numbers for the past few years. They range from 8000 in 2010 (not specifying if it's injuries, accidental shootings, police shootings, murders, etc...) with 69% in California, to an extreme 100,000 last year. Again, lumping all supposed gun related crime into the death category.

Other charts were posted on the Colorado thread showing assault rates, not specifically gun related crime, and showing other countries with guns as ones where they are banned. From some information I read we lead in gun related injuries, again with many factors, but not death.

Who knows!

There is a great deal of confusing and inaccurate statistics floating around out there. I wish they would get it straight.

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Old 08-09-2012, 02:32 AM   #38
 
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Statistics are often manipulated to support the argument of one side in an issue. In this case gun lobbyist probably pay a pretty penny for their own "facts" to compete with the harsh realities of gun violence in America

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Old 08-09-2012, 04:30 AM   #39
 
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Not a fan of those stats. Compare the US with any country with strict gun laws and we look like a bunch of hooligans. I'm shocked that in a country of our size, with our population, and our gun laws, that number is not higher. I am a gun owner but I'm not necessarily against stricter laws in our country but I doubt that will happen. Americans are too attached to their guns.

I do feel terrible about what happened at the Sikh temple. It is a shame what that man did.

And it is Wisconsin. Not Wisconson.
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Old 08-09-2012, 07:26 AM   #40
 
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Statistics are often manipulated to support the argument of one side in an issue. In this case gun lobbyist probably pay a pretty penny for their own "facts" to compete with the harsh realities of gun violence in America

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Oh yeah. That's clearly evident by the stats in the absurdly high range, with little to no clarification.

I lean to the left on a majority of issues. I have few exceptions. I could never support a ban on guns, and I have my reasons that don't involve harming others. I don't care for dreamt up stats used to induce panic.

Even FBI research is incomplete and not broken down into specific categories or incidents, which it should be.

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